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Riki Flutey

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 4 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I think Roberts operates at 12 and 13 equally as well. It just depends on what team he's playing...if they like to send big runners up the 12/12 channel it's good to have him there because he can gives as good as he gets but he also works well at 13. I'd say, if I was made to choose I'd say I prefer him at 12...but I have just as much time for him as a 13 too.[/b]
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i tell you the other guy ive seen a few times that i think is very interesting is Jackson the Glasgow inside center/flyhalf

looks to have huge amount of talent...!

I think now that hensons injured james hook should also be considered as potential creative 12 for the lions.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 6 2009, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 4 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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I think Roberts operates at 12 and 13 equally as well. It just depends on what team he's playing...if they like to send big runners up the 12/12 channel it's good to have him there because he can gives as good as he gets but he also works well at 13. I'd say, if I was made to choose I'd say I prefer him at 12...but I have just as much time for him as a 13 too.[/b]
Click to expand...

i tell you the other guy ive seen a few times that i think is very interesting is Jackson the Glasgow inside center/flyhalf

looks to have huge amount of talent...!

I think now that hensons injured james hook should also be considered as potential creative 12 for the lions.
[/b][/quote]

hook will be lucky to scrape into the touring party by way of there being 0 world class fly halves in the Isles. I think a starting berth, out of position, will be a step too far. You really trust Hook to not throw interception passes to de villiers, not miss tackles, not showboat, not kick craply????
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Apr 6 2009, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 6 2009, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 4 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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I think Roberts operates at 12 and 13 equally as well. It just depends on what team he's playing...if they like to send big runners up the 12/12 channel it's good to have him there because he can gives as good as he gets but he also works well at 13. I'd say, if I was made to choose I'd say I prefer him at 12...but I have just as much time for him as a 13 too.[/b]
Click to expand...

i tell you the other guy ive seen a few times that i think is very interesting is Jackson the Glasgow inside center/flyhalf

looks to have huge amount of talent...!

I think now that hensons injured james hook should also be considered as potential creative 12 for the lions.
[/b][/quote]

hook will be lucky to scrape into the touring party by way of there being 0 world class fly halves in the Isles. I think a starting berth, out of position, will be a step too far. You really trust Hook to not throw interception passes to de villiers, not miss tackles, not showboat, not kick craply????
[/b][/quote]
yes...!

Sorry but i am a fan of creative rugby, not mauls and kicking goals.. i want to see a creative 12, and 10 in the test line up. With out Henson, I believe Hook could be useful, he is a very good 12. Though ive always been a fan of Gordon D'Arcy and at the moment i would say he is probably at the tailors getting his Lions 12 shirt measured up for the first test.

Personally with regards to the way the Lions play, i'd like to see a fast pack with ball skills, a creative 9 10 12, and fast back four,

I can definatly see several journalists' argument for playing wallace at 6 and williams at 7 with a solid 8 like Healsip, Leamy or jones. the Blindsides that i think shine should wallace not go at 6 are Croft and Ferris.

we have the potential of a mobile ball handing front row in flannery, gethin and either murray or jones, all have a high tackle count in defense and plenty of involvement in attack.

and hopefully POC and whoever his partner is, (i'm guessing Alun Wyn), are athletic ball winners. who can run as well

i dont want to see crash ball and driving and mauling forwards because i think the Safas will have an advantage over the Lions in turning over Lions ball.

id like to see the Lions try to keep the ball in their hands and in with a high ball in play time, a similar game plan to what wales used last year to win the grand slam, but hopefully with a few new twists.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 4 2009, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I'd find it hard to understand the non financial side of Flutey's commitment, objectively, from a player that has previously tried to beat the Lions with his home team, wanting to be in the Lions and win.


Obviously as a Kiwi, playing against non Kiwis, he has as little empathy with the Boks as any other player outside of SA. I am sure he would be as determined to win the series as the rest of the selected squad. Flutey certainly seems to want to win for England.


Personally I can not understand where he would find the passion to be a Lion though ? THe Passion that other players who grew up dreaming of being in the Lions squad naturally have in abundance, while he was most likely dreaming of becoming an All Black as a kid.


I also rate a few other players higher than Flutey, even though he is currently on form. remember though form dwindles, talent remains.

My personal rating of the British number 12 list would be something like this going on what i have watched in British club and International rugby over the last few years...!

Gavin Henson

Gavin Evans (Llanelli soon to be Cardiff Blues, recently returned to fitness after injury and looks fantastic with a new kicking game added to his already magnificent abilities)

Gordon D'Arcy

Andrew Bishop

Luke Fitzgerald

Ricky Flutey



I prefer Flutey to Jamie Roberts though. I regard Roberts very highly as a player but one dimensional at 12, better to use Roberts at 13 or 15, a position where you can use his clever angles and counter attacking game that you don't see when he plays 12. To me Roberts is a wide player and i can understand why Warren Gatland was so excited to try a Henson Roberts Combo for Wales, possibly needs more time.

