The Ulster Thread

[BPM]

There were rumours swirling over the last couple of months that Paddy Jackson could be off to Exeter once acquitted. I've no idea how valid they are.

If they are to play for Ulster again, it won't be until next season when the media storm dies down.

A couple of people I know have told me Jackson signed with Exeter before the trial. Both are pretty well connected so who knows?

If not Exeter, Paddy's got a much better chance of being picked up by a French club. I'm not sure Olding has the profile to really get that much attention in France.

The trouble is, regardless of the verdict, whoever does sign them has to be prepared for a s**t storm of negative publicity which will surely be off putting.

Perhaps they need to go even further afield and try to get a Super Rugby gig?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A couple of people I know have told me Jackson signed with Exeter before the trial. Both are pretty well connected so who knows?

If not Exeter, Paddy's got a much better chance of being picked up by a French club. I'm not sure Olding has the profile to really get that much attention in France.

The trouble is, regardless of the verdict, whoever does sign them has to be prepared for a s**t storm of negative publicity which will surely be off putting.

Perhaps they need to go even further afield and try to get a Super Rugby gig?

I reckon France is the place to go, I'm pretty sure the physical distance will be nullified by the lack of language barrier. There's very little coverage of the case from what I can find in France, a couple brief articles in L'Equipe and Rugbyrama are all I could find and I follow a few French media outlets on social media, not that I've been searching its just what I have come across.

There's no chance of them playing here, the fallout is huge, rallies have been held in almost every city today.

 

[munstermuffin]

I reckon France is the place to go, I'm pretty sure the physical distance will be nullified by the lack of language barrier. There's very little coverage of the case from what I can find in France, a couple brief articles in L'Equipe and Rugbyrama are all I could find and I follow a few French media outlets on social media, not that I've been searching its just what I have come across.

There's no chance of them playing here, the fallout is huge, rallies have been held in almost every city today.

No rally in Limerick. We had better things to be preparing for

But look at you all Frenchie. We look like Bordeaux could be like the Lotto ad in few weeks

 

[BPM]

Even taking Jackson and Olding out of the equation, Ulster have plenty of other problems to overcome.

Firstly, finding and keeping a coach that wants to be there and is willing to take on the challenge.

Secondly, the squad needs a real overhaul. Murphy and Addison are both good signings and while Moore has some fairly obvious drawbacks, he's a better tighthead than they currently have.

Lots of players who are sub par in comparison to the other provinces, so lots of work to be done.

*For avoidance of doubt, I should add that Ulster are my second team.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

What positions do you think they need to recruit in most pressingly? I'd say 1, 10 and another 3.

Peter Dooley is a loosehead to take a long, hard look at. He's dropped down Leinster's pecking order but you won't find a single Leinster supporter who doesn't highly rate him. He's a future international if he can get a string of games.

Flyhalf is a difficult one. It's almost certain that Paddy Jackson will be let go. Ulster need a 10 who's qualified for Ireland and brings experience. The only player who springs to mind is Ian Madigan but he's hardly going to give up a massive salary to join a train wreck. Leinster would be loathe to lose Ross Byrne or Joey Carbery but one of them moving probably makes most sense. Other options are JJ Hanrahan and Bill Johnston. Could Tyler Bleyendaal be persuaded north?

Marty Moore helps a lot of tighthead as he's better than what's already there but there's no decent backup. I could see an experienced tighthead signed to split time with Moore.

After that, a backup 9 and second row are needed.

 

[Hanley!]

Due to Bleyendaal's injury woes, I'm not sure he'd be the best signing for Ulster. He'd be a great addition if healthy, and Munster could afford to lose him next season provided none of our other options go down. But it would be a bit of a risk.

I know moving from Leinster to Ulster really damages a player's chances of winning trophies, but I still think Carbery moving to Ulster would be good for his career. He'd get more time on the field, and gain some much-needed experience which would benefit him internationally also. It's not something that seems to be getting much genuine consideration outside of a handful of pundits, but with Jordi Murphy moving north, it's not entirely out of the question that Carbery could do likewise.

