Ireland World Cup 2019 Thread aka "Quarter Final 4"

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by The Alpha Bro, May 19, 2019.

  1. BobbyM

    BobbyM Academy Player

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    Now now your contention was that South Africa don’t “import” players who then become springboks. I’ve given a number of examples where they have done just that. Adrian Garvey is another one just to toss into the mix, actually represented another country but brought to SA for better life became naturalised and played for the Springboks.

    I don’t really follow your logic here I’m afraid. You suggested that Russia wouldn’t bring in players and naturalise them to then play for their country (i.e. they won’t “dilute” their national side). I noted that rugby is amateur in Russia so economically speaking there is very little that they could offer to entice players to play for them, as opposed to say the offer to play in South Africa for players from other parts Africa.

    However, to give a fairer comparison of situation, I considered a professional sport in Russia, namely football, where there has been activities to bring foreigners in and naturalise them. The success of the Russian national team is irrelevant (by in large) to the amount of money and quality of life a player moving there can get.

    The Russia team (presumably we mean post USSR) have qualified for Euro 2012 finals, topped their group to qualify for WC2014, qualified for Euro 2016 finals and got to the last 8 of WC2018, so I am not sure “Russian team has been garbage for decades save for 1 tournament in 2008” is factual. You suggested using Russian football as an example of how Russians approach professional team sports was “silly”, why is that?
     
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  3. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Yer man is a spoofer, clear as day. Can we get this out of the Irish world cup thread, we've bigger things to discuss. For example - would anyone watching think Greg O'Shea has done enough to get the call up as the 31st man? Can't say I've kept up with him but I'm hearing big things.
     
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  4. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    31st????? A cert for the 11 jersey.
     
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  5. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    Can I ask on this fast & logic point. What difference does a matter of education make to point of connection.
    I did part of my studies in Calgary Canada. Because it was better for my education. Does this make me more a Canadian than most?
    And in your own top point you kind of contradict yourself. Krige was born in Zambia but played his club rugby in SA.
    Nel played his club rugby in Scotland. Whether a man captains a team or not is irrelevant. Most players from Zambia or anywhere are also mercenaries in the same way. If you live and work in South Africa you are still allowed play for your home country. Why didn't they???
    Because of a better prospect financially and personally. So as you say you're playing loosely with facts but it can't be denied.
    Sergio Parisse played for Italy over Argentina because at the time it was more financially beneficial to him. And he has said that. He also held a great affiliation through his parents but the point being he picked what was best for his career at the time. Isa Nacewa is probably another example in the opposite way of risk.
     
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  6. Groundhog

    Groundhog #1 Cuck

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    Greg O'Shea has the good looks, toight abs, soft Limerick accent and respect for women to go all away in the arena of love and rugby. Those skills are very transferable
     
  7. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 International

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  8. Jockstap

    Jockstap First XV

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  9. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    I think Farrell is almost certain and if Addison goes it will be instead of Conway.
    Kilcoyne wIll be ahead of McGrath I feel.
    Ruddock will not go. Not a hope. Jordi has been much better and I not a Jordi fan. Also he covers backrow much better
    Beirne vs Kleyn will be an interesting call
     
  10. Jockstap

    Jockstap First XV

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    Id pick Ruddock over Murphy for the same reasons he picked Kleyn over Beirne.
     
  11. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I'd be happy with either Ruddock or Murphy. I know we've used a traditional 7 for a lot of our recent success (I include Leavy in that despite him being far more than just a traditional 7) but prior to the emergence of VdF in 2016 you probably have to go back to Keith Gleeson to find the last regular starter in that mould. POM or Ruddock filling in there is fine with me and certainly capable of beating SA and maybe NZ in a QF, VdF is one of the players I think we stand more or less no chance of winning the tournament if forced to play consecutive knockout games without him.

    If Farrell goes, I'd want him in Conway's place in that squad, I think it's an easy decision to make too.
     
  12. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    Ahreed on VdF as he is a proper 7.
    On Jordi. I just think he is a better player and offers more than Ruddock. Not knocking Rhys as if he goes he will do well just think Jordi is the better player. Kleyn vs Beirne is a call that is interesting as 1 offers versatility and something different. The other is the tighthead side we lack and why Roux was a vital squad player. Also think a Kleyn style would add hard faced edge too which will help.