You have to remember that Jamie Roberts looked to be the Welsh revelation at 15 for the Welsh U20s two years ago, luckily for Wales, unluckily for Roberts as a 15, lee Byrne found the form of his career, and Warren Gatland played roberts at 12 during the WElsh tour of SA last summer.[/b]
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Did you seriously just say Gavin Evans is the second best 12 in Britain :huh: as a Blues fan I;m glad he's signed and all (mostly becuase we need cover now that Robinson has gone to Toulon) but come on! He's nowhere near as good as D'Arcy or Flutey. I doubt Bishop is ahead of them either, despite being a very good player. I have no doubt Flutey would be a very good player to bring on the Lions, but I just don't like that he's only playeing for England because he's not good enough for the All Blacks. But then again, same can be said for other players too, for example it's likely Joe Bearman (who I rate very highly) will be capped by Wales in the summer tour to Canada and the US, even though he's English. But the difference there is I think it was the Dragons who gave him his first break at top level Rugby.
 
Wenn Hook spielt bei 12, dann kann mir Meyer!

Translation: If Hook plays at 12 then you may call me Meyer!

Its an old German saying..
 
If he's named (Flutey) even in the training squad I think I'll start a petition, for all the good it'll do. I really don't want him to go, at all. Not one bit, it's probably one of the worst case scenarios for me.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
If he's named (Flutey) even in the training squad I think I'll start a petition, for all the good it'll do. I really don't want him to go, at all. Not one bit, it's probably one of the worst case scenarios for me.[/b]
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i can think of a lot better things to start a petition about than the selection of a quite good player onto the lions tour...
 
Nah, it kind of goes against what I like about the Lions...it's one of the rare situations where I side with the more stoic side of rugby, I'm not denying that he's a good player, but he's not British...he qualifies for English rugby, but I don't think he should qualify for the Lions, on the grounds that he was born in New Zealand...and you know, this whole residency thing is total horseshit; in this particular case anyway.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Nah, it kind of goes against what I like about the Lions...it's one of the rare situations where I side with the more stoic side of rugby, I'm not denying that he's a good player, but he's not British...he qualifies for English rugby, but I don't think he should qualify for the Lions, on the grounds that he was born in New Zealand...and you know, this whole residency thing is total horseshit; in this particular case anyway.[/b]
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if it's about not being British or Irish for that matter than why not be ****** off over someone like Hines or Cobain in 2005
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 10 2009, 04:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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Nah, it kind of goes against what I like about the Lions...it's one of the rare situations where I side with the more stoic side of rugby, I'm not denying that he's a good player, but he's not British...he qualifies for English rugby, but I don't think he should qualify for the Lions, on the grounds that he was born in New Zealand...and you know, this whole residency thing is total horseshit; in this particular case anyway.[/b]
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if it's about not being British or Irish for that matter than why not be ****** off over someone like Hines or Cobain in 2005
[/b][/quote]
Brett Cockbain ?

He has welsh parents ?

I don't think Flutey does, and don't you think he most probably spent is whole life wanting to be an All Black, not laying for the Lions...?
 
He played for the NZ Maori, I have made this point in other threads. I refuse to repeat myself...unless I'm talking about going on murderous rampages.
 
in my opinion, the fact that he has played with extreme commitment over the last five years, and played so well for england during the six nations is merit enough for him to go on the tour, regardless of whether he is really english
 
To be honest I think it depends if he wants to stay in England his entire life or if he goes back to New Zealand.

It is sort of like if England decided to not let a new imigrent become a millionair in England because he was born in another country and therefore could be takeing the millions a born english person could earn. It wouldn't happen. If Ricky Fluety wishes to see the rest of his life living in England there he is english.

And I bet if he scored the winning drop goal that won the lions toar against SA then anyone who disagrees with him being in the squad, will sing their praises of him...
 
He has signed a contract to play in France next year, so I doubt he wants to spend the rest of his life in England.
 
If he has then I think that it is a bit cheeky he could be selected. However the man has done nothing wrong, it is the rules and selectors fault.
 
There are plenty of English Test rugby players not playing in England, how is this any different?
 
How many? One I think you'll find, Andy Goode. We don't want him anywhere near the England or Lions squad thanks.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 9 2009, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 10 2009, 04:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 8 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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Nah, it kind of goes against what I like about the Lions...it's one of the rare situations where I side with the more stoic side of rugby, I'm not denying that he's a good player, but he's not British...he qualifies for English rugby, but I don't think he should qualify for the Lions, on the grounds that he was born in New Zealand...and you know, this whole residency thing is total horseshit; in this particular case anyway.[/b]
Click to expand...

if it's about not being British or Irish for that matter than why not be ****** off over someone like Hines or Cobain in 2005
[/b][/quote]
Brett Cockbain ?

He has welsh parents ?
[/b][/quote]

Brent Cockbain, born in New South Wales, represented Australia at under 19 and under 21 level and only qualified for Wales under the residency rule in 2003.

Parents had nothing to do with it and even mentioning them is a cop out. There is no difference between Flutey and Cockbain. Both are born overseas, both are essentially the same and have come over here looking for better opportunities.

Trying to paint his move to France as a lack of commitment is a bit desperate and again reeks of double standards. What about all the English and Scottish players that have gone south in the last few years? Chris Cussiter, Nathan Hines, Perry Freshwater (South African born by the way), Ben Cohen, Andy Goode, Dan Luger and soon more will be heading south. How are they any different?

Rugby players have to eat and have to provide for their families. They don't have long and a career ending injury these days could be only one match away. You saw it with Danny Cipriani and his horrifying ankle injury. There was a chance he could end up having his ankle amputated at the age of 22.

Hypocrisy. Give Flutey a break.
 
There are as many players from NZ/Aus in the Lions as there are Scots,, makes me giggle
 

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