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Top 14 Day 4

exactly. And it's always been that way anyways, Toulouse if anyone represents THE bastion of French Rugby and it's only natural they would have such a budget, such importance, and de facto necessarily, lots of the best players. It's only natural, and it's always been, that they would have a lot of their contingent serve for country. Nothing new. Nothing new at all. Again, 6N and occasional seasonal test matches have always existed, so what has changed ?

On the contrary, everything has changed. You just said it yourself. The Top 14 has taken on an importance that it never had before. That's the change.
The other big change with past decades, Toulouse no longer wants to play ball with FFR. The club does not want to continue providing internationals under the present circumstances, if it means the club's future and survival in the Elite is at stake.
This is what I said. Get your internationals elswhere because right now it doesn't take a genius like you to see the Toulousains currently in the national squad do not want play for PSA and his clique.
In other words. You're going to get what you pay for. a No8 like Picamoles who goes on the June tour but is unable to play. Don't you get it.

Yes having good players limited to 30 games is an issue for a coach, but that's not the problem at the root, it's something you add to the monument of Toulouse's recent failure, just on the side as a condiment. Again, other teams manage just fine with that, look at Clermont.
OOPS. You are making strictly no point here with Clermont as they have won NOTHING in Europe unlike us. They are the biggest chokers :lol:. We never had that problem.
 
They already have a good 10 in Goosen. He could potentially be brilliant. He just needs continued game back at 10, some luck staying fit and to recapture his confidence. He needs a lot of work on his defense it has to be said but he has the rest; a good long pass, the ability to take on the line, some pace for 10 and a HUGE boot. He could learn better game management but he is still young and will get there.

Yes but he will also be away with South Africa. I really liked him for the cheetahs and said he shouldn't have gone too France but he seems to have recovered well and nearly kicked a huge drop goal against Montpellier. I guess in a few years Goosen/Lambie will be going head to head for the bok jersey
 
On the contrary, everything has changed. You just said it yourself. The Top 14 has taken on an importance that it never had before. That's the change.
The other big change with past decades, Toulouse no longer wants to play ball with FFR. The club does not want to continue providing internationals under the present circumstances, if it means the club's future and survival in the Elite is at stake.
This is what I said. Get your internationals elswhere because right now it doesn't take a genius like you to see the Toulousains currently in the national squad do not want play for PSA and his clique.
In other words. You're going to get what you pay for. a No8 like Picamoles who goes on the June tour but is unable to play. Don't you get it.


OOPS. You are making strictly no point here with Clermont as they have won NOTHING in Europe unlike us. They are the biggest chokers :lol:. We never had that problem.

there are issues in your post throughout. Firstly, let's not confuse things: the Top 14 is what has changed, it has become stronger, but it isn't just because the Top 14 has risen its overall level that Toulouse are finding trouble being dominant. You can't just attribute a team's downfall exclusively to its hostile environment. Toulouse have much more than just other Top 14 sides being good to worry about. The very problem is internal, I repeat, it is not 'peripheral'. Their attacking has been stale, uninspired. Their troops have looked barely motivated at all, think the Connacht game. They've been outplayed in every fact of the game on the highest stage where they usually come through (think Munster). They've even lost at home to Racing, and what an ugly show for Novès in the corridor with Fritz. They have the highest, maybe second highest salary cap in all of Top 14 Rugby, let's ponder on what that equates to for a second money wise, and have great players all over the XV's, with good depth. They sometimes look dismantled, all over the place.

Then, as you say Toulouse don't want to give their players to France anymore because their season is at stake, that's a position of weakness. Nobody was complaining or sounding out the alarm when Toulouse were still winning, Novès ball was still working, all the while providing France some players just 3 and 4 years ago. It means Toulouse have not adapted to modern French Rugby, and elite modern French Rugby particularly, as Clermont in particular has. It means they've failed so badly internally to keep up with the rest, being head barely above water level, that they can't afford to even be the eternal French stronghold they've always been and are meant to be. They're counted on to provide some good players, Toulouse provides good players, that's just an age-old, immutable rule of French Rugby.

Then, as if it wasn't clear the first time, Clermont have been an example of what a contemporary, present-day strong French club should be like in terms of being strong on both fronts, local and European, establishing a strong and efficient rotation system, and still providing a high number of players for country. Whether they choked, lost an H Cup final (which Toulouse gladly would've settled for in 2013 or 2014, seeing what happened to them both years...) or whatever is perfectly irrelevant to the fact they've produced both strong seasons on both fronts AND managed to provide France with players without whining every - single - weekend.

Also: Toulouse players don't want to play for France ? PSA and his clique are pathetic, but you look at how guys like Nyanga, Tolofua, Maestri, Huget, Dusautoir have played as of 2014 for France and wonder just how biased that remark is.

And you tell me Clermont are chokers, I'm not talking about anything but these last 2, 3 years. Toulouse would've been delighted to have Clermont's home streak, make an H Cup Final and be generally of Clermont's mettle. Nobody even remembers what Toulouse has done the past two years in either H Cup or Top 14 playoffs, ppl only remember Castres, Clermont and Toulon.

Le mal est profond. I do think Toulouse can bounce back, although I'm positive they'll win nothing this year. They just don't have what it takes, collectively.
 
Then, as if it wasn't clear the first time, Clermont have been an example of what a contemporary, present-day strong French club should be like in terms of being strong on both fronts, local and European, establishing a strong and efficient rotation system, and still providing a high number of players for country. Whether they choked, lost an H Cup final (which Toulouse gladly would've settled for in 2013 or 2014, seeing what happened to them both years...) or whatever is perfectly irrelevant to the fact they've produced both strong seasons on both fronts AND managed to provide France with players without whining every - single - weekend.

