The Leinster thread

[irisht]

Scrumhalf

Jamison Gibson Park(27) - signed contract in 2019.
Luke McGrath(26) - signed contract in 2019.
Rowan Osborne(23) - on wc trial.
Hugh O'Sullivan(21) - signed contract in 2019.
Paddy Patterson(20) - Academy Y2

Jamison Gibson Park becomes irish QF'd in august, this will allow he, Fardy and Lowe to be selected in the same game day squad. Injury disrupted his end of season last season but before that he was having his best season in blue, can he usurp Luke McGrath as leinster's first choice scrumhalf in europe. McGrath is currently in irish camp, will he travel to the WC? it looks unlikely at the moment, but we shall wait and see. Either way he will have a fight on his hands for his position upon returning to leinster. Beyond the clear cut top two, Leinster have three young scrumhalves hoping to earn gametime, Rowan Osborne is coming off an excellent season in the AIL, he will hope he can earn a longer term contract during the world cup. Hugh O'Sullivan got limited exposure to senior game time last season but concerns remain over his development as a scrumhalf given lack of game time at the position to date. Paddy Patterson also got senior game time last season and will hope to add to that this upcoming season, which scrumhalf will ultimately win out as the third choice scrumhalf?

 

[profitius]

Scrumhalf

Jamison Gibson Park(27) - signed contract in 2019.
Luke McGrath(26) - signed contract in 2019.
Rowan Osborne(23) - on wc trial.
Hugh O'Sullivan(21) - signed contract in 2019.
Paddy Patterson(20) - Academy Y2

Jamison Gibson Park becomes irish QF'd in august, this will allow he, Fardy and Lowe to be selected in the same game day squad. Injury disrupted his end of season last season but before that he was having his best season in blue, can he usurp Luke McGrath as leinster's first choice scrumhalf in europe. McGrath is currently in irish camp, will he travel to the WC? it looks unlikely at the moment, but we shall wait and see. Either way he will have a fight on his hands for his position upon returning to leinster. Beyond the clear cut top two, Leinster have three young scrumhalves hoping to earn gametime, Rowan Osborne is coming off an excellent season in the AIL, he will hope he can earn a longer term contract during the world cup. Hugh O'Sullivan got limited exposure to senior game time last season but concerns remain over his development as a scrumhalf given lack of game time at the position to date. Paddy Patterson also got senior game time last season and will hope to add to that this upcoming season, which scrumhalf will ultimately win out as the third choice scrumhalf?

It's one position (and hooker) where Leinster have struggled to bring players through. It's surprising when you look at all their schools and population.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's one position (and hooker) where Leinster have struggled to bring players through. It's surprising when you look at all their schools and population.

9 is less surprising when you look at the style of play that wins senior cups, a good pass and you're three quarters the way there, box kicking and a snipe is bonus territory.

 

[oscar braindroll]

9 is less surprising when you look at the style of play that wins senior cups, a good pass and you're three quarters the way there, box kicking and a snipe is bonus territory.

Oh but you don't need to pass if you can box kick. Watch you all day long oh Murray boi

 

[irisht]

It's one position (and hooker) where Leinster have struggled to bring players through. It's surprising when you look at all their schools and population.

2 of the 4 1st choice 9's in the provinces are leinster produced. (Cooney & McGrath)

Munster just signed a leinster scrumhalf.(McCarthy)
Ulster's backup 9 is from leinster system also(Shanahan)

 

[irisht]

9 is less surprising when you look at the style of play that wins senior cups, a good pass and you're three quarters the way there, box kicking and a snipe is bonus territory.

Yeah.. scrumhalves at schools levels aren't asked to do enough and often fail to develop top tier skills they need at pro level.

Also doesn't help that often the majority of scrumhalves at schools level are too small/not good enough athletes for pro rugby.

 

[profitius]

2 of the 4 1st choice 9's in the provinces are leinster produced. (Cooney & McGrath)

Munster just signed a leinster scrumhalf.(McCarthy)
Ulster's backup 9 is from leinster system also(Shanahan)

All the provinces has been poor. The Welsh seem to produce a lot more quality 9s. Even Marmion grew up in Wales.