 

[munstermuffin]

@snoopy snoopy dog dog if Tyler keeps fit he is wanted here. Bill J won't be going anywhere either. JJ may be a solution but it's hard to see an advantage for guys to go up there bow

 

[BPM]

Surely the advantage is regular first team rugby? Yes their chances of winning silverware will be reduced, but how much actual credit can a lot of these guys take for winning trophies when they barely contribute on the pitch?

I've seen some Ulster fans cite the absence of internationals, but that is only really Best, Henderson and Stockdale these days so I'd say the bigger problem is that the squad is primarily made up of average players - many of whom probably wouldn't get near to the Leinster or Munster match day 23s.

Even the first choice XV doesn't look particularly strong right now.

I can't see any way for Jackson or Olding to return, so obviously a 10 is a priority, but I'd be less hung up on them being Irish qualified given that this massively reduces the options. There is still hope that McPhillips can step up, so I'd be looking for an experienced 10 who can be first choice for the foreseeable future as well as another reserve who is better than Nelson/Herron. Clearly good 10s in that category aren't exactly readily available, but with Piutau going and Jackson and Olding highly likely to be, surely there is money to spend. After his injuries someone like Pat Lambie might fancy a change of scenery? Robert Du Preez is having a good season so far for the Sharks but isn't obviously in the running for the Boks. As more realistic targets, James Marshall at London Irish is an underrated player who will probably want out after their almost certain relegation and bringing Steenson back to NI as a stop gap would be a decent solution.

The whole tight five needs looking at IMO. When everyone is available, Best, Henderson and Treadwell are decent options at 2, 4 and 5 but that's not very often. I think McBurney needs to be fast tracked at hooker and I know O'Toole is highly-rated so there may be long-term solutions already at the club, but better props and another quality lock are much needed. If I had the choice, I'd let all of Ah You, van der Merwe, Warwick and Kane go and start again. Logovi Mulipola is leaving Leicester and would be well worth a look (I'd say he's better than Moore). Matt Mullan is also rumoured to be leaving Wasps. He's unlikely to get any more England caps with the likes of Genge, Hepburn, Obano etc. coming through, so would be a good choice as a test-standard loosehead. Lock-wise, who knows?

Fullback is also a problem with Payne as good as having retired. I wonder if Addison has been earmarked to play there?

 

[Groundhog]

They definitely need work across the pack. As Snoop said Dooley would be a gem for them to get. Ed Byrne would also do a job for them up North too. Murphy is a steal for them as I think he'd definitely fancy his chances at Leinster now with Heaslip retired. If Moore is to be a success he needs to have a serious offseason and lose some serious fat. A proper motivator of a coach could help that. Addison is a good addition I would say, he might bring some much needed leadership. 10 is a tough place to fill that gap. Johnston maybe could be persuaded, but if he's ambitious must fancy his chances at Munster. How they let players like Arnold and Farrell go is really beyond me, no matter how sorted you think you are in those positions, the talent management has been a bit negligent. No idea what their academy intake looks like or anything.

 

[BPM]

TBF, at the point that they let Arnold go, he didn't obviously look like he was going to make it. Also, at the time, he was competing with Olding, Payne, McCloskey, Marshall and Cave for a place in midfield. Clearly that picture has changed quite a bit!

 

[munstermuffin]

TBF, at the point that they let Arnold go, he didn't obviously look like he was going to make it. Also, at the time, he was competing with Olding, Payne, McCloskey, Marshall and Cave for a place in midfield. Clearly that picture has changed quite a bit!

