Messi wins fourth straight Ballon d'Or

[Feicarsinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20937775

So the question is folks, are we looking at the greatest player of all time here? I'll admit that I don't watch as much Spanish football as I'd like, but any time I see him he's essentially untouchable. He beats men with such ease and constancy and his goa lscoring record is absolutely astonishing, especially when you consider that he's not even a striker.

All he needs to do in my books is guide Argentina to a World Cup. Part of the problem on that front in my opinion is that the Argentines have slightly too many good attackers and they tend to cancel each other out.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Good point, too many and very good attackers and very weak defenders, it´s a cronic problem in argentine football. No kid wants to be a defender, all wants to be Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Tevez, etc. About if Messi is the best of all times, he needs to win a World Cup to confirm that; meanwhile the best is Diego Maradona.

 

[admartian]

Yes. PRetty much the best ever.

Too bad he's wasted in a snore of a sport.

 

[nickdnz]

Certainly up there. Difficult to compare him to others like Pele who played at a different era, for Santos (not a Spanish or English mainstream club) - but won three world cups and scored at an amazing rate.

 

[Helmy]

I'm still of the opinion he's massively overrated, but well, I'm rather biased because he plays for Barcelona. Still, that's one of the arguments against him, isn't it? He's always played for and will probably always play for Barcelona, where he is supported by two other great players in Xavi and Iniesta. He's also playing in Spain where most players score for fun. On top of supposedly not replicating his club form for country, we're never going to know if Messi would look as good in the English Premier League where defences are tighter.

I don't know why the media rush to call anyone the 'greatest' of all time, which then causes the general public to come to the same conclusion, because soon enough there will be another 'greatest'. Then, soon enough, Messi, like the Pele's, the Maradona's, the Best's, will live on in name and not the memory of most people.

Funny, though, that few would rush to call Carter the greatest player of all time after two of rugby's equivalent awards? Is that because he's two awards short or because the rugby following media aren't quite as sensationalist as the football following media?

Not replicating club form for country is understandable for any footballer, I think, because how anyone can expect them to form understanding with national team mates when there's so much interference by clubs, I don't know.

Just to point out, I'm not doubting he's a great player, but I find the hype tiring.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I'm happy for him.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So Lionel Messi is on Honeymoon with his newly wed wife. As she is ready to get down and frisky, she hops on the bed, gets rid of her clothes, and pulls off the bedsheet... As she pulls off the bed sheet, she finds Xavi and Iniesta laying in the bed. She looks up at Lionel, and asks him WTF is going on here... To which Lionel replies: "I'm not doing anything or going anywhere without Xavi or Iniesta".




He's a great footballer, no doubt about it, but without the midfielders class and panache, he wouldn't have been scoring so much, so often. Just look at when he plays for Argentina. to score 91 goals in a calender year is no small feat, I just wonder if he would've scored as much if he played for another team and in another league.

the Ballon D'or is a bit of a farce, as year in, and year out the Spanish top teams overrun all facets. IMHO it's because there's a big difference in class between the top 8 sides in the La Liga and the rest of the teams in that league. the English Premier league is a much tougher league, where there are just as good footballers, but because of the toughness of the league and the amount of games they play, the players don't have the ability to show what they are cabaple of in every game.

I for one would've liked it if Falcao and Robin van Persie made the cut.

 

[cyRil]

the English Premier league is a much tougher league, where there are just as good footballers, but because of the toughness of the league and the amount of games they play, the players don't have the ability to show what they are capable of in every game.

I don't know whether this is just confused or plain wrong.
By 'tougher' I'm guessing you mean rougher play and harder tackles - not necessarily true anymore due to standard of reffing and interpretation of foul play.
There are some footballers who are just as good, IE. van Persie, Aguero, Mata... But then you see FIFA's team of the year and every single player picked plays for a Spanish club with everyone - bar Marcelo, for me - deservedly there.
Toughness of the league and amount of games they play - First bit already addressed, but could you point out to me how many more games English teams play per year compared to their Spanish counterparts?
Thaaaaanks.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't know whether this is just confused or plain wrong.
By 'tougher' I'm guessing you mean rougher play and harder tackles - not necessarily true anymore due to standard of reffing and interpretation of foul play.
There are some footballers who are just as good, IE. van Persie, Aguero, Mata... But then you see FIFA's team of the year and every single player picked plays for a Spanish club with everyone - bar Marcelo, for me - deservedly there.
Toughness of the league and amount of games they play - First bit already addressed, but could you point out to me how many more games English teams play per year compared to their Spanish counterparts?
Thaaaaanks.