 

[irisht]

Not enough done at underage level to challenge scrumhalves to develop top tier skills that will stand up under pressure at pro level.

I know leinster have been doing scrumhalf coaching workshops throughout the province to improve scrumhalf coaching etc.

I'll be interested to see how Ben Murphy(U19/Pres Bray), Rob Gilsenan(U19/St. Michaels) and Jack Connolly(U20/Gonzaga) do out of school this year.

Also young academy scrumhalves don't play 9 enough to improve their decision making, has been a huge issue for leinster.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Yeah, I think development has been an issue with scrumhalves. Plenty have had a lot of talent but few have kicked on. Du Toit and O'Farrell in the last decade spring immediately to mind. That's not a knock on them, perhaps they weren't interested in rugby as a potential career.

As said above, John Cooney and Luke McGrath is good throughput of talent. I've high hopes for Hugh O'Sullivan if he gets a chunk of game time.

 

[irisht]

Yeah, I think development has been an issue with scrumhalves. Plenty have had a lot of talent but few have kicked on. Du Toit and O'Farrell in the last decade spring immediately to mind. That's not a knock on them, perhaps they weren't interested in rugby as a potential career.

As said above, John Cooney and Luke McGrath is good throughput of talent. I've high hopes for Hugh O'Sullivan if he gets a chunk of game time.

Du Toit tried but was deemed not good enough, last seen playing in SA.

O'Farrell played some for Lansdowne U20's but didn't have the discipline for pro rugby by all accounts.

James Kenny(Gonzaga/Lansdowne) is a player many thought good enough to make the academy and maybe progress further, but he has been blighted by injury since leaving school. He was in the same age group as O'Sullivan and Patterson.

O'Sullivan needed to be playing scrumhalf week in, week out last season.. he barely played at all.. given he didn't really play 9 in school and has had limited game time at AIL level at the position it will be a miracle if he makes it to the top level.. as he simply hasn't had the game time to improve his decision making.. this can only be really be done by actually playing the position in games and making mistakes and learning. By all accounts his skills are more than good enough.

Patterson looked like the more natural scrumhalf in his limited gametime last season, certainly made decisions quicker which was notable when compared to Hughie.

Cooney rarely played as a young scrumhalf at leinster, his biggest weakness at the time was his decision making, he moved to connacht and started playing regularly.. with that game time he has improved massively.

I'd put McCarthy in that bracket too to a degree, he failed to develop due to being 3rd choice and not playing enough rugby at any level. He was deemed above AIL and A level but rarely got starts or significant gametime at senior level to help him develop his decision making.

Charlie Rock was too light, but he had all the natural ability you'd look for in a 9. Luke McGrath had similarly good decision making at a young age, with his pass being his biggest problem.

Leo was after Craig Casey for a reason last season and it wasn't just to annoy Munster. Cormac Foley is another by all accounts talented scrumhalf but played 12 for his school last season and covered at 12 this season for the 20's. Maybe not joining the academy will be good for him and he can get a large amount of minutes playing 9 under his belt this season at AIL level. He is one of 4 scrumhalves in with Leinster Development at the moment:

Cormac Foley(St. Gerards/St. Marys) - u21
Jack Connolly(Gonzaga) - u20
Ross Barron(Blackrock) - u20
Shane Murphy(Skerries RFC/UCD) - u20

Leinster 19 scrumhalves, 3 of whom were capped as irish u18s:
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray)*
Rob Gilsenan(St. Michaels)*
Matthew Cullen(Blackrock)
Will Reilly(Portloaise RFC)*

By all accounts, St. Michaels have another star scrumhalf coming through their ranks, he helped lead them to junior cup victory last season and is involved with Leinster u18 schools this summer.

