- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 100,018,503
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
That's wild
-
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Life after Eddie …
- Thread starter BPM
- Start date
It is the here and now....Anyway....LIFE AFTER EDDIE
Odds on SCW doing a third? Highly unlikely but it might be one of the less terrible choices in the current situation....
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 100,018,503
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
A guy who's had no involvement in the sport for 17years?
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2012
- Messages
- 2,882
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Brendon McCullum once kept Dan Carter out of a New Zealand rep rugby team
McCullum could have been an All Blacks star
www.foxsports.com.au
The main issue was not sacking him last year it really feel like the wins against SA and Australia in the Autumn saved his bacon an 80th minute penalty by Smith may have stopped us getting a coach with ample time to prepare.
I don't like Which_Tyler's analysis but he is right. I don't see a a new coach having a better plan for semi-final and final. But equally I have no bloody clue what Eddie's was but his probably had a better chance because he's had 3 years to execute it and set it up. Someone with 9 months is just going to hope being a fresh face works.
In some ways at schedule is kind to use next year we have the three weakest other teams in 6 nations first with Argentina, Japan and Chile first up in the RWC.
Wales, Ireland and Fiji as warm up games as well. There is at least time for a new coach to experiment a little in finding the right combinations and willing to do it. Of things go well in the 6 nations maybe build some cohesion in game plan in warm ups and early world cup games.
We ain't winning the thing but I didn't think we'd do that under EJ
I don't like Which_Tyler's analysis but he is right. I don't see a a new coach having a better plan for semi-final and final. But equally I have no bloody clue what Eddie's was but his probably had a better chance because he's had 3 years to execute it and set it up. Someone with 9 months is just going to hope being a fresh face works.
In some ways at schedule is kind to use next year we have the three weakest other teams in 6 nations first with Argentina, Japan and Chile first up in the RWC.
Wales, Ireland and Fiji as warm up games as well. There is at least time for a new coach to experiment a little in finding the right combinations and willing to do it. Of things go well in the 6 nations maybe build some cohesion in game plan in warm ups and early world cup games.
We ain't winning the thing but I didn't think we'd do that under EJ
Aw i think Borthwick is pretty much there.
Im more interested to see who his coaches will be.
Does Hodgson stay on...or released and Sinfield brought in?
The defense needs to be shored up...
Who comes in as attack coach.
Borthwick is very much a set piece man...which i like at this level as it crucial...but you need more than that to be successful...and a good attack coach maybe Vesty or someone can really take it to the next level.
We HAVE the players.
Im more interested to see who his coaches will be.
Does Hodgson stay on...or released and Sinfield brought in?
The defense needs to be shored up...
Who comes in as attack coach.
Borthwick is very much a set piece man...which i like at this level as it crucial...but you need more than that to be successful...and a good attack coach maybe Vesty or someone can really take it to the next level.
We HAVE the players.
Better than Dan Carter? Cool he'll realise how shite Farrell is.
Brendon McCullum once kept Dan Carter out of a New Zealand rep rugby team
McCullum could have been an All Blacks star
Crash Hamster
First XV
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2021
- Messages
- 1,145
Interesting that Jones was saved by the Australia tour.
I had a look back on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_England_rugby_union_tour_of_Australia and apart from the Smith/Farrell Not Very Effective Axis, there was some logic in the sides picked.
The first game was awful, playing against 14 for 46 minutes (and Hill lucky to escape with a yellow). Debuts, and debut tries, from JvP and Henry Arundell made it look less embarrassing than it was.
Second game involved Jack Willis pulling up lame and being replaced on the bench by Will Joseph, which bugged me then and bugs me still. If you want an abrasive back-rower on the bench, but he's injured, who do you call for? Ah yes, a bloke who will give you a one minute debut at OC. We basically kicked Australia to death, to scrape a not very exciting win.
Third game, a couple of tries, IIRC Marcus Smith scored from an individual break. Jones kept his Secret World Cup Winning Plan well hidden. Joseph failed to add to his cap, warming the bench for the whole game.
