South Africa vs British and Irish Lions - Test 2

[ChicagoKid]

What rassie has done is taken the pressure off of his team an onto the officials. Jose and fergie where amazing at it.
The calls faces where obviously going against them even the advantage call was terrible how can one get 8 seconds the other 23? Obviously they are human but the case in point is ref the game equal.
I don't think you can say it was.

Hamish Watson's hit was the most blantant. That was a clear-cut yellow card point blank.

 

[Die Bokke]

Hamish Watson's hit was the most blantant. That was a clear-cut yellow card point blank.

I deleted it after posting will reply again later when I'm not rushing!

 

[Jakedood]

Hamish Watson's hit was the most blantant. That was a clear-cut yellow card point blank.

Agreed

But its also pretty poor to say "if we'd got the yellow/red we'd have won"
Shouldn't need to rely on that, especially given no harm came to leroux (as I said was a yellow but altering mindset)
If you need players off the pitch to win, just wear red and sing land of my fathers

 

[ChicagoKid]

Agreed

But its also pretty poor to say "if we'd got the yellow/red we'd have won"
Shouldn't need to rely on that, especially given no harm came to leroux (as I said was a yellow but altering mindset)
If you need players off the pitch to win, just wear red and sing land of my fathers

I thought Irish people were supposed to be cheerful and easy-going?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I feel most sorry for Eddie

How will he ever possibly top this?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I feel most sorry for Eddie

How will he ever possibly top this?

One hour racist tirade against the other 6 nations countries.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Whilst this is no guarantee anything will happen, it does appear Erasmus may have gone too far with his comments.

 

[saulan]

Whilst this is no guarantee anything will happen, it does appear Erasmus may have gone too far with his comments.

Has your username ever been more apt?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

If Rassie is to be trusted, it appears that the appeal process in World Rugby is pretty broken. Multi-week reviews for on-field decisions is a farce. They should have full reports within 48-72 hours.

WR is not unlike any other top-heavy bureaucracy (damn, I always have to take at least 3 tries before the spell checker gives me the all clear on that damned word). The biggest farces are always those involving lopsided bans. I suppose it comes with the territory. TBF I wouldn't even pick up my phone on a Sunday evening for anyone bar family.

The more time I spend away from it I dislike Rassie's approach more though I understand his frustration. I think non-South Africans easily lose sight of 1 bit of context; Our team won a Rugby Championship and then a RWC and then.. boom.. no rugby for almost two years right when we were on a high. So, That puts this series in a unique context in that it amplifies every emotion, right now the main emotion being frustration.

That said I don't like what Erasmus has done here. I am fully behind him showcasing the clips he had but I dislike the insinuations he made and I feel it was poor from him to disclose backroom conversations and get personal the way he did and where he even said he gave assurance of not going to the media relating to private convo's. Leave the insinuations for Gatland. If it was just straight and honest, fine and bugger WR's draconian laws but he went too far and got personal.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Has your username ever been more apt?

LOL. I bet Rassie wishes he could put that jersey on one last time!

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I will try to address the issue from a different angle. Forget Lions vs RSA for a minute, or at least try.

We have a former player, from a tier 1 nation, coach, world cup winner, that looks at a game his team was involved in and does not understand either how the ref is calling the shots or the rules themselves.
And it's not 1 or 2 plays. It's a LOT of the calls. He is not alone and watching how we argue about plays in any thread here is another perfect example.

Just think for a second about this: this guy breaths rugby and cannot explain ~30% of the calls in the most important rugby game of the year. That is a pretty big red flag. Imagine, just picture it for a second, how that impacts the people you want to attract to the sport.
And it's not that the ref made a mistake and we know what the right call should have been. We don't know that either.

This is an issue and an issue that has been dodged for a long time. The elegant excuse is generally something along the lines of 'ref's do not need more pressure'. Fine. bloody fine. Then WR needs to step the **** in and address the issue. Refs need more resources? Better training, more people, twice the pay? (None of that would move the needle at tier 1 btw) Sure, all in, where do I sign?
As long as that comes with no more silly excuses and accountability. I want to know, without much doubt, what the ref should be calling when i watch a play.

As much as you might dislike his methods and particularly his timing, i can't help but to appreciate what RE is doing. I really do. Why? Because a) i think it is very important, b) no one else apparently has the balls to do it and c) he is using his position to make it an issue that has to be at the very least heard.

Let me rephrase: i don't care what the impact is for the tour. I care what the impact is for rugby. I wish, i sincerely wish, every coach would do the same till WR deals with this.

Again, world cup winning coach saying, out loud, 'i do not understand the rules'. Not 'i disagree with the ref here' or 'i saw something different. Again: 'i do not understand how the rules are being enforced'. That is quite a statement.

I for one am very, very happy about this.

 

[big ginger 8]

I feel most sorry for Eddie

How will he ever possibly top this?

