Schmidt Era Ireland

[Feicarsinn]

What are you guys looking to see under the new head coach? Discuss here possible tactics, players you want to see in the green, all of that lark.


For me I really want to see Joe's take on the back row situation. In my mind we're one player short of being top class in that area. In O'Brien and Heaslip we have to players capable of mixing it with the best out there, but after them there's a definite drop off in quality in my mind (assuming Fez is broken or AWOL.) Chris Henry and Shane Jennings are both proper opensides and would allow SOB to player in his preferred blindside role, but seem to be just short of the required quality at international level. Peter O'Mahony can cover all three back row slots, but despite strong support in Munster he has yet to make an impact in green and is the sort of hothead that Ireland don't need given our recent disciplinary record.

It's quite likely that one of Rhys Ruddock, Tommy O'Donnell or Iain Henderson will be integrated into the team over the coming two years. Henderson is probably the most talented of the three, being something of a human wrecking ball and will only get better. O'Donnell is oft touted as being in the mould of David Wallace, a style of player Ireland could certainly do with and being able to play 7 he would be a natural fit in the back row. Ruddock is the furthest down the development line of any of the players mentioned and is a solid leader by all accounts, but his struggles in establishing himself in Leinster's starting fifteen over Shane Jennings and Kevin McLaughlin could hold him back.

 

[lynam1104]

What I am looking forward to most is sensible selections based on opposition and form ect. and a functioning game plan. I also want to see youth being trusted more so then under Kiddney, due to his conservative approach when injuries stuck we were lacking experience and bringing players in for their first caps mid way though the 6N when they would have not been expecting it and had little to no top level experience.

On the back row I'm not sure it could go a number of ways. I've seen a lot of people call for Heaslip to be dropped, but I'd rather see if he can under Schmidt revert back to his natural ball carrying style of play as opposed to doing the grunt work. The 6/7 jersey will take some experimentation for sure as I prefer to see a classic 7 as opposed to a hybrid in SOB but Henderson has a big future ahead of him so in terms of having the best players on the pitch that may be the way to go as we don't have any 7's in that mould atm I'd be open to TOD getting a shot at it but I'm not sure he can make the step up but we should give him the chance particularly if he picks up where he left off from last season. And all of that is not counting POM who can be great on his day but we haven't seen a lot of that in an Irish jersey.

 

[nickdnz]

In the long term Jake Heenan may be an option - he was highly regarded in New Zealand as a schoolboy before Connacht poached him.

 

[profitius]

I'm hoping to see a gameplan that actually gets the best out of the players. I'm also hoping to see more rotation and a more youthful looking squad. I hope to see some entertaining rugby at least, if they are to lose.

 

[profitius]

Peter O'Mahony can cover all three back row slots, but despite strong support in Munster he has yet to make an impact in green and is the sort of hothead that Ireland don't need given our recent disciplinary record.

Thats not true at all. Ireland were crap but he was one of their best players. On the recent tour to north America he was easily the best player. Don't let his personality cloud your judgement.

 

[lynam1104]

In the long term Jake Heenan may be an option - he was highly regarded in New Zealand as a schoolboy before Connacht poached him.

Any more info on him, interesting that he chose to leave young if he was seen as having potential.

 

[nickdnz]

Any more info on him, interesting that he chose to leave young if he was seen as having potential.

Yeah, well he has been part of Auckland development programs since he was in school - so knew coach Pat Lam very well and subsequently moved to Connacht to join Lam.

In terms of information it's mainly the wraps I heard on him while he was here. From what I've seen he is quite quick and dynamic and a good pilferer.

 

[lynam1104]

Yeah, well he has been part of Auckland development programs since he was in school - so knew coach Pat Lam very well and subsequently moved to Connacht to join Lam.

In terms of information it's mainly the wraps I heard on him while he was here. From what I've seen he is quite quick and dynamic and a good pilferer.

All right makes a little more sense now, will keep an eye on him I'm guessing he'll be first choice 7 as JohnnyOC has retired.

 

[Conal]

i'd like to see a more offensive backline,
also luke marshall i'd like to see him develop be interesting to see what happens to mr olding

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm looking forward to Schmidt's era, I want us to play good rugby and you know win some stuff.

Backrow is very interesting. If you want Heaslip to be more focused on carrying then Ruddock is your man. He's very good at the grunt work and is quite imposing, I fully expect him to overtake McLaughlin this year. However Henderson is scary talented and deserves to play while O'Donnell has been playing some excellent rugby. One player who I'm sure no one is (maybe rightly) not considering but could is a true 7 and a very talented one is Conor Gilsenan. He probably needs a few more kilos (listed as 96) but if he can add them he will be in contention IMO. Overall backrow depth is looking very good if young guys can deliver on their potential. The biggest problem is that so many of the best are with Leinster that they may not get the time they need to develop.