 

[irisht]

Johnny Sexton(34) - Signed central 2 yr contract in 2019.
Ross Byrne(24) - Signed contract in 2017.
Ciaran Frawley(21) - Signed contract in 2019.
Harry Byrne(20) - Academy Y2
David Hawkshaw(20) - Academy Y2

Johnny Sexton returns again fresh off signing another 2 year central contract with the IRFU, he will be absent during the World Cup, Leinster will hope he returns in form and fully fit. Ross Byrne has proven to be a safe pair of hands in Sextons absence and while he is training with the irish squad at the moment he looks unlikely to travel to the world cup at this stage. Ciaran Frawley moves into the senior squad this season, the versatile back will be aiming to nail down the 3rd choice outhalf position in the squad. His competition for that position will come from academy player Harry Byrne, who missed the junior world cup due to injury but was a star performer during the 6 nations. Finally fellow academy player David Hawkshaw will miss the 1st half of the season with injury, the outhalf/inside centre suffered a serious knee injury for the irish u20's in the 6 nations. Upon his return it will be interesting to see what position he plays.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd rather Hawkshaw focus on playing 12, I think we've always been lacking a playmaking 12 in Ireland and that it'd really suit how our teams play. I don't think it was much of a coincidence that Felipe played a lot of his best stuff for Leinster there.

 

[irisht]

Leinster 19/20 Season: Centre

Robbie Henshaw(26) - Signed 3yr central contract in 2019
Garry Ringrose(24) - Signed contract in 2018
Rory O'Loughlin(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Conor O'Brien(23) - Signed contract in 2019
Joe Tomane(29) - Signed 2 yr contract in 2018
Jimmy O'Brien(21) - Signed contract in 2019
Ciaran Frawley(21) - signed contract in 2019
Gavin Mullin(21) - Academy Yr 3
Tommy O'Brien(21) - Academy Yr 3
David Hawkshaw(20) - Academy Y2
Liam Turner(20) - Academy Y1

Robbie Henshaw and Garry Ringrose return as the undisputed 1st choice pairing in the centre, both will be off the world cup.. biggest question is what sort of state they will be health wise upon returning from that world cup. Leinster will need both to be fit and firing come the business end of the season. Rory O'Loughlin starts the season as clear backup to both at either position should one be injured, his best form in blue came however on the wing and one would wonder if he'd have been better off staying there. Even so, he will likely enter the season as first option at 13 while Ringrose is away. Conor O'Brien had a breakout season last season playing both 12 and 13, going into the season one would assume he is aiming on nailing down the backup 12 position and pushing on from there. Joe Tomane remains an option in the centre for leinster and it will be interesting to see what sort of form he shows there when given a chance by the coaches, he suffered last season from starting the season not in-shape and then getting injured seriously. We shall wait and see what he brings to the pitch this season. Jimmy O'Brien made an positive impression last season in his performances for the senior team but his position going into this season seems unclear at the moment, he could possibly line out at 12/13/15 and on either wing. It will be interesting to see where he focuses his attention this pre-season. Ciaran Frawley remains an option at 12 this season, although its expected he will be focusing on outhalf to begin with this season, we may possibly see him lining up at 12 alongside one of the Byrnes if they want to get two distributors in the backline. Three of the academy centres, Gavin Mullin, Tommy O'Brien and Liam Turner are very versatile and could line up in the centre positions or on the wing. Mullin and O'Brien need big seasons in particular as both are in the final year of the academy, O'Brien missed most of last season with injury while Mullin had one appearance for the senior team. Finally David Hawkshaw is injured, the outhalf/inside centre won't return until after christmas when he does it will be interesting to see what position he plays.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I really like what I've seen of Tommy O'Brien. If he can have an spell injury free, he could make inroads over the next 18 months. The World Cup could afford him an opportunity to forward his case.

 

[irisht]

Fergus McFadden(33) - Signed contract in 2019
Dave Kearney(30) - Signed contract in 2019
Joe Tomane(29) - Signed 2 yr contract in 2018
James Lowe(27) - Signed 3yr contract in 2017
Barry Daly(26) - Signed contract in 2017
Rory O'Loughlin(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Adam Byrne(25) - Signed contract in 2017
Cian Kelleher(25) - Signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(23) - Signed contract in 2019
Jimmy O'Brien(22) - Signed contract in 2019
Jordan Larmour(22) - Signed contract in 2018
Jack Kelly(21) - on temp WC contract
Gavin Mullin(21) - Academy Yr 3
Tommy O'Brien(21) - Academy Yr 3
Michael Silvester(21) - Academy Yr 2
Aaron O'Sullivan(19) - Academy Yr 2
Liam Turner(20) - Academy Yr 1

