Ospreys v Calvisano - Pool 3

Discussion in 'European Champions & Challenge Cup' started by An Tarbh, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    The Ospreys have made 2 changes for this Friday's pool game in Swansea with Sonny Parker making way for Andrew Bishop whilst Ryan Jones takes his place at the expense of Andrew Bishop.

    Ospreys: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Nikki Walker, 13 Andrew Bishop, 12 James Hook, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Gavin Henson, 9 Justin Marshall, 8 Ryan Jones, 7 Steve Tandy, 6 Jonathan Thomas, 5 Ian Evans, 4 Alun Wyn Jones, 3 Adam Jones, 2 Huw Bennett, 1 Duncan Jones ©.
    Replacements: 16 Barry Williams, 17 Cai Griffiths, 18 Brent Cockbain, 19 Andrew Lloyd, 20 Martin Roberts, 21 Shaun Connor, 22 Jonny Vaughton.

    Calvisano: 15 Michael Cagnoni, 14 Matteo Pratichetti, 13 Cristiano Zanoletti, 12 James Downey, 11 Warren Spragg, 10 Roland De Marigny, 9 Pino Patelli, 8 David Dal Maso, 7 Aaron Persico, 6 Maurizio Zaffiri, 5 Valerio Bernabò, 4 Milton Ngauamo, 3 Rod Moore, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Adrien Vigne Donati.
    Replacements: 16 Stefano Silva, 17 Giorgio Intoppa, 18 Ben Gissing, 19 Nicola Cattina, 20 Paul Griffen, 21 Davide Pastormerlo, 22 Michael Gallinetti.

    Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
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  3. danit

    danit Guest

    more than half the team is composed by youngsters with no international experience: Ospreys will have to score at least 15 tries, Calvisano 0

    italian sides better give up the HCup, they can't play that level and btw they never play with their best XV, so teams in pools with italians can always get more easily to knock out stages as second best (10 points are free...)

    ERC shouldn't allow this
  4. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    Maybe then they belong in the challenge cup.
  5. danit

    danit Guest

    top 3 italian teams at the moment could compete decently in the challenge, nothing more
  6. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    Unfortunately though you'd probably have all the Magners League teams qualifying for the HEC regardless of league position, the way it is at the moment is pretty good.

    Maybe it's now time for the ERC to take action against team that don't take pool matches seriously rather than excluding Italian teams alltogether, for example ban Treviso or Calvisano and give Viadana or Gran Parma their place.
  7. danit

    danit Guest

    don't think it's a good point

    HCup should be played by less teams (16 or 20) with more matches: for example, 2 pools, 10 teams each, 9 games per team (stop the home-away round..), 6 french, 6 english, the best 6 from CL, 1 italian (ok, just to keep the movment alive...) and 1 more to choose in some other way (barrage or the challenge cup winner or the 7th french or english...)

    domestic leagues in England and France should be shortened

    this way you get a real top european league, to compare to the SH Super 14

    about the italian teams, actually there's no team who could even get a losing bonus point, not even in any home game, not even playing with the best XV: too many italian good players are now performing mostly in France and England and in Italy the (few) real good players play for 10 different professional sides, so no way to have a competitive one

    Viadana or Gran Parma couldn't do something different from Treviso or Calvisano, they can't compete so they play with youngster squads: this way they don't lose by 25, they lose by 50, but at the end no difference

    the problem is that in last years the italian rugby union tried to arrange a new system on provincial basis, no more than 4 professional sides (irish way managed by the union or welsh style managed by top teams), but the clubs firlmly refused, so now the situation is gettin' worse 'cause other countries are developing the system and Italy is completely stopped: if things don't change in a few time italian sides will get back away from professionalism and we will be like argies (50 best players playing abroad and, maybe, a good national team), but in the heart of Europe...
  8. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    Adding more matches to the HEC doesn't appear to be on the cards, especially given the French clubs problems in the upcoming world cup year.

    Domestically the French and English don't appear to be overly interested in scaling down, if anything they're adding more games in England with the ridiculous EDF Cup.

    The format of the HEC works very well, especially with the battle for the 2 runners-up spots. If we had a Super14 format, you'd have far too many meaningless matches over the course of the season.

