• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Should the Pumas stay in the RC, for the next seasons. Yes or No? Argue

Wrong. He was never moved to 10 due to kicking duties, he never kicked when Contepomi was in the side.

He was moved there because his kicking game (not goal kicking) was amazing in 2007, it killed France, it killed Ireland, for the Argentina's gameplan, you can't put a guy who kicked like him at FB and not at FH. In 2007.

Today is nowhere near those standards, and nowhere near Wallaby n.10 jersey and with Lambie somewhere in South Africa, neither close to the Springbok n. 10 jersey.

Not talking about the darkness.
 
Yeah but that's like saying Michael Jordan will take some attention off of you. Pichot carried that Pumas backline for so long.

I wouldn't say Pichot "carried" the backline. What do you mean by that? How did he "carry" the backline?

There were other good players in that backline like Hernández, Contepomi and Corleto all at their peak, to say that they were only good because of Pichot does them a bit of a disservice.

Pichot wasn't even a type of scrum half who box kicked often, and passing wasn't his main asset so it can hardly be said that Hernández was good "because of Pichot" either.

Zero chance he replaces Beale for the Wallabies. I doubt he would get in ahead of Barnes at 10 either. And ok he might be about as good as Kirchner, but arguably so are Lambie and other Saffas. If they can't get in ahead of Kirchner then why would Hernandez?

Lastly, please enlighten me as to who Hernandez would replace in the AB squad let alone the matchday 22.

There's not "zero chance" he replaces Beale either. Beale was quality in 2010 at full back, but was off form this year when he played 15 and wasn't convincing under a high ball, and got dropped for Barnes to play there one match. Hernández offers more at fly half and full back than Barnes does. Hernández would easily be better than Kirchner, I don't know what you're talking about he's "only as good as Kirchner". Did you not see his run to create the Farías Cabello try in Australia? That's more in attack than Barnes has done, and although Hernández hasn't done it so much he is still capable. He is also a much better punt kicker than these players like Barnes you think are better, and is one of the most skilled at that. He is very good under the high ball and is a very solid tackler.

Hernández was world class, and still is a good player just has struggled with over 2 years of constant back injuries, and he hasn't comeback to his best immediately. But he by no means a poor player as you are saying, and is arguably a better 15 than he is a 10 and some of you probably don't remember his quality from 15. As for the All Blacks squad, he would replace one of the reserve fly halves.

Between 2005-06 he was the best full back in the Top 14, and between 2007-08 he was the best fly half in the league and was awarded the Oscar du Midi Olympique two years running between 2007 and 2008. He was generally considered the best fly half at the RWC 2007, and the second best fly half in the world at the time. He led Stade Français to the 2007 Top 14 ***le where he was immense in the final, and also led Argentina to 3rd place in the World Cup where he was immense throughout. Fair enough that he hasn't been able to replicate those levels since, but he hasn't become a terrible player and it's pretty obvious he's still better than players like Kirchner and Barnes.



He was moved there because his kicking game (not goal kicking) was amazing in 2007, it killed France, it killed Ireland, for the Argentina's gameplan, you can't put a guy who kicked like him at FB and not at FH. In 2007.

Today is nowhere near those standards, and nowhere near Wallaby n.10 jersey and with Lambie somewhere in South Africa, neither close to the Springbok n. 10 jersey.

Not talking about the darkness.

No he wasn't moved there because of his kicking game. Argentina already had an excellent kicker in Federico Todeschini at the time, he was moved there because he himself wanted the 10 shirt. Simple as that.

He would have a very good chance of getting into both the Australian and South African sides. That is extremely overrating the quality of Barnes, Cooper and Beale this year none of whom have stood out whilst with the Wallabies. Whilst I think Lambie is South Africa best 10 and has been unfairly non selected this year, he would at least be close to that jersey and would get in the team somewhere.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes the Pumas should stay. Its long overdue. They've always been known as a dark house for any team because of their unpredictability.

They will improve and could easily become in the worlds top 3 as they have proven in the RC. Despite not winning a game they showed their worth. They're gonna take a few losses and perhaps a few thrashings but they will improve from that. Some might argue 'but if we play the tri-nations teams all the time, we'll lose our unpredictability, they'll know how we play..' thats nothing compared to what they stand to gain from the RC.

Argentine Rugby already knows this thats why theyre here. Its the SANZAR teams that are putting it on the line here because in the Pumas they could create a monster they could give them headaches on the field in years to come but SANZAR nations would say 'thats we want, its for the good of the game'...I dont know.
 
