New Zealand - RWC 2015 Discussion Thread

[Larksea]

Word has it Hansen still considers Ben Smith a winger.

Hopefully with the emergence of Naholo this is thrown out the window and Smith is solidified at 15.

Am I the only one preying Dagg doesn't return from injury?

not hating on dagg at all I love the guy. But I really think its time Ben Smith was rightfully made our first choice 15 and Dagg his backup.

It's getting stupid now Ben Smith has been the best 15 in the world for +3 years

I wouldn't had said it a couple of months ago but I'm starting to feel like I'd rather see Nehe & Naholo make the final squad ahead of Jane & Dagg. We really need some new blood.

 

[Kiwi_]

not hating on dagg at all I love the guy. But I really think its time Ben Smith was rightfully made our first choice 15 and Dagg his backup.

It's getting stupid now Ben Smith has been the best 15 in the world for +3 years

I wouldn't had said it a couple of months ago but I'm starting to feel like I'd rather see Nehe & Naholo make the final squad ahead of Jane & Dagg. We really need some new blood.

They should make the squad ahead of those two. I appreciate what both have done for us the past few seasons, but they're too injury prone and not inform. We need some inform, hungry new players. Nehe and Naholo are about as good as you will ever get in their position and better than both Jane and Dagg I think. Skudder has a lot more talent than Dagg. Although unproven, this is a real chance for him.

Hopefully he will have a good game vs Tonga and good RC and make the cut ahead of Dagg, same applies for Naholo and Jane.

Name alone can't get you selected and a team should never be decided or picked like that. Managers and coaches Achilles heal is often holding on to past tense, you see it in every sport and in most cases they're too over the hill, out off form or just simply not good enough anymore.

Hansens loyalty has paid off in the past, with Ma'a Nonu returning to form, when he was simply woeful for us in 2013, but he wasn't suffering the same injuries as Dagg and Jane and it's not like we had bursting talent at centre that year either, that screamed "pick me over Nonu" like we do at FB with Skudder and wing with Naholo.

 

[nik]

How good are Naholo and NMS on diffusing the high ball? In the same league as Dagg, Smith and Jane?

 

[austingtir]

How good are Naholo and NMS on diffusing the high ball? In the same league as Dagg, Smith and Jane?

It wont matter if they score twice as many tries as bombs they don't defuse.... Dagg is totally ineffective on attack. Jane I still rate though and I HATED him against England last year.

Jane still has that amazing ability to make something out of nothing against a solid defence and tie them in knots. Dagg does not.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It wont matter if they score twice as many tries as bombs they don't defuse.... Dagg is totally ineffective on attack. Jane I still rate though and I HATED him against England last year.

Jane still has that amazing ability to make something out of nothing against a solid defence and tie them in knots. Dagg does not.

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of test match rugby, especially when getting to the knock out stages of RWCs when tries will be few and far between and the fewer errors players make especially under the high ball becomes essential. Like it or not this World Cup will be played in the NH where the scrum, mauling, defence and the kicking game will be key to winning this RWC.

 

[Kiwi_]

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of test match rugby, especially when getting to the knock out stages of RWCs when tries will be few and far between and the fewer errors players make especially under the high ball becomes essential. Like it or not this World Cup will be played in the NH where the scrum, mauling, defence and the kicking game will be key to winning this RWC.

Disagreed, we shouldn't sink to the NH game and try beat them at it. We should stick to our game and keep playing. I think in past World Cups we have tensed up and tried to keep it too tight, where other teams are better than us. We beat teams through the backs and it will be key to us winning this World Cup to continue playing OUR game and not try beat the NH at their game.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Disagreed, we shouldn't sink to the NH game and try beat them at it. We should stick to our game and keep playing. I think in past World Cups we have tensed up and tried to keep it too tight, where other teams are better than us. We beat teams through the backs and it will be key to us winning this World Cup to continue playing OUR game and not try beat the NH at their game.

But that is not what each RWC has shown since 1987. If you still think NZ will beat teams like they did in 1987, especially in the knockout stages, then you haven't really been watching the last 6. Tries will be at a premium in the knockout stages; especially in a World Cup final.

Anyway, my reply was to do with being safe under the high ball. The kicking game will be key in this world cup; like it or not and the ABs kick a lot of their ball. If NS and Nahaloo aren't good enough under the high ball at test level yet, they will not get picked in the RWC squad and will be sent away to work on this aspect of their game. Test match rugby is as much about not making mistakes and giving up territory, otherwise there is no platform to score any tries. This mentality of it does not matter whether they are safe under the high ball because they will make for it with their try scoring prowess, shows Super rugby thinking rather than a test match understanding.

 

[Kiwi_]

But that is not what each RWC has shown since 1987. If you still think NZ will beat teams like they did in 1987, especially in the knockout stages, then you haven't really been watching the last 6. Tries will be at a premium in the knockout stages; especially in a World Cup final.