    Provincial sides only work in Ireland cause there is an established identity with the 4 provinces whereas it's not worked that well in Wales and Scotland, now I don't know enough about club rugby in Italy to make any comments but if the club structure is well established then would the Union not be better off to work within that system rather than imposing something on them that they don't want?
  9. danit

    danit Guest

    I know, I know... unfortunately... don't think there would be too many meaningless matches if the best 4 in each pool would qualify for the knock out stages... btw this is just my opinion, just speculation, there's nothing really planned this way, I know ERC are thinking to change HCup format in 2008/9, but I dunno wich way

    well, I understand we're going OT, but...

    Italy is not England or France...

    a population of 56mln and just 45000 registred players (like Wales, half of Ireland)

    a poor tv coverage: no HCup on tv this year!! Sky IT pays about 500.000 euros to the league to show 2 Super10 games per week, in France LNR gets actually 19 mln euros for the Top14 by Canal+

    not too much money invested by sponsor and clubs: the richest italian team (Treviso) has a budget of about 3mln euros, much less than any french Top14 team (Narbonne: 5.8 mln euros last year)

    so, how can you afford 10 professional teams? you need to concentrate players, staff, money, sponsors, fans...

    I don't think provincial sides are not working in Scotland or Wales: I know there are many discussions, but welsh teams are quite successful in CL and have good results in HCup, scottish sides much less but they can easily beat any italian side, if the Reivers have beaten Parma 35-3 on HCup round 1...

    think about that: one of the most important non-professional scottish sides, Glasgow Hawks, came to Italy last year and played vs. Capitolina Rome, a team that was playing in 2nd division and now is playng Super10 (8th, actually): Rome won 47-26 scoring 7 tries
    that's because scottish best players just play in one of 3 professional teams, they are not divided among 10 unuseful teams, some of wich continuously fight against bakrupcy dangers...
  10. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    its not worked well in wales are you serious

    its only been regionalised for a short time, and in my opinion there are definate signs of improving

    say how mayn grand slams have ireland won recently?

    yeah thts right chum, the regions are doing just fine.
  11. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    only 1 quarter final place in the HEC under regionalism, yeah it's working a treat.

    Ireland may not have a grand slam but we've been a hell of lot more consistent than Wales who were utter cack prior to and after winning the grand slam. We've not been out of the top 3 since the 6N came into being.
  12. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    yes but have won f*** all, im sure you swap coming in the top 3, to win a gs wouldnt you haha!!
  13. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    2 Triple Crowns and HECs isn't f*** all.
  14. danit

    danit Guest

    wasn't it the Ospreys-Calvisano thread?.... :blink: :blink:

    oops, my fault... :rolleyes:
  15. danit

    danit Guest

    26 -9... :blink:

    just finished to watch it, quite unbelivable...

    Calvisano played a good game, kept possession, used boot tactically (De Marigny at flyhalf) very well, paied much more attention defensevely

    Ospreys played a scrappy game and never really were convincing: this could affect their confidence for the next two big clashes vs. Paris and at Sale...
  16. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    so horrible conditions but still you'd have expected the Ospreys to go better than that, still job done and just about alive in the pool.
  17. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    just about ? wha?

    there 8 pts clear of sale

    and theyve beaten stade at home before, and if stade beat sale, theyll loose interest and could be there for the taken!!
  18. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    yeah just about, I can't see Paris losing any games in this pool and tbh I can't see the Ospreys winning in Sale either.

    Realistically for the Ospreys to qualify it will be as a best runner up where they'll need a bp win in Sale and a losing bp when Paris come, I just can't see that happening, if you're only beating a second string Italian side 26-9 what chance against Paris with the strength of their squad.
  19. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    ffs, thts so naive, tht old tired cliche your only as good as your last game is bullshit

    the ospreys are a quality side and could turn it on at any moment

    its all about opinions, i think we have a shot at beatin stade, and as i said, if sale loos this weekend then there gunna loose all interest with this competition and may rest some bigger names!!
  20. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    They havn't got any big names left to rest though, they're all injured!!!
  21. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    percisely, come the last game sale if they loose on sat will defo be out of the running and nothing to play for, the ospreys all being well will have alot to play for!!
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