The relegation run-in

[TRF_Cymro]

Think Ion's still, technically, London Irish's. He was only at Welsh on loan.

Aye and stories hes signed for Perpignan back in December.

 

[j'nuh]

It's not ridiculous as you so state. He couldn't have planned for such a short turn around between winning the appeal and the start of the season. Fact remains their backs were always up against it but they did extremely well given the situation. You cannot plan for things that are not always expected.

My biggest problem with his exit is that he's come out and talked about all the difficulties that Welsh have of staying up:
"I've had enough of the RFU and PRL"
"... everything's been done to get us back out of the division"
"If we had the £3.5m like everyone else, we'd be flying"
"... RFU and PRL don't want us there..."
"If they get new investors on the board, may be they can take it back to the Premiership. But what is the point when the funding is so inadequate?"
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/180526.html

Now, he's right on all of this, and I really feel for him and the club on the issue. But, what does it say to potential investors that a person who has been involved with Welsh for 20 years, and has brought them out of administration and essentially saved the club and is so clearly passionate about the club - leaving because everything is stacked against Welsh? It seems as if Kelvin was willing to lose a fair bit of money "for the cause". How on earth are they going to find a replacement for him now? I think his comments have made it even more worrying for any potential investor. It was a bad move by him imo, but he does deserve recognition for what he's done for Welsh.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's not ridiculous as you so state. He couldn't have planned for such a short turn around between winning the appeal and the start of the season. Fact remains their backs were always up against it but they did extremely well given the situation. You cannot plan for things that are not always expected.

That's exactly my point though, they actually fought to be promoted, had they not then they would not be in as bad a situation as they are now.
They should have declined promotion.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

That's exactly my point though, they actually fought to be promoted, had they not then they would not be in as bad a situation as they are now.
They should have declined promotion.

Declined ... not a chance. What Welsh have done is open the doors for other sides to get promoted. They are not in 'a bad' situation (it is pure media speculation, again created by the Evening Standard), they will find another person to run the club without a doubt. They came and gave the Aviva a go despite all the odds, I don't think there is an ounce or regret or even the thought of not fighting for the promotion they earned. Quite an ignorant view for yourself to say decline promotion.

 

[SelimNiai]

No club in their right mind should decline promotion. Why put the effort in for 8-9 months to, at the end, say "nah we'll stay down".

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No club in their right mind should decline promotion. Why put the effort in for 8-9 months to, at the end, say "nah we'll stay down".

Bedford (I think?) have said they'll stay down as they can't afford to go up.

While I get what the CEO guy is saying about the time they had to assemble etc. his comments about money are way Exeter were in the same position and they've done well.

 

[SelimNiai]

Bedford (I think?) have said they'll stay down as they can't afford to go up.

While I get what the CEO guy is saying about the time they had to assemble etc. his comments about money are way Exeter were in the same position and they've done well.

Now you mention it I remember that. I'll rephrase to say no club should refuse it unless they have very good reasons to.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Equally, if a club wants to go up, they should actively prepare for it.
What doors have they opened? They are not exactly the first championship side to get themselves promoted...

 

[j'nuh]

Another thing I don't get: using playoffs to decide who goes up at the end of the season from the Championship means that the team that flourishes in knockout rugby could very well beat the team that performs through a long season. But the Premiership is a long season, and teams need to be prepared for that. For example, wouldn't it have been better in retrospect, for all involved, if Bristol had gone up as season winners, and not Welsh? Also, if Newcastle are beaten in the playoffs and another team were to go up?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I completely agree.

 

[TrueSlawter]

They have to have some degree of control so that they can make at least some attempt to have teams outside London.
I can perfectly well understand why they wouldn't want a team like London Welsh in the premiership.

Like I said, all they can do, short of kicking out long-established teams is to ensure that no teams are adding to the problems related to capacity and primacy.

Why not get the RFU / PRL (or whatever it is again) pick and choose who gets in then? no promotion / relegation just pick where they want teams to be and go from there?

If a london based team gets promoted then they should be promoted as long as they meet whatever criteria is set.

 

[SelimNiai]

Why not get the RFU / PRL (or whatever it is again) pick and choose who gets in then? no promotion / relegation just pick where they want teams to be and go from there?

If a london based team gets promoted then they should be promoted as long as they meet whatever criteria is set.

'Cos the RFU have their friends and if one of their friends is in danger or relegation they'll abolish it that season, same if the team set to be promoted is one of their frinds or not.

I dare Leicester to get relegated next year, just to see what the RFU do.

 

[psychic duck]

I strongly believe that there should be 2 up 2 down. With playoffs deciding the 2nd team like they do in the Top 14 and in Football. Either that or a playoff between the 2nd in the Championship with the 2nd bottom of the Premiership.

That would make both leagues more exciting, but it seems that PRL are simply too scared to allow the leagues to get a bit of a shake up now and again and just do their best to maintain the status quo teams. The reports from London Welsh would certainly suggest that this was the case, as it would be if you asked Rotherham a decade again when they won the Championship a few times before being allowed up.