Where to begin? As you can see above there is no shortage of potential options... Fergus McFadden returns in what may be his final season, the leinster stalwart will want to finish on a high after an injury interrupted season but can he push himself back into leinster's strongest team? We shall wait and see. Dave Kearney had a relatively healthy season last season and showed his quality when called upon in europe, can he push for a starting position this season? Joe Tomane played some wing last season, will he focus on playing there this coming season? James Lowe enters the final year of his original leinster contract this season, a clear 1st choice for leinster can he perform at an even higher level this upcoming season? Barry Daly is coming off an injury interrupted season, regarded as the fastest player in the leinster squad he will be hoping to stay injury free and to push for a place in leinster's strongest side. Rory O'Loughlin had his breakout season on the wing, he played some wing last season for leinster and remains an option there. Adam Byrne season ended due to injury upto that point he was having a successful season at 14, he starts the preseason healthy and will hope to hit the ground running during the WC. Cian Kelleher returns from Connacht, where he had 3 good seasons, given the large number of options for leinster it will be interesting to see where he fits in the squad. Hugo Keenan earned a development contract last season while in his final year in the academy, he played 7's this summer and finished the 7's season injured, the severity of his injury is unclear so his availability for leinster remains unclear at present. Jimmy O'Brien is another player who earned a contract last season in his final year in the academy and another ex-7's player, the highly versatile back can play multiple positions where he focuses on this season shall be interesting. Jordan Larmour looks set to travel to the world cup, he had a somewhat less flashy season last season when compared to his debut season, plenty room for improvement in his game despite him being clear first choice and hopefully we see some of that in the coming season. Jack Kelly and his leinster contract seems to be somewhat up in the air, he was still playing 7's until recently and has yet to rejoin leinster for preseason, we shall wait and see if he does, if he does he faces an uphill battle for gametime. In the academy there are 5 potential wingers, from the centre/wings of Gavin Mullin, Tommy O'Brien and Liam Turner to the fullbacks/wings in Michael Silvester and Aaron O'Sullivan.. Silvester and O'Sullivan are due to play 7's next season while Mullin/O'Brien will be fighting for development contracts next season so the more versatility they show the better. Turner meanwhile will likely be focusing on developing at a position, will that be on the wing? We shall see.

 

[irisht]

Rob Kearney(33) - Signed 1 year central contract in 2019.
Dave Kearney(30) - Signed contract in 2019
Barry Daly(26) - Signed contract in 2017
Cian Kelleher(25) - Signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(23) - Signed contract in 2019
Jimmy O'Brien(22) - Signed contract in 2019
Jordan Larmour(22) - Signed contract in 2018
Ciaran Frawley(21) - Signed contract in 2019
Jack Kelly(21) - on temp WC contract
Michael Silvester(21) - Academy Yr 2
Aaron O'Sullivan(19) - Academy Yr 2

Rob Kearney signed a late extension with the IRFU to return to leinster after the world cup, he remains 1st choice for leinster in big games, how long that will continue? We shall wait and see. Dave Kearney and Barry Daly played some minutes at fullback last season and are options there, it will be interesting to see if ether focuses on fullback early in the season. Cian Kelleher left leinster as a potential successor to Rob Kearney at fullback but spent his connacht career on the wing, he returns now to leinster will his focus return to playing 15? Hugo Keenan and Jimmy O'Brien both played 15 last season with O'Brien moving there late in the season and impressing, Keenan enters the season injured so how much opportunity he will get at the position is unclear. Jordan Larmour is the presumed long term replacement at 15 for Kearney, deputizing there last season he showed some of what he will offer at the position, can he overtake Kearney after the world cup? Ciaran Frawley is also an option at 15 but it looks unlikely to happen given the need for him at the outhalf position. Jack Kelly captained Leinster A last season from fullback but his leinster future is unclear at the moment if he were to return to the setup he faces an uphill battle for gametime. Michael Silvester and Aaron O'Sullivan are both capable of playing fullback but are expected to focus on 7's for the upcoming season.