Well, for one there is an extra Cup competition in England. They play in the Barclays Premier League, The FA Cup, and then the League Cup. in Spain, they only play the La Liga and the Copa Del Rey.

What I mean by tougher is that, in Spain, IMO there are really only about 8 teams that are very competitive. In the Premier League, no team is easy to beat, especially when playing at home. Swansea, Southampton and Norwich have shown that even the recently promoted teams are just as good as the top teams with the best players in the world.

 

[psychic duck]

Well, for one there is an extra Cup competition in England. They play in the Barclays Premier League, The FA Cup, and then the League Cup. in Spain, they only play the La Liga and the Copa Del Rey.

What I mean by tougher is that, in Spain, IMO there are really only about 8 teams that are very competitive. In the Premier League, no team is easy to beat, especially when playing at home. Swansea, Southampton and Norwich have shown that even the recently promoted teams are just as good as the top teams with the best players in the world.

This.

Not so much this season, but over the past few years in general La Liga has been like the SPL in that the top two are so dominant.

Last season (2011/2012) the table went:
1. Real - 100 pts
2. Barca - 91
3. Valencia - 61

That's a gap of 30 points between 2nd and 3rd which is huge. The two season before that it was 21 points and 25 points the difference between second and third.

 

[cyRil]

Well, for one there is an extra Cup competition in England. They play in the Barclays Premier League, The FA Cup, and then the League Cup. in Spain, they only play the La Liga and the Copa Del Rey.

Teams rarely play their first XI in the League Cup & the Copa Del Rey is 2-legged throughout the competition... But I'm just splitting hairs and being pedantic!

 

[Teh Mite]

That Could describe the Magners league.

For that matter, the fixture conjestion and competitiveness could be the same for the Premiership.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I thought the whole thing is a bit farcical to be honest. The team of the year a good bit off, I don't think Pique deserved to be there as Vincent Kompany has had a much better year and van Persie vs Falcao was a close call. And as to Messi winning four in a row Ronaldo definitely deserved it in 2010 and arguably this year after having more silverware and better international performances than Messi although Messi's goal count does set him apart.

 

[Helmy]

I thought the whole thing is a bit farcical to be honest. The team of the year a good bit off, I don't think Pique deserved to be there as Vincent Kompany has had a much better year and van Persie vs Falcao was a close call. And as to Messi winning four in a row Ronaldo definitely deserved it in 2010 and arguably this year after having more silverware and better international performances than Messi although Messi's goal count does set him apart.

It's funny, though, because last year Ronaldo outscored Messi. I honestly think the 'Ronaldo is an asshole' misconception counts against, another creation of the media...

In relation to Spanish and English football, I don't think Spanish football is as poor as some point out. It just so happens that Barcelona and Real Madrid are so good. In saying that, you only have to look at La Liga this year to see that it's not as set in stone as some think, considering how many points Real Madrid have dropped and that Atletico Madrid are 5 points ahead of them in second... I know Atletico Madrid lost their first match against Barcelona, but they have been Barcelona's bogey team in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if they take points in the next match. If Real Madrid were to win the next Clasico and Atletico Madrid continue to keep pace with Barcelona, who knows... It's the RM v AM derby that will be interesting, I don't think AM have beaten RM since the 1990's.

Both Atletico Madrid and Athletic Bilbao have done well in the Europa League in recent years, as well.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's funny, though, because last year Ronaldo outscored Messi. I honestly think the 'Ronaldo is an asshole' misconception counts against, another creation of the media...

In relation to Spanish and English football, I don't think Spanish football is as poor as some point out. It just so happens that Barcelona and Real Madrid are so good. In saying that, you only have to look at La Liga this year to see that it's not as set in stone as some think, considering how many points Real Madrid have dropped and that Atletico Madrid are 5 points ahead of them in second... I know Atletico Madrid lost their first match against Barcelona, but they have been Barcelona's bogey team in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if they take points in the next match. If Real Madrid were to win the next Clasico and Atletico Madrid continue to keep pace with Barcelona, who knows... It's the RM v AM derby that will be interesting, I don't think AM have beaten RM since the 1990's.