    On backs I can't see Farrell not going to be honest. Offers something much more different to others and is best 13 behind Ringrose. Addison I think may be in straight shoot with Conway. And think Henshaw is still being viewed as a 15 option and may play there in August
     
  13. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    Rory Scannell and Ultan Dillane are the first 2 to be cut. 45 is down to 43
     
  14. Leinster Fan

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    Just some random thoughts

    • Beirne over Kleyn everyday for me. Don't think we were ever particularly well off with Roux on the pitch and while Kleyn is better I think he just influences a game less than Beirne, before you even mention versatility. If we go for an 18-13 split Kleyn could be in with a shot but I'd much prefer Beirne. It's not like we don't have physical locks in Henderson and Ryan, both of whom are massively superior ball carriers to Kleyn.
    • Jack McGrath was third choice for Leinster last season and deservedly so, the idea that he should be anywhere near the plane is just silly. I've given out about Kilcoyne many times but to fair he's more earned his spot.
    • I'm surprised there's much debate about hookers; Best, Scannell and Crpnin are easily the best three in the country. You can argue over the pecking order between those guys but Herring doesn't get near them for me.
    • Murphy over Ruddock for me, they're about as good as each other and Jordi is far more versatile, not to mention that we need a 7 much more than a 6. Vdf and Jordi are pretty much the only sevens left (although others could definitely do a job there if needed), while as cover for POM we have Stander, Henderson and probably Beirne. Equally we could take 5 locks ans use Beirne and Henderson as the back row cover but I think it's too attrional a position not to take 5 designated players to the world cup. At the end of the day without overthinking it it's just incredibly useful to have a player like Murphy who'd comfortable in all three backrow positions and can slot in anywhere at what will be a long and attrional tournament.
    • I don't think Chris Farrell is needed to be honest even though I'm a fan of him. He's a quality player but nowhere near Ringrose and Schmidt has shown that his preference with Garry out is probably 12. Aki 13. Henshaw and you while you can definitely argue over whether that's the right call I don't think Farrell adds enough to that midfield to justify a spot on the plane. Aki-Henshaw is a really one-dimensional partnership that we should try to avoid but I don't think Farrell solves that. The main three centres plus Addison would be enough for me.
    • It looks like we're probably going to end up with only two outhalves but I'd like to see us go with three and split use Carbery as fullback cover as well (I've accepted that this won't actually happen but I can dream). I'd also be more confident in Ross Byrne than anyone else if Sexton went down but I can deal with the fact that he won't go because him being with Leinster during that time period is probably worth about 10 league points minimum (he's that good).
    • I don't buy the idea that Cooney can fill in at 10, he never does it at Ulster but he'll be fine to do it on the biggest stage in the sport? If Sexton gets injured against Scotland but will still be fit to play some part in the knockouts he'll stay with the squad and that'll leave us only Carbery to get us to that point and he'll have to play almost every minute until Sexton is fit again (Cooney will only realistically come in in one of the later pool games to close it out if the score is heavily lopsided).
    • I don't see how we need Conway, Addison and Larmour. The first choice back three + the three main centres + Larnour and Addison is enough cover for me.
    • I like Luke McGrath but Murray, Marmion and Cooney should he the three (if we take three) SHs going.

    That's my two cents, not that it's worth anything.
     
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  15. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Agree with literally everything you’ve said.
     
  16. Groundhog

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    I agree with you entirely, but I still think Kleyn will go. Can't say I understand the intricacies of tighthead lock vs loosehead, but Schmidt seems to set a lot of stall by it.

    We are uniquely lucky to have zero injuries to genuine contenders at the moment and lots of quality to step in. Need to use these warmups to knock off the rust while seriously managing workload of certain players, especially those back to backs against Wales.
    Also unrelated I found this googling about warmups.
    Screenshot_20190807-092818.jpg
    Southern hemisphere btfo yet again.
     
  17. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Groundhog

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    Dan Leavy is a poor man's Dave O'Callaghan. I said genuine contenders.
     