 

[irisht]

Leinster U20 squad

Spoiler

Prop
Tom Clarkson(Blackrock/DUFC)
Charlie Ward(Tullow RFC/Clontarf)
Harry Noonan(Greystones RFC/Old Wesley)
Ryan McMahon(Clongowes/Old Belvedere)
Fionn Finlay(St. Michaels)
Marcus Hanan(Clane RFC/Old Belvedere)

Hooker
John McKee(Campbell/Old Belvedere)
Bobby Sheehan(Clongowes/UCD)
Mark Nicholson(Wicklow RFC)

Lock
Brian Deeny(Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
Cian Prendergast(Newbridge/UCD)
David Maher(Roscrea/MU Barnhall)
Ian Wickham(St. Marys)
Liam Tyrrell(Gonzaga)

Backrow
Cormac Izuchukwu(CC Roscrea/Old Wesley)
Anthony Ryan(Clongowes/DUFC)
Sean O'Brien(Blackrock)
Ed Brennan(Blackrock)
Mark Hernan(St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Cian Clancy(Castleknock/MU Barnhall)

Scrumhalf
Cormac Foley(St. Gerards/St. Marys) - u21
Shane Murphy(Skerries RFC/UCD)
Jack Connolly(Gonzaga)
Ross Barron(Blackrock)

Outhalf
Conor Kelly(Roscrea/Clontarf) - u21
Paddy McKenzie(Wicklow RFC/Old Wesley)
David Fitzgibbon(Blackrock)

Centre
Gavin Jones(Blackrock)
Mick O'Gara(Pres Bray/Lansdowne)
Luis Faria(Wanderers FC/DUFC)
Adam La Grue(Terenure/Terenure) - u21

Back Three
Robert Russell(St. Michaels/DUFC) - u21
Max O'Reilly(St. Gerards/DUFC)
James Reynolds(CBC Monkstown)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels)
Niall Comerford(Blackrock)

 

[irisht]

A potential Leinster U22 side, born 1997 or later:

1. Michael Milne(1999)
2. Ronan Kelleher(1998)
3. Tom Clarkson(2000)
4. Charlie Ryan(1999)
5. Jack Dunne(1998)
6. Ryan Baird(1999)
7. Scott Penny(1999)
8. Caelan Doris(1998)
9. Hugh O'Sullivan(1998)
10. Harry Byrne(1999)
11. Tommy O'Brien(1998)
12. David Hawkshaw(1999)
13. Liam Turner(1999)
14. Jordan Larmour(1997)
15. Ciaran Frawley(1997)

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

A potential Leinster U22 side, born 1997 or later:

1. Michael Milne(1999)
2. Ronan Kelleher(1998)
3. Tom Clarkson(2000)
4. Charlie Ryan(1999)
5. Jack Dunne(1998)
6. Ryan Baird(1999)
7. Scott Penny(1999)
8. Caelan Doris(1998)
9. Hugh O'Sullivan(1998)
10. Harry Byrne(1999)
11. Tommy O'Brien(1998)
12. David Hawkshaw(1999)
13. Liam Turner(1999)
14. Jordan Larmour(1997)
15. Ciaran Frawley(1997)

Looks quality. I'd prefer a slightly different mix in the backline.

Liam Turner has skills but is a bit undersized. From what I've seen of both of them, Tommy O'Brien would be a better option at 13. I'd pick Jack Kelly on the wing that Tommy O'Brien vacates.

 

[irisht]

Leinster U20 side that lost 15-12 to Ulster A last friday:

1. Marcus Hanan(Clane RFC)
2. Bobby Sheehan(Clongowes/UCD)
3. Charlie Ward(Tullow RFC/Clontarf)
4. Cormac Izuchukwu(CC Roscrea/Old Wesley)
5. Cian Prendergast(Newbridge/UCD)
6. Sean O'Brien(Blackrock)
7. Mark Hernan(St. Michaels)
8. Anthony Ryan(Clongowes/DUFC)
9. Jack Connolly(Gonzaga)
10. Paddy McKenzie(Wicklow RFC/Old Wesley)
11. Andrew Smith(St. Michaels)
12. Mick O'Gara(Pres Bray)
13. James Reynolds(CBC Monkstown)
14. Niall Comerford(Blackrock)
15. Max O'Reilly(St. Gerards/DUFC)