<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Mar 30 2009, 01:05 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 30 2009, 12:57 AM)
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Mar 30 2009, 12:24 AM)
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Riki Flutey is un-doubtably a class player, and a superb 12 who does have a decent shot at touring with the Lions in the summer. But it just makes me wonder whether he should be going or not, considering he's not actually English. I mean I guess there's not much of an arguement when it comes to him playing for england, because that's teh RFU's decision and no-one elses, but there's 3 other unions and sets of fans involved who may feel hard done by that a New Zealand born 'Englishman' is being picked ahead of their centres. I might be looking a bit too far into this, because for all I know they won't care because it's less likely that their star centre doesn't pick up an injury if Flutey is picked. My personal opinion is that he is a very good player, and would be useful for the Lions, but it wouldn't make much sense to me if he playes for them, when he played against them for Wellington in the 2005 tour. Can't say any other player has been in a position to play for the Lions after playing against them, so this situation is a bit unique.
What's everyone else's opinion?[/b]
Sivivatu has played for and against the All Blacks at International level. So has Lauaki.
As I see it, the Lions is picked from players eligible for England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Flutey is eligible for England. It's not the Lions' job to worry about the nationality debate.
If you disagree with whether he should be eligible for England, I'll point to some other players who nobody questioned playing for their home nations... Thom Evans, born in Zimbabwe, brought up and educated in England, played for England at all agegroup levels; Rob Henderson was a 2001 Lion... born and brought up in England.
Or if we want to argue about the non-British born ones:
Nathan Hines, born in Australia, played RL in Australia before moving to Scotland.
Brent Cockbain toured in 2005; he first played in Wales in 2003 and his brother played for Australia.
Nationality in rugby has always been a dodgy issue; before the professional game players switched nationalities, and so you get the situation where the likes of Shane Howarth play international rugby for New Zealand
and Wales. Or you get situations where half the Samoan team are New Zealanders, or if you think of Sivivatu, Rokocoko, Tuqiri.... then you have Mtawarira, Mujati and Chavhanga who are all recent Springboks who were born and educated in Zimbabwe.
If you're going to make an argument about Flutey's nationality then you have to take down at least 20 others from around the world who are playing for different countries.
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tbf, Brent Cockbain and Matt Coackbain could have played for either Wales or Australia as I think at least one of their parents are Welsh (you expect it with a name like Brent). I;m not argueing his English eligability, as that's been done and gone, just should it extend to the Lions? especially considering he played against them, and I know players like Sivivatu have played against NZ, but it's a bit different for me with the Lions, because Sivivatu played for the P[acific Islanders in a friendly right? The Lions is a huge thing, which every British and Irish player aspires to, so it's just a strange that a New Zealander in now eligble, which is differend to Henderson, who'd have been eligable anyway, if he'd stayed in England.
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The Pacific Islanders are practically the same as the Lions, but with less tradition.
As I said before, the Lions pick players from the pool of British-qualified players. Flutey's in that pool. I don't see how it's unfair on the other players, because it's their fault for not being good enough if they don't make the squad, not Flutey's for being a Kiwi. It doesn't make a mockery of the system, because the system's already been made a mockery of by hundreds of players before.
I suspect the reason that Flutey is receiving particular attention is because he's the first capable of making the Test side. Speedy's analysis of the 12 options is spot on.