Both Atletico Madrid and Athletic Bilbao have done well in the Europa League in recent years, as well.

Right!

But once again, you just mention 4 teams. Barca, RM, AM and Athletic Bilbao... what about the other 16 teams in La Liga. They hardly make the spotlight, and are not really ***le contenders. year in and year out, it's the same bunch at the top with maybe 1 suprize package.

Whereas in England, you get the traditional top 4, consisting of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. Then you add Man City, Everton, Tottenham and Newcastle who all can beat any team on a given day. then there are teams like Swansea who go out and manage to beat these big guns on a regular basis. that's already 9 that I have mentioned, and I'm sure there are more teams that could've been mentioned

 

[nickdnz]

Right!

But once again, you just mention 4 teams. Barca, RM, AM and Athletic Bilbao... what about the other 16 teams in La Liga. They hardly make the spotlight, and are not really ***le contenders. year in and year out, it's the same bunch at the top with maybe 1 suprize package.

Whereas in England, you get the traditional top 4, consisting of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. Then you add Man City, Everton, Tottenham and Newcastle who all can beat any team on a given day. then there are teams like Swansea who go out and manage to beat these big guns on a regular basis. that's already 9 that I have mentioned, and I'm sure there are more teams that could've been mentioned

Case and point: Chelsea's loss to Queen's Park Rangers - their first win of the season.

 

[Helmy]

Well, then there's Malaga, who have had a lot of money pumped into them recently and just tipped over Real Madrid, currently sitting in fourth place and in the knock-out stages for the Champions League. Valencia and Sevilla are always there or there abouts, but currently not sitting in the top four, Villarreal used to be up there but have dropped off remarkably. I mean, I'm in agreement that the Premier League is better for competition, but I don't think La Liga or its standards are as low as everyone thinks. I'm also not sure competition and quality = the same thing. It just happens that Spain has two very, very good club sides in it.

Comparing to Scotland isn't the same, as the top two wouldn't reasonably be considered to be challenging for the Champions League every year, even if Celtic did just knock over Barcelona.

 

[SelimNiai]

Main difference between La Liga and the BPL? Spanish football is boring, plain and simple. We can bang on about a 4,2 or 3 team league as much as we like but the whole Spanish football mentality bores me. English league football is far better, its faster, more physical (even if the refs are ruining it by forbidding any sort of meaningful tackling) and therefore more exciting. If the national team played like the league does they'd be far better.

That said, Messi is a total genius with a football. Its irrelevant that he plays with some superb players as he could do most of the things playing at Peterbrough or Barnsley on a Tuesday Night

 

[cyRil]

It's the RM v AM derby that will be interesting

And I'm going!!!!!! FAAAALLCAAAAAOOOO!!!!

 

[Feicarsinn]

I don't get this whole "Spain only has 4 teams" argument. The top 4 in England was so stagnant for the majority of the past decade, and has only recently been shaken up thanks to the ineptitude of Liverpool and Arsenal. This is not something that the league should be prided on, but rather those two clubs should be ashamed of.

Are there realistically more than two (at a stretch three) clubs in England who can go into the league thinking they have a chance of winning it? No way. Are there more than 5 clubs competing for the Champions League spots? Nope.

Here's a list of the clubs that have represented Spain in the Champions League since 2002:

Real Madrid
Mallorca
Barcelona
Deportivo
Valencia
Real Sociedad
Celta Vigo
Villareal
Real Betis
Sevilla
Atletico Madrid
Malaga

And here's the list of English clubs:

Man Utd
Arsenal
Liverpool
Newcastle
Chelsea
Spurs
Man City

Okay, so that's about 12 to 7 in favor of Spain. I guess you could include Everton on the English side if you want, as they did break the top 4, but failed to qualify. Now, while that may hint that the league is more competitive, it doesn't itself show Spain to be more competitive. A large gap from the top 2 to the chasing pack exists. However those who say that this makes the Premier League a better than La Liga should examine last year's table from England. There's a 19 point gap from second to third and at no point during the season did it look like the chasing pack would ever challenge the Manchester sides. 3rd place lost to 2nd 8-2 for crying out loud! So I don't think you can use that argument truth be told.