Kelleher: S14 is poor, NH better

[Jer1cho]

Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.[/b]

Well, South Africa has a population of about 45million. Rugby is 95% a white dominated sport. So take the 5miillion white people in South Africa, and add another million to compensate for the tiny black population that takes interest in rugby.

Then divide that by about half (to compensate for the female white population) and you have 3million potential rugby players... Then, i would say around 1/3rd of them have no interest in the game whatsoever.....

Then boom, you have like 2million people in South Africa to play rugby... So it's a void argument really...

 

[Gay-Guy]

Well if we had population size success ratio then Fiji would be the world champions followed by Samoa. However sports is not judged by that....it is simply judged by the winners and the losers.

Ireland could go on about how they do quite well against the AB's despite their population....but they still lost...NZ could go on about how they beat the British Lions....but really no one cares about the population in the end...all they care about is the final score.



Back on topic.....



If money was not the issue then Kelleher would not have moved up north. No NZ player goes to play NH rugby because they want harder competition. They go for the money. When Dan Carter goes up north it is for the money...though the NZRFU is saying it is because he needs a "sabbatical"....there is no hint that says he is going there to toughen himself up because NZ rugby is not doing it for his playing levels.



There have been NH players who talk about wanting to play in NZ but alas..the money here really does suck majorly lol!

 

[mark_shaw]

i mean dont get me wrong. i dont want to be narrow minding, but i have played rugby in both hemispheres. and the rugby up there is just a little simple for my liking. sure you might win the odd game against us. but everyone loses. youtube super 14 greatest trys V europes. make ya own mind up. go the under 20s. hammerd ireland today aswell and played f***n well!

 

[sanzar]

Anyway, allow me to fill you in. The best school teams come from the Public Schools. They hire ex-army or Royal Marine Commando guys to be the PE or PT teachers and thus the coaches. Those schools spend their weekends (remember, these are mostly boarding schools) running up hills with bags of rocks on their backs, doing intense cardio work and generally beating the team into a high level of fitness upon which they then go hard into rugby training. These guys are usually where the future England stars come from traditionally.

The competetiveness goes usually beyond hiring ex-millitary to do the training. Theres lots of psychological elements. For example, they'll introduce visiting teams to the "field" they'll be playing on. Here, the team have purposely spead broken glass, shrredded coke cans and other sharp and nasty stuff across the field. Obviously, they move to the real pitch (free of anything sharp) but its that first impression which scares the crap out of the visiting team.
[/b]

****! We have some nut bag rich rugby schools in Aus (notably Kings and Joeys - who both have their own bloody rowing teams + 12 rugyb fields etc), but nothing as psychotic as that... Maybe that's why England haven't been awefully successful though? I still remember the dismal failure of the massively militant approach of the 2003 Springboks (players being forced to crawl through jungle naked and at gunpoint etc), which in the aftermath was seen as a cause of widespread burnout and disinterest in the springbok camp.

 

[claytonkp]

totally agree the new laws **** me off i dont like rugby league and thats what union is becoming.

 

[candybum]

No its not ya marnus

 

[KZNSharksFan]

No its not ya marnus
[/b]

Hahahaha! Don't drink and drive(kiwi joke)

Anyway, the standard of rugby in SH is better than in the NH, basically because I say so. As proof of this watch how Butch James and Victor Matfield played against the AB's-They were pure arse. I know they had to play with new rules, but ****, how mentally challenging can it be to stand 10 metres back at the scrum???

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotemain'>
Anyway, allow me to fill you in. The best school teams come from the Public Schools. They hire ex-army or Royal Marine Commando guys to be the PE or PT teachers and thus the coaches. Those schools spend their weekends (remember, these are mostly boarding schools) running up hills with bags of rocks on their backs, doing intense cardio work and generally beating the team into a high level of fitness upon which they then go hard into rugby training. These guys are usually where the future England stars come from traditionally.

The competetiveness goes usually beyond hiring ex-millitary to do the training. Theres lots of psychological elements. For example, they'll introduce visiting teams to the "field" they'll be playing on. Here, the team have purposely spead broken glass, shrredded coke cans and other sharp and nasty stuff across the field. Obviously, they move to the real pitch (free of anything sharp) but its that first impression which scares the crap out of the visiting team.
[/b]

****! We have some nut bag rich rugby schools in Aus (notably Kings and Joeys - who both have their own bloody rowing teams + 12 rugyb fields etc), but nothing as psychotic as that... Maybe that's why England haven't been awefully successful though? I still remember the dismal failure of the massively militant approach of the 2003 Springboks (players being forced to crawl through jungle naked and at gunpoint etc), which in the aftermath was seen as a cause of widespread burnout and disinterest in the springbok camp.
[/b][/quote]

Well, there is a distinct difference from sending the England team for a nice weekend with the 42 Commando or 3 Para and the South Africans sending them to what was essentially a Recces death camp. We tend to use the forces to observe how a team functions, team building exercises and so on, they don't really stray far from your average exercise area. In any case, what happened to the Boks in 2003 would be illeigal in the UK under health & safety legislation.

