Life after Eddie …

[TRF_Olyy]

Plus it takes a while for new front rowers to really bed in at international level. Depends really on how the next generation are getting on.

This is what I was thinking - McGuigan would be an international newbie, same as any youngster, so a new coach might want to bring through someone younger rather than invest time into a player who could see a downturn in form/uptick in injuries by the time the RWC rolls around

I'd still have him involved, though, tbf, especially with LCD taking himself out of contention

 

[Geordie]

Post WC (End of October, and for 6n 2024), there'll actually be quite a turnover I would think...

Confirmed outs - contracts abroad
LCD
Nowell
Simmonds

Probable Outs
Mako,
Billy
Manu
Watson
May
Youngs

Possibles - May stay / may go dependant on form
Lawes
Jamie George
Johnny Hill - Youngsters coming through WILL challenge him

Then theres the Farrell question...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd still have him involved, though, tbf, especially with LCD taking himself out of contention

I wasn't clear but was predominantly thinking of moving him on from starter. If he remains available then yes have him involved in some capacity certainly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Possibles - May stay / may go dependant on form
Lawes

Johnny Hill - Youngsters coming through WILL challenge him

I reckon Lawes is done tbh - I'd be surprised if he comes back from his latest concussion issues, realistically he shouldn't

Not so sure on Hill - the only tighthead lock we really have on the radar is Isiekwe, and I can't think of any youngsters really standing out there

 

[Geordie]

I reckon Lawes is done tbh - I'd be surprised if he comes back from his latest concussion issues, realistically he shouldn't

Not so sure on Hill - the only tighthead lock we really have on the radar is Isiekwe, and I can't think of any youngsters really standing out there

Think Ribbans and Tizzard will be two challenging for that role. I hope Ribbans take the spot from now on to be honest.

I think Lawes will be done also to be fair.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think Ribbans and Tizzard will be two challenging for that role. I hope Ribbans take the spot from now on to be honest.

I think Lawes will be done also to be fair.

Yeah, true - Tizzard is highly rated but I don't see it yet tbh,
Still very young though, and playing with/learning from Itoje and Isiekwe won't hurt his development

 

[big ginger 8]

Ronan O'Gara 'had contact from RFU' but rules himself out of running for England job https://the42.ie/5935845

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I reckon Lawes is done tbh - I'd be surprised if he comes back from his latest concussion issues, realistically he shouldn't

Not so sure on Hill - the only tighthead lock we really have on the radar is Isiekwe, and I can't think of any youngsters really standing out there

I'd take Isiekwe over Hill any day. His work in the air is the best we have whether at restarts or attacking opposition line outs. I've seen him standing next to Itoje at Sarries and he's a properly big unit - tall and broad. Generally happier doing the dirty stuff than the flashy stuff and makes his weight felt. Like everyone he has his work ons, but assuming he comes back OK, invest in him and you have a potentially world class lock on your hands in the Kruis mould. I genuinely think he has that potential, which Jones set back by picking him too early then dumping him. Covering 6 is a bonus and has probably helped his development, but internationally he's a lock all day long.

A lot like Chessum and he might complement Isiekwe well. Itoje has a spot nailed down at the moment but there's general consensus we haven't seen the best of him for a while and while he'll probably be unchallenged under Jones, post RWC all bets are off.

Post RWC I also wouldn't be surprised to see Itoje go abroad for a couple of years to bank the cash. He'll be 29 and clubs will be prepared to chuck shedloads at him. Perhaps returning in time to try a final RWC tilt in 27.

Like Olyy I've not really seen it in Tizzard yet either.

 

[Geordie]

I do keep forgetting about Isiekwe. And hes still only 24...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm in no rush to replace George. Whilst I think we should look to phase him out due to age, as long as he continues to perform, I'm fine for us to continue using him until his replacement is performing better than he is. Not every player can be a star with lots of xfactor and George tends to do the basics of his position well whilst also being reasonable at the extras. I can't say I can remember a game in which he stood out for the wrong reasons, one of the few players in the England squad we can say that about. Sometimes simple reliability and being at least a 7/10 all game every game is what you need.