As Jones himself had said, you're judged by results and we came out of it with two narrow wins to an absolute stuffing (mitigated by two very late tries.) It's possible to carp about some of the players selected, but at least they played in sensible positions (apart from Farrell). You'd think that lessons may have been learned from this, but they weren't.
Back to picking players out of position and narrow victories away were replaced by a narrow defeat, a draw and a stuffing at home.
I had a look back on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_England_rugby_union_tour_of_Australia and apart from the Smith/Farrell Not Very Effective Axis, there was some logic in the sides picked.
The first game was awful, playing against 14 for 46 minutes (and Hill lucky to escape with a yellow). Debuts, and debut tries, from JvP and Henry Arundell made it look less embarrassing than it was.
Second game involved Jack Willis pulling up lame and being replaced on the bench by Will Joseph, which bugged me then and bugs me still. If you want an abrasive back-rower on the bench, but he's injured, who do you call for? Ah yes, a bloke who will give you a one minute debut at OC. We basically kicked Australia to death, to scrape a not very exciting win.
Third game, a couple of tries, IIRC Marcus Smith scored from an individual break. Jones kept his Secret World Cup Winning Plan well hidden. Joseph failed to add to his cap, warming the bench for the whole game.
As Jones himself had said, you're judged by results and we came out of it with two narrow wins to an absolute stuffing (mitigated by two very late tries.) It's possible to carp about some of the players selected, but at least they played in sensible positions (apart from Farrell). You'd think that lessons may have been learned from this, but they weren't.
Back to picking players out of position and narrow victories away were replaced by a narrow defeat, a draw and a stuffing at home.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2011
- Messages
- 11,348
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
I doubt any new coach will be able to bed in some great plan for England but I think that just getting their morale and confidence up will go a huge way to offsetting that. There is being harsh but fair as a coach and then there is just being abusive, it sounds like Jones was the latter. As was mentioned above, it doesn't matter what master plan you have if players confidence is shattered. It's also amazing how much worse you work when under lots of stress / feeling like those above you have it in for you. There is no way the England team would properly execute the plan in that state. Numerous times on this forum the high turnaround was explained away as moving on to better things, whilst that may have been a factor, we cannot say if they were pulled away by that job or pushed away by Jones and then found something else. It's an important distinction.
Jones should have gone a year ago. I think as long as his replacement gets the players believing in themselves, gets morale up, doesn't stick with favourites and focuses on the basics, that should do us reasonably well. That's what England did when Jones first came in. Just make ourselves a really tough team to beat that everyone buys into.
Jones should have gone a year ago. I think as long as his replacement gets the players believing in themselves, gets morale up, doesn't stick with favourites and focuses on the basics, that should do us reasonably well. That's what England did when Jones first came in. Just make ourselves a really tough team to beat that everyone buys into.
We are still left with the same issues Eddie had.
Can we get Sinckler back to his best? And who is back up?
Who are the Starting locks?? Itoje isnt at his best..and needs a nuts and bolts lock beside him. Is that Ribbans...finally?
Who else is there...Chessum, Tizzard??
Whats happening at 6? Is it a lock / hybrid...or an actual flanker...
Coles/ Lawes v Jack Willis - or even better...Ted HIll
Whats happening at 8. Is this dependant on the 6 option. or do we finally pick a player who can pretty much all...ie Dombrandt.
12 - Farrell or another. But who is the Another?? We dont have one outstanding...and Dan Kelly is always injured
Wings - Please pick some of the young lads playing so well in the prem.
Can we get Sinckler back to his best? And who is back up?
Who are the Starting locks?? Itoje isnt at his best..and needs a nuts and bolts lock beside him. Is that Ribbans...finally?
Who else is there...Chessum, Tizzard??
Whats happening at 6? Is it a lock / hybrid...or an actual flanker...
Coles/ Lawes v Jack Willis - or even better...Ted HIll
Whats happening at 8. Is this dependant on the 6 option. or do we finally pick a player who can pretty much all...ie Dombrandt.