He'll call Sexton's mum and give out to her for letting her son keep playing rugby.

 

[ncurd]

Snip

The problem is Erasmus making these arguments in good faith in which case there is a fair point here or is it gamesmanship trying to influence the ref?

Sadly it's the latter and not the former.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

Refereeing will never be consistent because it's impossible to achieve. You will never have consistency when enforcement is largely interpretation, e.g. what counts as mitigation, what counts as not support body weight, how late does a tackle need to be, how long can an advantage last, when does an attempted interception become an intentional knock on, how many penalties in a centrain area before a card etc...

All of those question have nuance to them. Ultimately, the answer is largely "it depends on the context of the match being played"

You can try to improve consistency but it will never be perfect. It's a pointless complaint to even make

 

[ChicagoKid]

Refereeing will never be consistent because it's impossible to achieve. You will never have consistency when enforcement is largely interpretation, e.g. what counts as mitigation, what counts as not support body weight, how late does a tackle need to be, how long can an advantage last, when does an attempted interception become an intentional knock on, how many penalties in a centrain area before a card etc...

All of those question have nuance to them. Ultimately, the answer is largely "it depends on the context of the match being played"

You can try to improve consistency but it will never be perfect. It's a pointless complaint to even make

You could simplify the rules and make things more clear cut. Better yet, why not have multiple refs on the field? Have one ref watching the attacking team and a ref on the opposite side watching the defending team.

 

[Die Bokke]

The problem is Erasmus making these arguments in good faith in which case there is a fair point here or is it gamesmanship trying to influence the ref?

Sadly it's the latter and not the former.

I don't believe he is trying to influence the ref.

he has stated what was spoken about and then the lack of continuity from said conversations.
How one team has 8 seconds of advantage and another almost identical line break 22 seconds.
How a tip tackle isn't punished.
I think you're missing the point he is making in the fact that, the referee was not unbiased (subconscious obviously.)
If this is something that needs to be done to get the 50/50 calls 50/50 then so be it.
There may be an element of give us a shot at those calls, but why should he have to do this?? It's a joke that you cannot get clarification until 72 hours after.

 

[saulan]

Ignoring the Rassie whirlwind and focusing on some stadium news. Western Province's next two games that were meant to be played at Cape Town Stadium have been shifted to Newlands, which means that the turf won't get further shredded a day before the test... and that Newlands is still fully operational in terms of being able to host rugby.

 

[ncurd]

I don't believe he is trying to influence the ref.

he has stated what was spoken about and then the lack of continuity from said conversations.
How one team has 8 seconds of advantage and another almost identical line break 22 seconds.
How a tip tackle isn't punished.
I think you're missing the point he is making in the fact that, the referee was not unbiased (subconscious obviously.)
If this is something that needs to be done to get the 50/50 calls 50/50 then so be it.
There may be an element of give us a shot at those calls, but why should he have to do this?? It's a joke that you cannot get clarification until 72 hours after.

You're very gullible if you genuinely believe that. If I at 36 having never actually played rugby (watched alot) can understand that different referees have different styles (usually based on where they've been trained) and can make the odd mistake for being fallable human beings. I'm fairly certain a 48 year old world ex international player and world cup winning coach knows exactly why it happens and it isn't anything he's claiming in the media. He also doesn't need clarification he wants to influence the game coming up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't believe he is trying to influence the ref.

he has stated what was spoken about and then the lack of continuity from said conversations.
How one team has 8 seconds of advantage and another almost identical line break 22 seconds.
How a tip tackle isn't punished.
I think you're missing the point he is making in the fact that, the referee was not unbiased (subconscious obviously.)
If this is something that needs to be done to get the 50/50 calls 50/50 then so be it.
There may be an element of give us a shot at those calls, but why should he have to do this?? It's a joke that you cannot get clarification until 72 hours after.

If he was arguing in good faith, he would not be doing it by posting a 1 hour long video on social media for god sake...

This is a publicity stunt and an attempt to influence the refs.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The problem is Erasmus making these arguments in good faith in which case there is a fair point here or is it gamesmanship trying to influence the ref?

Sadly it's the latter and not the former.

Fairish point but if his arguments had no substance his motives would be irrelevant. I do grant you that is he is trying to influence the ref (at least i believe he is), but he is trying and can only do because WR left a vacuum the size of a continent there in terms of interpretation.
Are the refs gonna call the off-sides at ruck this game? Who the **** knows?
Scrums? Let's flip a coin.
Tackles? Let's see how the refs woke up that day.

That level of uncertainty has consequences. These are some of those. WR created the breeding ground for these things to flourish. Now they cry foul when their own creations goes after them?
Don't expect my sympathy. In fact, i hope it grows.


I am not particularly happy about the consequences RE's words have on the tour. I am very excited about the consequences they could (potentially) have on WR.