 

[Which Tyler]

With LCD heading to Montpelier after the RWC and George turning 33 during it there's a big headache at hooker for the new coach and a massive chance for someone to charge through and claim the shirt. But who?

Bath have a coupler of promising youngsters coming through - but 2023 will be way too soon

 

[Geordie]

What about that young lad from wasps...young hooker....Alfie something?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I haven't read all of this thread but does anyone else think that people are way too confident in Robinson? Has the man ever coached internationally? He's had an incredible run with the Crusaders but he's also had what is comfortably the best squad of players in NZ and as a result of that success has been able to pluck the very best of young NZ talent from the other franchises (just this year they've lured in Noah Hotham from the Highlanders and Taha Kemara from the Chiefs; comfortably the best young 9 and 10 in the country).

I'd be very sceptical of him for the same reasons that people are sceptical of Baxter and McCall; he's been able to build up a great culture and been able to bring in some very talented players but the international game is an entirely different beast.

I'm not saying that he wouldn't be a good international coach, but people act like he's the dream signing for any team to be able to get hold of when in reality he's an entirely unknown commodity at international level.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I haven't read all of this thread but does anyone else think that people are way too confident in Robinson? Has the man ever coached internationally? He's had an incredible run with the Crusaders but he's also had what is comfortably the best squad of players in NZ and as a result of that success has been able to pluck the very best of young NZ talent from the other franchises (just this year they've lured in Noah Hotham from the Highlanders and Taha Kemara from the Chiefs; comfortably the best young 9 and 10 in the country).

I'd be very sceptical of him for the same reasons that people are sceptical of Baxter and McCall; he's been able to build up a great culture and been able to bring in some very talented players but the international game is an entirely different beast.

I'm not saying that he wouldn't be a good international coach, but people act like he's the dream signing for any team to be able to get hold of when in reality he's an entirely unknown commodity at international level.

Dude, how many coaches can do this? I rest my case.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I haven't read all of this thread but does anyone else think that people are way too confident in Robinson? Has the man ever coached internationally? He's had an incredible run with the Crusaders but he's also had what is comfortably the best squad of players in NZ and as a result of that success has been able to pluck the very best of young NZ talent from the other franchises (just this year they've lured in Noah Hotham from the Highlanders and Taha Kemara from the Chiefs; comfortably the best young 9 and 10 in the country).

I'd be very sceptical of him for the same reasons that people are sceptical of Baxter and McCall; he's been able to build up a great culture and been able to bring in some very talented players but the international game is an entirely different beast.

I'm not saying that he wouldn't be a good international coach, but people act like he's the dream signing for any team to be able to get hold of when in reality he's an entirely unknown commodity at international level.

Agreed. It's a different level, a different skill set and much higher pressure. Everything we hear is good, but unproven at the top level. Not to say he wouldn't succeed but we shouldn't book him in at Buck House for his knighthood just yet.

At least we can be consoled that neither of the top 2 teams in the world rankings has an English head coach, attack coach or defence coach.

 

[Geordie]

In reality who are the options...who havent now signed big contracts elsewhere like Shaun Edwards..

Robertson
Baxter
McCall
Gatland
Borthwick

Only one of those is a genuine tried and tested international coach and one has a good deal of experience as a number 2 at international level.

 

[Welsh Exile]

In reality who are the options...who havent now signed big contracts elsewhere like Shaun Edwards..

Robertson
Baxter
McCall
Gatland
Borthwick

Only one of those is a genuine tried and tested international coach and one has a good deal of experience as a number 2 at international level.

As someone rightly said earlier, Jamie Joseph should be on the list. I'd be happy with him at Wales.

 

[Geordie]

Absolutely...Joseph has done wonders with Japan.

Im sure theres a few other names aswell that should be in the reckoning...i just listed the ones i consistently hear being mentioned.

 

[Reiser99]

Is any international coach really going to leave for another country at short notice? I know it might be a better job, but it's also a really bad look.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The kiss of death! Get a blanket cheque out for someone fast.