Anyway, my reply was to do with being safe under the high ball. The kicking game will be key in this world cup; like it or not and the ABs kick a lot of their ball. If NS and Nahaloo aren't good enough under the high ball at test level yet, they will not get picked in the RWC squad and will be sent away to work on this aspect of their game. Test match rugby is as much about not making mistakes and giving up territory, otherwise there is no platform to score any tries. This mentality of it does not matter whether they are safe under the high ball because they will make for it with their try scoring prowess, shows Super rugby thinking rather than a test match understanding.

Skudder is excellent under the high ball and great on counter attack, doesn't lose the ball or find himself isolated either, has superb vision, no reason not too pick him, he's better than Dagg in every single department, Dagg doesn't come close at all, the only advantage he has, is he's a Hansen favourite and has experience, which could be enough.

Naholo is not so great on defense (this could be his down fall), but he's a busy player and his combination with Smith is one of the best in the World, he's not afraid to come inside either on attack and constantly breaks the advantage line. His finishing is some of the best I've ever seen, even better than Jeff Wilsons in the Otago glory days. Naholo will either be a starter or brought on as an impact player. But I can't see him being on the field if we're looking to close the game out, due to his poor tackling.

 

[nickdnz]

Skudder is excellent under the high ball and great on counter attack, doesn't lose the ball or find himself isolated either, has superb vision, no reason not too pick him, he's better than Dagg in every single department, Dagg doesn't come close at all, the only advantage he has, is he's a Hansen favourite and has experience, which could be enough.

Naholo is not so great on defense (this could be his down fall), but he's a busy player and his combination with Smith is one of the best in the World, he's not afraid to come inside either on attack and constantly breaks the advantage line. His finishing is some of the best I've ever seen, even better than Jeff Wilsons in the Otago glory days. Naholo will either be a starter or brought on as an impact player. But I can't see him being on the field if we're looking to close the game out, due to his poor tackling.

Disagree on Naholo's defense. He has a pretty good tackle completion rate at 78%. That's considerably higher than Julian Savea's for this competition. It's certainly not a glaring weakness.

 

[Kiwi_]

Disagree on Naholo's defense. He has a pretty good tackle completion rate at 78%. That's considerably higher than Julian Savea's for this competition. It's certainly not a glaring weakness.

Yeah, you would hope it's good enough. It was the only issue I could really think off. I can remember a number of tries this season that resulted from him missing a tackle.

 

[austingtir]

But that is not what each RWC has shown since 1987. If you still think NZ will beat teams like they did in 1987, especially in the knockout stages, then you haven't really been watching the last 6. Tries will be at a premium in the knockout stages; especially in a World Cup final.

Anyway, my reply was to do with being safe under the high ball. The kicking game will be key in this world cup; like it or not and the ABs kick a lot of their ball. If NS and Nahaloo aren't good enough under the high ball at test level yet, they will not get picked in the RWC squad and will be sent away to work on this aspect of their game. Test match rugby is as much about not making mistakes and giving up territory, otherwise there is no platform to score any tries. This mentality of it does not matter whether they are safe under the high ball because they will make for it with their try scoring prowess, shows Super rugby thinking rather than a test match understanding.

End of the day theres no proof they cant handle the high ball as they have not been tested. Im sure Hansen and co can sort them out for next year. End of the day they are unlikely to be starters for us come any crunch matches this year. Very nice to have them on the bench though so we can blow teams like England off the park.

Im telling you guys now that nobody in super rugby has been able to stop Naholo all season. It wont be any different at test match level. I havent seen a player like this guy since Rocko and Sivivatu in their prime and this guys better!!

This is a guy who scored six tries in one match. He's no joke.

And anyway we will have God playing at fullback so its not a problem.

 

[nickdnz]

End of the day theres no proof they cant handle the high ball as they have not been tested. Im sure Hansen and co can sort them out for next year. End of the day they are unlikely to be starters for us come any crunch matches this year. Very nice to have them on the bench though so we can blow teams like England off the park.

Im telling you guys now that nobody in super rugby has been able to stop Naholo all season. It wont be any different at test match level. I havent seen a player like this guy since Rocko and Sivivatu in their prime and this guys better!!

This is a guy who scored six tries in one match. He's no joke.

And anyway we will have God playing at fullback so its not a problem.

Huh?

 

[Picking Daisies]

...when getting to the knock out stages of RWCs when tries will be few and far between and the fewer errors players make especially under the high ball becomes essential. Like it or not this World Cup will be played in the NH where the scrum, mauling, defence and the kicking game will be key to winning this RWC.

Agreed. I think the point here is that the WC by it's very nature at the playoff phase requires a relatively low-risk approach.

Disagreed, we shouldn't sink to the NH game and try beat them at it. We should stick to our game and keep playing. I think in past World Cups we have tensed up and tried to keep it too tight, where other teams are better than us. We beat teams through the backs and it will be key to us winning this World Cup to continue playing OUR game and not try beat the NH at their game.