  19. munstermuffin

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    Not a bad analysis but on each point I'd comment.
    1. Agree on Beirne vs Kleyn comments if it is more the obvious stuff but Kleyn does impact games hugely in a defensive manner and stats show that. However the reason everyone thinks he will go is more as I believe this is a Kleyn vs Roux as oppose Beirne. Schmidt loves the TH lock that is physically a brute and history suggests that.
    2. I fully agree on Kilcoyne ahead of Jack. But would note Jack lost form that made him 3rd choice for Leinster. Can he get it back is the goal.
    3. Fully agree on this. Also Jordi is a much better 7 is where the spot is more needed than 6 or 8.
    4. Again fully agree but again it is more a case of attrition. Ringrose is obviously our best 13 but Farrell is our 2nd best and does give something different too. Addison will be seen as a gamble but capable of course.
    5. I'd disagree and say Joey has actually improved hugely from being a starter and has kicked on to being clear number 2 and possibly will be ushered in to being #1 after the RWC.
    6. Cooney has filled in at 10 for Ulster in games over last 2 seasons and is very capable. Also Murray has and Ringrose has been mentioned as a possible option at 10 in a game.
    7. The question on depth is more attrition. Yes we will have an easy pool but how physical will it be.

    Also history will suggest 1 or 2 will miss out due to injury sustained in the warm ups.
     
  20. Leinster Fan

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    I agree that Kleyn is a quality player and that he's the type of guy that Schmidt loves, if we take 5 locks in an 18-13 split or whatever I won't be complaining about him going, I just think the other four locks are better players.

    To be fair to McGrath IF (and it's a huge if) hs can get his form back he strolls onto the plane but it's been so long since he showed anything more than flashes of.his best without any consistency that I've lost hope for the near future. As it stands he'll have a battle on his hands to get the No.1 shirt at Ulster. It's possible that Joe doesn't fully trust Killer and might be reluctant to take him as one of only two LHs (and presumably the same on the other side with Porter).

    I think the three main centres + the first choice back three + Larmour and Addison is enough to get us through a world cup. If there are significant concerns over Addison's fitness though then that obviously isn't viable and we should take Farrell and one Addison/Conway in that case.

    I can't say I'd feel particularly confident in us taking only Sexton and Carbery as actual 10s to Japan. Neither have good injury records and while I'm fine with Cooney or whoever's ability to cover for half an hour against Russia etc but if we need more than that from them we're in serious trouble. Ross Byrne is the ultimate backup 10, he's never flustered and he won't let the pressure of a World cup get to him. He's a complete pair of safe hands (which is underselling him really) which is crucial for a backup, not to mention that he's spent far more time playing 10 than anyone else for the team that's one three trophies in two years. I love Joey as a player and he's definitely improved at Munster but tbh I haven't seen any kind if vast transformation in his game. He definitely isn't showing the kind of form that demands consideration for the Ireland 10 jersey. Over the balance of the last few seasons Byrne and Carty have both been better at 10, I've no issue with Carbery being second choice but he's really not that much better than the guys behind him (he was third choice 10 at Leinster for a reason). I'd just feel far more confident in our chances if we have a third 10 there, particularly if it's Ross Byrne. Can't say I'd be delighted to see either Murray or Ringrose playing 10, they both have the game and the talent for it (they can both kick goals, have half-decent kicking games, good distribution/vision) but either playing there means we're wasting one of our best players by squeezing them into a position they won't be entirely comfortable with, we'll be significant worse off at both 10 AND 9/13 if it happens.

    I think we've got a decent pool for physical attrition, Russia and Samoa will be tough but for the two biggest games we're up against Scotland and Japan, they'll both be tricky games but not the most physically gruelling as most.

    Obviously injuries during warm ups are sadly inevitable and will render a lot of these debates irrelevant.

    Anyway my dream RWC squad would be

    LH: Healy, Kilcoyne
    Hooker: Best, Cronin, Scannell
    TH: Furlong, Porter, Ryan
    Lock: Ryan, Toner, Henderson, Beirne
    Backrow: Van der Flier, Stander, O'Mahony, Conan, Murphy
    SH: Murray, Marmion, Cooney
    OH: Sexton, Carbery, Byrne
    Centre: Henshaw, Ringrose, Aki
    Back three: Stockdale, Kearney, Earls, Larmour, Addison
     
  21. munstermuffin

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    Rumours swirling that Toner and Jack McGrath have been told it is unlikely they will go. McGrath based on his past few months seems to be expected but Toner is an interesting rumour.
     
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