Is the issue recruitment though and identifying talent. Internal and external. Like Arnold didn't look like he'd make it but surely there a flaw that it wasn't recognised. Yes it can happen but for too long it seems Ulster haven't acted on the issues.
Really hope they do get it sorted though as we need them good.
Like Cooney has overtaken Ruan role but there still no other 9.
10s are tough to sort and they had PJ so wouldn't slam them there as it was unforeseen. But it does seem they need to really bring a complete fresh approach

 

[BPM]

I don't disagree that a new approach is needed. I'm just saying it was a little unfair to judge them on Arnold specifically. His move to Munster has worked out really well, but that didn't look like a given at the time and I think it could easily have gone the other way. Almost every club will have an example of a player who was released only to shine elsewhere.

Stockdale is the poster-boy for the academy and they do seem to be making more of an effort to bring new talent through which has lead to Rea and Timoney in particular getting more game time. Lyttle probably would have played more but for injury.

McBurney and O'Toole are my tips to be the next to break through, but that needs to be supplemented by intelligent recruitment.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

There's not much wrong with the Ulster academy. Over the last few years, producing the likes of Iain Henderson, Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Jacob Stockdale, Tommy Seymour, Finlay Bealham, Sam Arnold and Chris Farrell is a staggering return. They're unlucky that perhaps the best academy in Europe is 2 hours down the road so they compare unfavourably.

I've criticized Ulster in the past for bad talent retention. Tighthead is a disaster area yet Finlay Bealham and Conor Carey were surplus to requirements. Either would start for Ulster now. Perhaps I'm being unfair because every province makes poor calls. Munster didn't keep hold of Sean Cronin, Mike Ross and Eoin Reddan. All three were needed by Munster while they were rebuilding their squad that dominated Europe. Leinster let Andrew Conway, John Cooney and Tadhg Beirne slip through their grasp. All three would be challenging for starting spots now. Leinster have been able to mask this through quality recruitment. Ulster's recruitment has been substandard.

 

[Amiga500]

If you'd asked me tail end of last week, I'd have said neither of the two fellas would play for us again.

This week, there is a bit of a backlash to it becoming an obvious witch hunt.

The social media warriors may have overegged the pudding a bit.

In less than two days, over 10K names on a petition calling for their reinstatement, a surprisingly large amount of those are women.

https://www.change.org/p/ulster-rug...d-stuart-olding-back-playing-for-ulster-rugby

 

[Groundhog]

That petition was only at 7000 this morning, some jump. Wouldn't wipe my hole with a change.org petition, but this one is more sensible than someone who couldn't tell you what an out half is threatening to boycott Irish rugby.

 

[munstermuffin]

The lads were found not guilty so should be allowed back. Hope whatever happens they do get to play again. Regardless of what we all think the verdict should be respected

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Petition blown out of the water by sponsors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-43739327

Yeah, promiscuity isn't a great optic, but if the Bank of Ireland have an issue with young athletic guys attending parties and not spurning every opportunity for intimacy that presents itself, then sponsoring professional sport probably isn't something they should be doing.

 

[AM_Bokke]

Since it's so hard to prove sexual assault in court social institutions have a large role in taking a stand. This includes educational institutions, sports leagues and banks.

Good on Bank of Ireland for taking a stand.

 

[AM_Bokke]

An example from another sport.

The Hamilton Tiger-Cats of the CFL were going to hire Art Briles as an Assistant Coach last year.

Art Briles was fired as part of a cleaning of house at Baylor University because the football team that he was in charge of was involved in multiple rapes over many years.

Briles was never convicted of anything. Never tried. Never admitted wrong doing.

CFL fans caused an uproar when they heard about the potential hiring. The CFL commissioner eventually got involved and the league stated that Briles will never be involved in the league.

This is what the IRU needs to do.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Since it's so hard to prove sexual assault in court...

Especially when there is a complete absence of evidence and an independent female witness who observed the incident and says it appeared entirely consensual.

But yes, I do think your point is valid in other instances even if it's not one I personally fully share. Particularly if the club in question (unlike Ulster) appears to not really care if it is presiding over an unhealthy culture off the field.