I understand the point about 'tensing up' and losing our natural rhythm and momentum, and in a sense I agree, however I don't think that implementing low-risk tactics should be considered as 'sinking to the NH game' (a sentiment I disagree with as it's rugby all the same). Rather, it's a horses-for-courses approach.

Very nice to have them on the bench though so we can blow teams like England off the park.

This sounds a little arrogant, I wouldn't underestimate the English on (mostly) home soil, nor the team that Lancaster is developing. They will be a very, very difficult team to beat, and have every chance at winning the Cup - along with South Africa, Ireland, and NZ.

Skudder is excellent under the high ball and great on counter attack, doesn't lose the ball or find himself isolated either, has superb vision, no reason not too pick him

Agreed. He is an outrageous talent, a superb fullback. He will go a long, long way. Any deficiencies in Naholo's game will be swiftly removed with Wayne Smith's guidance.

Can't wait!

 

[TobesHodges]

Looking back at guys getting injured, I feel worst for Ma'atu the Cains hooker, having had his best season ever, he would have been in the squad for sure..

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I wonder if ABs will factor in playing for the drop goal if games get tight? Just re-watched the last 10 minutes of the France v NZ QF 2007 and it was shocking that the ABs did not change their game plan to set up a drop goal play to win that game. Not counting the dismal effort by McAllister from the half way line, which did not even reach the posts.

 

[TobesHodges]

Just seen the kiwi squad wow!! Think honestly only the English if they get their defence right and the Aussies with the can get there attack right will come close, very talented and experienced squad.. Another note, great to see Hansen throw some flare in his mangererial role having 4 I think, debutants..

 

[austingtir]

This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of test match rugby, especially when getting to the knock out stages of RWCs when tries will be few and far between and the fewer errors players make especially under the high ball becomes essential. Like it or not this World Cup will be played in the NH where the scrum, mauling, defence and the kicking game will be key to winning this RWC.

I think your going to be in for a shock then... If you look at our squad scrum and mauling are not high on the priority list and it never has been in NZ rugby a few NZ sides in super rugby were actually dominated at times in the rolling maul and thats been going on for more than a few years now... While NZ will be adequate at it we simply are not going to base our entire game around it like England, Ireland and SA will.

Hansen will be looking to blow teams off the park as I suspect he's still ****** that he didnt get the opportunity at the last WC due to first five issues. The game has changed since the last WC flyhalfs do not dominate like they used to so I dont believe we will be as effected as when Dan went down last time.

The rolling maul is really our only obvious weakness England and co will be mad not to go crazy with it. But I think Argentina is the only country in the world capable of dominating us in the scrums and rolling maul.

You lot can have your rolling maul I say go down firing the WC is not the be all and end all.

 

[Picking Daisies]

I wonder if ABs will factor in playing for the drop goal if games get tight? Just re-watched the last 10 minutes of the France v NZ QF 2007 and it was shocking that the ABs did not change their game plan to set up a drop goal play to win that game. Not counting the dismal effort by McAllister from the half way line, which did not even reach the posts.

Don't even start on the shambles that was the final 10-15 minutes of that match - I must've sat with my mouth wide open in disbelief at what was unfolding, that the game plan did not adjust to set up camp for a drop goal attempt/s!

Just seen the kiwi squad wow!! Think honestly only the English if they get their defence right and the Aussies with the can get there attack right will come close, very talented and experienced squad.. Another note, great to see Hansen throw some flare in his mangererial role having 4 I think, debutants..

I don't think Australia will be a force at this WC, which is unfortunate for them and the game. South Africa, England, Ireland and NZ are my picks in terms of chances.

This should go some way to settling the debate around scoring outcomes in WC finals and the relevance of strong kicking, scrummaging, and defensive strategies:

 

[austingtir]

Don't even start on the shambles that was the final 10-15 minutes of that match - I must've sat with my mouth wide open in disbelief at what was unfolding, that the game plan did not adjust to set up camp for a drop goal attempt/s!

Thats because Dan just simply never been that good at drop goals so it would likely of hardly entered the equation.

Sopoaga who is now selected has proven to be pretty adept at drop goals and that could be one of the reasons for Hansen selecting him.

 

[Picking Daisies]

Thats because Dan just simply never been that good at drop goals so it would likely of hardly entered the equation.

Sopoaga who is now selected has proven to be pretty adept at drop goals and that could be one of the reasons for Hansen selecting him.

You're drawing a long bow to say that the game plan didn't change because Carter isn't a great kicker of dropped goals. 2007 aside, when has he ever actually had to kick drop goals for you to make this claim? I'm open to persuasion.
Sopoaga won't go to the WC so I doubt his ability to kick drop goals is a factor in his selection. His time to sit in the third flyhalf spot will be next year. Carter, Barrett, and Slade will go.