Last edited:
There's not "zero chance" he replaces Beale either. Beale was quality in 2010 at full back, but was off form this year when he played 15 and wasn't convincing under a high ball, and got dropped for Barnes to play there one match. Hernández offers more at fly half and full back than Barnes does. Hernández would easily be better than Kirchner, I don't know what you're talking about he's "only as good as Kirchner". Did you not see his run to create the Farías Cabello try in Australia? That's more in attack than Barnes has done, and although Hernández hasn't done it so much he is still capable. He is also a much better punt kicker than these players like Barnes you think are better, and is one of the most skilled at that. He is very good under the high ball and is a very solid tackler.

Hernández was world class, and still is a good player just has struggled with over 2 years of constant back injuries, and he hasn't comeback to his best immediately. But he by no means a poor player as you are saying, and is arguably a better 15 than he is a 10 and some of you probably don't remember his quality from 15. As for the All Blacks squad, he would replace one of the reserve fly halves.

Between 2005-06 he was the best full back in the Top 14, and between 2007-08 he was the best fly half in the league and was awarded the Oscar du Midi Olympique two years running between 2007 and 2008. He was generally considered the best fly half at the RWC 2007, and the second best fly half in the world at the time. He led Stade Français to the 2007 Top 14 ***le where he was immense in the final, and also led Argentina to 3rd place in the World Cup where he was immense throughout. Fair enough that he hasn't been able to replicate those levels since, but he hasn't become a terrible player and it's pretty obvious he's still better than players like Kirchner and Barnes.

He would have a very good chance of getting into both the Australian and South African sides. That is extremely overrating the quality of Barnes, Cooper and Beale this year none of whom have stood out whilst with the Wallabies. Whilst I think Lambie is South Africa best 10 and has been unfairly non selected this year, he would at least be close to that jersey and would get in the team somewhere.

He was good 5 years ago, nobody is going to deny that. But he a) wouldn't get a sniff of the AB squad and b) wouldn't start for either of the other two. If he was better than all the Aussie backs he might have led them to a home victory over a B string aussie side. But he couldn't do that. When has he outplayed Kirchner? I'm not even a fan of the guy but he has been at least as effective, if not more so than Hernandez in the RC.

I don't think he is a bad player at all, he is good. But if you were to make a tournament XV from the RC he wouldn't make the bench. My point is that he has been living on his reputation from 5 years ago.
 
The answer is yes!

New warriors are good to the game. Los Pumas need an ambitious coach, that´s all :cool:
 
BUMP !!!!!!!


No. Argentina should not stay in TRC...they're too good for the other nations. S'just not fair.
 
If Pumas remain in the competition, you should also give the opportunity for other teams such as Samoa. If Samoa don't have opportunity, then Pumas should be left out. At present Samoa is almost the same level as Pumas or even better, they could beat a Wallabies declined in Australia, while Pumas couldn't beat a Wallabies declined in Australia or in your own home.

Regards
 
If Pumas remain in the competition, you should also give the opportunity for other teams such as Samoa. If Samoa don't have opportunity, then Pumas should be left out. At present Samoa is almost the same level as Pumas or even better, they could beat a Wallabies declined in Australia, while Pumas couldn't beat a Wallabies declined in Australia or in your own home.

Regards
As you say: they "could" beat Australia, but is just a personal appreciation.
The Samoans beat in the last 12 months Italy, Wales and Scotland.
Argentina beats in the last 12 months Italy, France, Wales and a draw with Southafrica.
So, about Samoa beating Australia, I will not say it so easily man.
Super regards.
 
If Pumas remain in the competition, you should also give the opportunity for other teams such as Samoa. If Samoa don't have opportunity, then Pumas should be left out. At present Samoa is almost the same level as Pumas or even better, they could beat a Wallabies declined in Australia, while Pumas couldn't beat a Wallabies declined in Australia or in your own home.

Regards
Didn't Samoa concede 8 tries against the Springboks recently? :p
 
In my opinion they should go back to the Tri Nations format. This year the RC starts two weeks after the S15 final and runs till 5/10 and then immediately followed by the EOYT. That's too much international rugby.
 
As you say: they "could" beat Australia, but is just a personal appreciation.
The Samoans beat in the last 12 months Italy, Wales and Scotland.
Argentina beats in the last 12 months Italy, France, Wales and a draw with Southafrica.
So, about Samoa beating Australia, I will not say it so easily man.
Super regards.