I think the major downfall is that while these guys are in the right shape and frame of mind, there just isn't the intensive teaching of basic skills.

 

[DonBilly]

Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.
[/b]

UK has a bit more than 60 millions people, 52 miillions of them must be English.

 

[Prestwick]

France meanwhile have 500 million people: 10 million real people and 490 made up names created to defraud the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotemain'>
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.
[/b]

UK has a bit more than 60 millions people, 52 miillions of them must be English.
[/b][/quote]
3 million in Wales, 6 million in Scotland, 1 million in NI. More, but not by much!!

 

[DonBilly]

France meanwhile have 500 million people: 10 million real people and 490 made up names created to defraud the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). [/b]

Officially there are 64 million people in France. If the farmers managed to declare 436 millions fake persons to the EU commission this would show the Brussels guys don't travel that much...

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
Basically what I am saying is that in a country of 4 million people, were sports are divided so much between Soccer, Rugby, and Gaa it amazing we can come with in 10 points of the All Blacks. However in England a country of 75 million or so, with only really soccer to compete (cricket is a summer sport) you have no excuse..... <-- jks.
[/b]

UK has a bit more than 60 millions people, 52 miillions of them must be English.
[/b][/quote]
3 million in Wales, 6 million in Scotland, 1 million in NI. More, but not by much!!
[/b][/quote]

And what about the 1 million Poles?

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotemain'> France meanwhile have 500 million people: 10 million real people and 490 made up names created to defraud the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). [/b]

Officially there are 64 million people in France. If the farmers managed to declare 436 millions fake persons to the EU commission this would show the Brussels guys don't travel that much...
[/b][/quote]

Of course they do, its just that they can't see that much from that business class seat whisking them back to their Euro-parliament constituency/luxurious 2nd home apart from nice French countryside.

 

[Incredible Schalk]

Its just above 5 million in Scotland.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Stop with population demographics. Them Southern Hemi people are right it makes no great difference. It all goes down to who has the best development system. And it's clearly done better down under.

Now back to the point. We've never seen a Super 14's team play a HCup team and we probably won't for quite a while though the idea siunds most delightful. Take four from each hemi and have a quick tourny over two to three weeks (straight into knock out rounds) and see what happens. But it won't happen.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 18 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Now back to the point. We've never seen a Super 14's team play a HCup team and we probably won't for quite a while though the idea siunds most delightful. Take four from each hemi and have a quick tourny over two to three weeks (straight into knock out rounds) and see what happens. But it won't happen.[/b]

It happened once, Brive (H-cup winners in 1997) played the Auckland Blues who had won the then Super12, they were dominated and lost by more than 20 points as far as I remember.

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[bates]

Well, you can't compare both leagueges with eachother.

If I'm not mistaken, in NZ teams have own youthplayers from their surrounding regions, 95% of the kids play rugby inNZ so there's a lot of competetion going on there to get into a team and stay in the team. In Europe rugby is a growning sport were Soccer still is the unbeatable n°1.

So it all starts at the beginning, I reckon there are more kids in the UK, Europe who have more technique in soccer than in the SH and the same goes for rugby ( but then the other way around)

It's a matter of interest.

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jul 9 2008, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And what about the 1 million Poles?[/b]

Yeah, is there some sort of commission to take back Britain and Ireland? I swear there were no English People in London. Dublin is headed there, which I imagine will slowly kill the American Tourism industry, "We went to Ireland to connect to our roots and all we got were Eastern Europeans who couldn't tell us where to buy a Claddagh ring."

 

[Gay-Guy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Sep 19 2008, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 18 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now back to the point. We've never seen a Super 14's team play a HCup team and we probably won't for quite a while though the idea siunds most delightful. Take four from each hemi and have a quick tourny over two to three weeks (straight into knock out rounds) and see what happens. But it won't happen.[/b]

It happened once, Brive (H-cup winners in 1997) played the Auckland Blues who had won the then Super12, they were dominated and lost by more than 20 points as far as I remember.

<div align='center'>

</div>

[/b][/quote]
47 - 11 was the score. Feb 22 1997

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

"It was like spending 80 minutes in a washing machine," Brive's captain, Alain Penaud, said after the New Zealand side ran in six tries to one.
"It was like being run over by a bus a hundred times."
"The 101st time, the tackling gets a bit clumsy."[/b]

The Blues were bnrought back to earth very quickly the next week when they started the S12 by managing a draw against the Bulls.

 

[Steve-o]

Lol! A washmachine?
Interesting choice of words