Another area of interest for me is scrumhalf. Will Murray be guaranteed a spot? He has improved a lot but is he so far ahead that he will always start? Will McGrath and/or Marmion fully emerge? Will Schmidt use a similar rotation as he did with Boss and Reddan? It'll be very interesting to see.

11-14 will also be very interesting in the coming year or two with 15 also becoming interesting when Payne qualifies. A lot of players will be competing with none clearly ahead except Bowe. I'm talking regards post BO'D's retirment but it will be interesting to see if Schmidt experiments and doesn't always play BO'D.

Anyway I'm optimistic and these selection dilemmas are good to have.

 

[munstermuffin]

BG8 as good as some mentioned there are unless they establish themselves in their provinces they won't be within an asses roar of national team. For me Ruddock has had enough platform and won't be next to near national level. Regards McGrath he must remove Reddan and Boss first and while I expect Schmidt to rotate some bit I don't expect it alot because with Leinster he had majority for training week in week out 5/6 days per week to learn plan and also had what 30+ games with some not mattering at times. Now he has 10 a year all spread and has squad for a lot shorter periods and well every game in season matters and he is under scope more intensely. That's why he won't risk putting lads who aren't even featuring for province in national squad. Also I'd ask regards McGrath (he's a good player) does Schmidt rate him as highly as us as he didn't use him much at Leinster.

 

[Peat]

I think the main questions for me are

Where does Henderson play? His freakish athletic potential means he's someone you want in the team, his provincial performances have been good, he's earned a shot (so have others mind), the question seems to be where does Schmidt feel he's better suited to and what do Ireland need.

Who succeeds BOD? Does this process start to happen next year? Does he go for one of the semi-established two in Earls and Cave, or look straight past to them - maybe to a younger lad like Griffin/Henshaw/Olding, maybe for Jared Payne, which is where I'd put my money. Or even Bowe I suppose.

How much is he going to interfere with provincial selections? There's been a few humdingers in that department over the last few years. Might he be tempted to intervene and get a few tighthead props promoted on double time.

Three most vital questions from an Ulster PoV.

 

[big ginger 8]

BG8 as good as some mentioned there are unless they establish themselves in their provinces they won't be within an asses roar of national team. For me Ruddock has had enough platform and won't be next to near national level. Regards McGrath he must remove Reddan and Boss first and while I expect Schmidt to rotate some bit I don't expect it alot because with Leinster he had majority for training week in week out 5/6 days per week to learn plan and also had what 30+ games with some not mattering at times. Now he has 10 a year all spread and has squad for a lot shorter periods and well every game in season matters and he is under scope more intensely. That's why he won't risk putting lads who aren't even featuring for province in national squad. Also I'd ask regards McGrath (he's a good player) does Schmidt rate him as highly as us as he didn't use him much at Leinster.

Reddan is 32 and coming back from a serious leg break while Boss. McGrath was continuously been trusted with more and Schmidt started him against the Ospreys where he got motm. Schmidt has said he rates him and as I said I'm talking up to 2015 so 2 more years for McGrath to keep improving while Reddan and Boss will probably lose some of their ability or retire.

The rotating is not based on squad rotation to keep players fit but based on the opposition and gameplan. In the H Cup Reddan often started the home matches where Leinster played more open whil Boss started the away/more physical games where we used a tighter game. Murray fits the Boss role quite well but others suit the Reddan role better.

I'd say you're really underrating Ruddock, he creates the platform and is not the type of 6 that we have a lot of.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well in my opinion Ruddock just isn't up to international level and yes McGrath is young and will be around I thought you meant immediately but Ruddock is rapidly being left in dust by likes of Henderson TOD POM add in Heaslip and SOB are hardly old and in 2 years CJ Strander could be an option and I rate lads like Dom Ryan much higher

 

[big ginger 8]

Well in my opinion Ruddock just isn't up to international level and yes McGrath is young and will be around I thought you meant immediately but Ruddock is rapidly being left in dust by likes of Henderson TOD POM add in Heaslip and SOB are hardly old and in 2 years CJ Strander could be an option and I rate lads like Dom Ryan much higher

Dom Ryan is constantly injured and I'm not sure how much of an option he is. Ruddock is a 6 so really Henderson and PO'M are his competition for the next two year. I don't even want him to start I'm just saying if you want someone to the grunt work to allow Heaslip to focus on carrying he's our best option and he is. I feel people can be too harsh on Ruddock mainly because he appeared so early but he's only 22! That's younger than all the players you mentioned except Henderson.

 

[Peat]

Will Ruddock get ahead of McLaughlin? I have to admit, I haven't seen ought to make me think Ruddock is a future international pick, but I haven't seen all of him.