12 - Farrell or another. But who is the Another?? We dont have one outstanding...and Dan Kelly is always injured
Wings - Please pick some of the young lads playing so well in the prem.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 100,018,503
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Should've give it Dimes to the end of the season, really
At least we might have someone willing to try and solve those problems...
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2016
- Messages
- 4,858
- Club or Nation
Honestly i just hope Borthwick just puts a huge importance on the basics getting a solid base because we seem to have lost that.
Borthwick is a good coach with international experience and a head coach prem win so while i think it is abit early he isnt inexperienced.
And its the coaching set up that will make it. We need to go hard for coaches, good attack coach especially as now EJ is gone we might actually be able to hold onto them.
Our coaching set up right now is pretty average, i think EJ is a good tactical coach but to focused on the WC at the expense of other tournements or fans. He is not an attack coach or a defence coach and when he ****** off every coach into leaving who he's left with is average cpaching squad. Jones is the reason jones is failing.
Borthwick is a good coach with international experience and a head coach prem win so while i think it is abit early he isnt inexperienced.
And its the coaching set up that will make it. We need to go hard for coaches, good attack coach especially as now EJ is gone we might actually be able to hold onto them.
Our coaching set up right now is pretty average, i think EJ is a good tactical coach but to focused on the WC at the expense of other tournements or fans. He is not an attack coach or a defence coach and when he ****** off every coach into leaving who he's left with is average cpaching squad. Jones is the reason jones is failing.
Personally whoever comes in needs to give the players some freedom. I've said it before one of Jones's biggest lies was saying he wanted the team to play heads up rugby and then proceeded to kill any thought of heads up rugby in them and get them playing safe, percentage, risk-free rugby.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2017
- Messages
- 3,253
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
I think Jones was given far too much credit in the bank for reaching the RWC final. Don't get me wrong, it was a great achievement but not having to play France in the group stage was a major help and while it's all well and good planning in RWC cycles it's not acceptable for a nation like England to have two (or potentially three had he stayed) poor 6Ns in a row not to mention the disappointing AIs.
Gatland and Schmidt were able to perform consistently well with Wales and Ireland respectively during their tenures. Fair enough having the odd rubbish year where there is clearly a player or tactical transition going on but such transitions shouldn't last for years at the expense of tournaments like the 6N and test series' that take place in between RWCs. Even during a transition period, the forwards should still be able to do the basics and give the backs a good enough platform. I think the RFU have done the right thing and agree with those who say he should have gone a year ago.
Gatland and Schmidt were able to perform consistently well with Wales and Ireland respectively during their tenures. Fair enough having the odd rubbish year where there is clearly a player or tactical transition going on but such transitions shouldn't last for years at the expense of tournaments like the 6N and test series' that take place in between RWCs. Even during a transition period, the forwards should still be able to do the basics and give the backs a good enough platform. I think the RFU have done the right thing and agree with those who say he should have gone a year ago.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2013
- Messages
- 25,615
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 100,018,503
- Country Flag
- Club or Nation
Leaving the North has made him soft, send him home
TopTen2003
Academy Player
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2017
- Messages
- 287
Agree with what most said already - looks like Borthwick is the likely man so it's then about who his coaches are and whether we eject some of Eddies recent appointments.
I think Proudfoot would have to go reading between the lines.
Would like to see a good attack coach- possibly a SH one - to unleash some of the fresh faces we ought to see in the 6N- particularly on wings.
We need to offer some threat, ambition, and freedom.
I think Proudfoot would have to go reading between the lines.
Would like to see a good attack coach- possibly a SH one - to unleash some of the fresh faces we ought to see in the 6N- particularly on wings.
We need to offer some threat, ambition, and freedom.
If thats wrong...great he starts at 12 for me.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2015
- Messages
- 7,099
- Country Flag
.
There certainly seems a lot of smoke around that. If he really did keep crossing the line could the RFU leverage that in negotiating the severance package?
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