If there was a system where 2 went up and 2 down. The Premiership would still be exciting at the bottom of the table instead of the dead rubbers which face the likes of Worcester, London Irish and Sale and London Welsh from now on. Whilst Newcastle are rewarded for their undefeated season and can prepare for the Premiership already without going through the tedious playoff process, and we can still have the excitement of end of season playoffs. Or alternatively a Premiership/Championship playoff which would also be exciting and interesting. Now the end of season will be dull for half the Premiership. Also the 2 up would be fair recognition for the improvements the Championship has made.

 

[SelimNiai]

I strongly believe that there should be 2 up 2 down. With playoffs deciding the 2nd team like they do in the Top 14 and in Football. Either that or a playoff between the 2nd in the Championship with the 2nd bottom of the Premiership.

That would make both leagues more exciting, but it seems that PRL are simply too scared to allow the leagues to get a bit of a shake up now and again and just do their best to maintain the status quo teams. The reports from London Welsh would certainly suggest that this was the case, as it would be if you asked Rotherham a decade again when they won the Championship a few times before being allowed up.

If there was a system where 2 went up and 2 down. The Premiership would still be exciting at the bottom of the table instead of the dead rubbers which face the likes of Worcester, London Irish and Sale and London Welsh from now on. Whilst Newcastle are rewarded for their undefeated season and can prepare for the Premiership already without going through the tedious playoff process, and we can still have the excitement of end of season playoffs. Or alternatively a Premiership/Championship playoff which would also be exciting and interesting. Now the end of season will be dull for half the Premiership. Also the 2 up would be fair recognition for the improvements the Championship has made.

They did that, late 90's I think it was. We lost to London Scottish (I think) and went down. Weather it was 1st in Division 1 vs Bottom of Prem or 2nd v 2nd bottom I can't remember

 

[psychic duck]

They did that, late 90's I think it was. We lost to London Scottish (I think) and went down. Weather it was 1st in Division 1 vs Bottom of Prem or 2nd v 2nd bottom I can't remember

I just googled it and you're right. There was a playoff between the Championship winner (then known as "Premiership 2") and Premiership bottom placed. Rotherham were the last team to go up like this beating Bedford in 1999/2000. They changed it to the current one up one down after that season.

http://www.rugbyfootballhistory.com/english%20_league.html

Interestingly they fiddled about with the promotion/relegation system quite a bit in the 1990's. But it seems the original system before the playoff concept was introduced and the Premiership clique established there was a straightforward 2 up 2 down system up until mid 1990's when they started fiddling.

 

[McTallshort]

'Cos the RFU have their friends and if one of their friends is in danger or relegation they'll abolish it that season, same if the team set to be promoted is one of their frinds or not.

I dare Leicester to get relegated next year, just to see what the RFU do.

They didnt save Northampton,Quins or Newcastle. also The AP is not controlled by the RFU

 

[TVH11]

Gutted for LW. Showed some real potential, but as most have stated they just lacked depth! Seen a few of their games, when they were televised, and things looked good. Seemed like a good place for the "forgotten" and "overlooked" welsh guys. I shall wear my Purple London Welsh top with pride!

So Henson, where now??? Lyn Jones seemed to have made him tick. Season in the championship will surely be good? Out of spotlight, just play!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Actually scratch this message. Got better things to do than waste my time on this matter.

 

[LittleGuy]

Bedford (I think?) have said they'll stay down as they can't afford to go up.

While I get what the CEO guy is saying about the time they had to assemble etc. his comments about money are way Exeter were in the same position and they've done well.

Yes Bedford have said they don't want to go up(at the moment), Pritchard is asked all the time in Canadian rugby circles about them possibly going up and he says management dosen't want them too at the moment.

 

[j'nuh]

I strongly believe that there should be 2 up 2 down. With playoffs deciding the 2nd team like they do in the Top 14 and in Football. Either that or a playoff between the 2nd in the Championship with the 2nd bottom of the Premiership.

That would make both leagues more exciting, but it seems that PRL are simply too scared to allow the leagues to get a bit of a shake up now and again and just do their best to maintain the status quo teams. The reports from London Welsh would certainly suggest that this was the case, as it would be if you asked Rotherham a decade again when they won the Championship a few times before being allowed up.

If there was a system where 2 went up and 2 down. The Premiership would still be exciting at the bottom of the table instead of the dead rubbers which face the likes of Worcester, London Irish and Sale and London Welsh from now on. Whilst Newcastle are rewarded for their undefeated season and can prepare for the Premiership already without going through the tedious playoff process, and we can still have the excitement of end of season playoffs. Or alternatively a Premiership/Championship playoff which would also be exciting and interesting. Now the end of season will be dull for half the Premiership. Also the 2 up would be fair recognition for the improvements the Championship has made.

This is something that I've been saying I wanted. I'd like the French model. 14 teams in the Premiership, 2 up 2 down, playoff for the second spot. Get rid of the LV, replace with an official A league tournament to run the whole season to help teams test their reserves and youth.

So Henson, where now??? Lyn Jones seemed to have made him tick. Season in the championship will surely be good? Out of spotlight, just play!

He's a little too old now for a year in the Championship imo. He's also a little too good. And too expensive for Welsh. I think Northampton should have a look at him.