Just a personal appreciation????????????



Samoa beat Australia 32-23 in massive upset in rugby

Test at Sydney's ANZ Stadium


Samoa dealt Australia a reality check eight weeks out from the Rugby World Cup with a stunning 32-23 upset victory over the Wallabies in Sydney.

Tiny Samoa, population 180,000, out-scored Australia four tries to two to post their first win over the Wallabies in front of almost 30,000 shellshocked fans at ANZ Stadium.
The embarrassing defeat - which reversed Australia's 74-7 trouncing of Samoa in their last meeting with the Pacific Islanders at the same venue six years ago - is a major setback six days before the Wallabies launch their Tri Nations campaign against world champions South Africa.

"It's given us an awakening in terms of what's going to be required to be competitive within six days," Australia coach Robbie Deans said, admitting the bruising Samoa had beaten the Wallabies in the physicality stakes. "We're starting from scratch."

Wallabies Squad:

15 Mark Gerrard
14 Rod Davies
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper
12 Pat McCabe
11 Digby Ioane
10 Matt Giteau
9 Nick Phipps
8 Ben McCalman
7 Matt Hodgson
6 Rocky Elsom (c)
5 Nathan Sharpe
4 Sitaleki Timani
3 Ben Alexander
2 Stephen Moore
1 Sekope Kepu.

Substitutes: 16 James Hanson, 17 Pek Cowan, 18 Dan Vickerman, 19 Scott Higginbotham, 20 Beau Robinson, 21 Will Genia, 22 Kurtley Beale.

Beat Wallabies in Australia is something that Pumas couldn't do last year and Samoa have recently achieved.

Regards
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah but Pumas conceded 7 tries against Ireland at the end of last year...

yeahhh....that was pretty bad for the Argies...forgot it was SEVEN tries they took....I mean at this point physical freshness is obviously a factor. None of the SH teams were great that Tour, even NZ conceded a big loss in Twickenham, and weren't exactly terrifying in Cardiff either....Samoa was very good though, but I mean the 4-nation sides...well others could make the argument that those sides, coming off a tournament of their own, had played together and were anything but rusty and had better chemistry than the Euro sides which hadn't played together in months...

Anyways:
when the hell's the next time the Pumas are playing the Samoans ?!
 
I'm starting to think Hernández should move back to 15. He is probably the best in the world at up and unders, but he lacks some variation to his game that he had pre-injuries. He used to run at the line a lot more than he has been doing. Whilst his up and unders would still be at use from 15.

He is capable of being a great player from 10 also though, in 2007 he was immense in the Top 14 final and the World Cup of course. He's still a good player, but injuries have lessened the great player he could have been.

Hernandez the best fullback in the world??? Do you usually look Racing Metro Games?

Regards
 
Last edited:
What? Cooper was poor against the Pumas, he dropped the ball, threw crap passes and was charged down to conceded a try. To suggest he is "so much better" when he was clearly off form and out of sorts is ridiculous. Hernández can also tackle well unlike Cooper.

Despite this, Cooper gave a great pass for Pat McCabe to make the second try. QC also won a Super rugby tournament, you can't compare to QC with Hernandez, when QC won a Super Rugby tournament and Hernandez failed in Sharks.

Regards
 
Hernandez the best fullback in the world??? Do you usually look Racing Metro Games?

Regards

He said best in the world at up and unders. In fact he clearly stated he has fallen off his game and didn't end up becoming the legendary player he could have.
 
well, he can be DAMN exciting to watch, that's for sure...reaaally hope we'll see some more of that gorgeous attacking like last year's tournament, this year...those two tries in a row in Australia were just Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel all over again...
well the one Hernandez started really, the other was a charge-down...
 
Last edited:
Of course Pumas should stay in the RC...you just can't leave a team like that out of an international annual competition. It's true Samoa is at Tier 1 level right now and a bit unfair they can't get the international top level exposure needed to remain there, but at least the have a place in the PNC against emerging teams. Even Fiji is from time to time above Tier 2 or right in the middle of Tier 1 and Tier 2.

Keeping the best teams playing is the best thing for rugby growth. After a couple of good results of Argentina against SA, AUS or NZ, rugby on not only there, but in Uruguay or even in Brazil too could get a serious boost up.
 
Top