 

[munstermuffin]

My point being if Ruddock was good enough then he should be alot more developed POM is a year older Henderson 2 younger and both are miles ahead. McLauglin wouldn't be in way for Ruddock now if he was a serious international standard. But Ruddock will be same as like a Mick O Driscoll for Munster. Does a fine job at ML level will fill gap if required in HEC medium level games but that's the ceiling

 

[big ginger 8]

My point being if Ruddock was good enough then he should be alot more developed POM is a year older Henderson 2 younger and both are miles ahead. McLauglin wouldn't be in way for Ruddock now if he was a serious international standard. But Ruddock will be same as like a Mick O Driscoll for Munster. Does a fine job at ML level will fill gap if required in HEC medium level games but that's the ceiling

Ruddock has missed a lot of time through injury so he hasn't had as much chance to develop. Those two are not miles ahead. Ruddock has not had many breaks since his first cap while the likes of PO'M has. I wonder if it had been the other way round would we be arguing different side of this debate. Ruddock played an international at 19 not looking out of his depth and as I said is still only 22. Saying his ceiling is that of Mick O'Driscoll is very naiive considering the limited viewing you could only have had through his injuries/ games not being televised. I should probably stop this argument now as I realise Ruddock is the sort of backrower you will never really rate.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ruddock has missed a lot of time through injury so he hasn't had as much chance to develop. Those two are not miles ahead. Ruddock has not had many breaks since his first cap while the likes of PO'M has. I wonder if it had been the other way round would we be arguing different side of this debate. Ruddock played an international at 19 not looking out of his depth and as I said is still only 22. Saying his ceiling is that of Mick O'Driscoll is very naiive considering the limited viewing you could only have had through his injuries/ games not being televised. I should probably stop this argument now as I realise Ruddock is the sort of backrower you will never really rate.

he hasn't been always injured and no I've always said that (even when he was targeted by Munster). He is a squad player and no more. Henderson has had injuries but if injuries will be used as excuse then replace Micko with Felix who has the potential to be International class but will never reach and maintain it because injury prone. Just don't think he's lived up to hype he's had and while I'd admit it was made tougher by him being capped when he shouldn't have been and increasing pressure I'd rate Henderson and POM far ahead. Both consistently putting in big performances in big games and in teams strongest 23s consistently. Ruddock isn't next to near Leinsters strongest 23 and won't be for next few seasons as current batch (Jennings excluded) have years left and there better prospects behind him.
His competition in 2/3 years off top of head:
Henderson
Stander
O'Mahony
SOB

All possibilities at 6 and all alot more progressed and better players than Ruddock. Add in more academy lads from all provinces who have potential and be it injuries or he not at level and is squad player it don't seem like he will be near

 

[big ginger 8]

he hasn't been always injured and no I've always said that (even when he was targeted by Munster). He is a squad player and no more. Henderson has had injuries but if injuries will be used as excuse then replace Micko with Felix who has the potential to be International class but will never reach and maintain it because injury prone. Just don't think he's lived up to hype he's had and while I'd admit it was made tougher by him being capped when he shouldn't have been and increasing pressure I'd rate Henderson and POM far ahead. Both consistently putting in big performances in big games and in teams strongest 23s consistently. Ruddock isn't next to near Leinsters strongest 23 and won't be for next few seasons as current batch (Jennings excluded) have years left and there better prospects behind him.
His competition in 2/3 years off top of head:
Henderson
Stander
O'Mahony
SOB

All possibilities at 6 and all alot more progressed and better players than Ruddock. Add in more academy lads from all provinces who have potential and be it injuries or he not at level and is squad player it don't seem like he will be near

Towards the end of the season Ruddock was getting in every 23 he started the Amlin and subbed the Rabo final so yeah he's pretty damn near the strongest 23 I think. He is quite likely to get ahead of McLaughlin this year. The flankers coming up at Leinster are nearly all 7's and too small for 6 at pro level Ryan is his next biggest threat after McLaughlin.

I'm talking about Ruddock becoming a possibility if Schmidt wants a grafter to allow Heaslip to carry which is not guaranteed. O'Mahony is not able for that role, SO'B will be at 7 and is not in competition for the 6 spot currently. Stander hasn't really done anything since arriving in Ireland except maybe his debut to suggest he should be competing with Ruddock in his secondary position and saying he's "a lot more progressed and better" is way over the top. Therefore that really leves only Henderson in this hypotheical situation. Henderson can play the grafter role but it's not his natural role. He's much better when he's allowed go smash people with the ball in hand on ther other hand Ruddock flourishes in this role. He is the best we have for this role just because he doesn't make line breaks doesn't make him ordinary.