.

You are still making strictly no point again with Clermont :huh:-
they have won NOTHING in Europe unlike us. And are nowhere near our 11 league ***les. Clermont do not have our silverware so your points are moot. I don't care if they play well. The're a talented team of chokers nonetheless. Nobody here in Toulouse look at Clermont as a reference :D
 
I have already made all these points. You're just waffling on, forcing me to repeat points I've made last year. I am all for change at my own club.

There are both internal and external factors to the club situation. I said internally I was looking forward to changes announced last June which unfortunately didn't materialise.
I said if you recall I would welcome a specialist coach to work with Servat, for example a breakdown specialist from NZ, a country where we have some good connections.
For the backs I think JBE has been thrown at the deep end and needs help. A defense specialist and/or a kicking consultant would also be a good idea. The name of Christophe Deylaud was circulating around last May-June but nothing was confirmed.

basically the staff needs to beef up. Which they haven't done.

Toulouse coaching problem is the generation gap btw Noves and Servat /JBE, also lack of a fresh input from outside. Tu prêches un converti my friend. I've been at the club for 18 years. ;)

Recruitment was poor except for Flood and Flynn. I'm not saying who should have gone. Dont want repeat.

Now last season we were quarter finalist in HCup and Top 14. Noves ain't getting the sack for that :lol:. Get used to it. He will leave on his own terms. Nothing will change now internally. Only external factors can be influenced

Externally, the club will give FFR-LNR the finger which Bouscatel has done already by resigning last year from la Ligue. If the season is under threat and Noves need to field his best XV by using all the internationals every weekend. Then SCREW the Agreement.

It's very nice of you to offer your insights. But a lot of it is just blablah. And your comparison with Clermont falls flat on its face because they're definitely not a club we look up to. A comparison btw our Trophy cabinet and theirs is not in their favour :p. Clermont have systematically stumbled in Europe. We have 6 finals and 4 wins. For all their talent they are light years from achieving that :p.
 
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I'm afraid that stacking trophy cabinets till you can't close the doors goes not give you results in TODAYS RUGBY, yes of course Toulouse were a great team and could be again, but they will have to change their ways. You seen to be bleating about everybody and anything, it seems to me that becauce Toulouse are no longer the champions that they were in the past its everybodies fault bar their own. this is what is happening in French rugby you either take it onboard annd make the necessary changes and commitments or you finish in the pack. Toulouses problems have been bought on by themselves they have nobody to blame than themselves, they signed the players who were soon to be obvious choices for the French team so how can you complain about that!!! easy dont sign all the good young French players. Very valid points are and have been made but you refuse to accept, i know nobody likes critisism but at least we care. When Montpellier signed their Argies and Georgians, plus the French Internationals, we had one season 6 Argies missing till Oct they missed the first 9 games and also the state they came back in!!! we never got Figallo back playing!!!! missing the Geogians for the secondary 6 nations the same problem, What did Montpellier do they got rid of them all and now we are a force to be reckoned with a new force that is for sure, our cabinets is reatively empty but there is time, What i'm saying is you can't carry on blaming everybody when you have to get your own house back into order. Everybody wants to see Toulouse being the team that they were but LNR / FFR and Bouscatel, all have to play the game putting the finger up as you mentioned is doing no one any good especially Toulouse, Toulouse was a fortress no one enjoyed going there, now teams are looking at it as a possible win , we did exactly that last season and play them 4 times this season with the idea of maybe winning all 4 big task but now possible. No one is having a go my friend but things are not right at Toulouse and have not been for a while, they have to make changes or suffer the consequences.
 
You seen to be bleating about everybody and anything, it seems to me that becauce Toulouse are no longer the champions that they were in the past its everybodies fault bar their own. this is what is happening in French rugby you either take it onboard annd make the necessary changes and commitments or you finish in the pack.

I haven't complained about the fact we produced internationals.It's part of our history. Have complained about their mis-management outside of the club. Not the same.

this is what is happening in French rugby you either take it onboard annd make the necessary changes and commitments or you finish in the pack. Toulouses problems have been bought on by themselves they have nobody to blame than themselves, they signed the players who were soon to be obvious choices for the French team so how can you complain about that!!! easy dont sign all the good young French players

well I won't 'take onboard' developments like the Agreement with LNR if they can harm the club.Our internationals should be a source of pride and benefit, not a reason for having FFR and their goons on our back. We don't need them. They're doing far more damage to French rugby atm than anything else I can think of. They do nothing for the game. And Look where the national side is, that's their work.

Very valid points are and have been made but you refuse to accept, i know nobody likes critisism but at least we care.

I accept the club is not doing great. I'm doing in denial. See my post above. I also said early August the club won't make the top 7 this season. that's a huge admission that all is not well.
I am their harshest critic. Again, I am all for change.It's long overdue. Noves took everyone for a bit of ride last May when he hinted at changes in the staff. But nothing happened. He was playing his audience. Wisely old fox. But I don't like this kind of communication. Because his message basically boils down to saying "we're fine as we are. No change" which is not true.

Everybody wants to see Toulouse being the team that they were but LNR / FFR and Bouscatel, all have to play the game putting the finger up as you mentioned is doing no one any good especially Toulouse.

Bouscatel was absolutely correct to walk out of the Ligue. Don't forget he is a lawyer. He could read thru the BS of the Agreement. And I support his stance agst LNR.
They should leave the club alone. This is the point I've made. Let them get their internationals elsewhere. It's not like they're doing anything good with them. They don't want play for PSA anyway. It's so ****ing obvious! Look what they've done to Picamoles last June.
The players are contracted to Toulouse. FFR had many opportunities to contract the internationals since the 90s. They never had the foresight and the balls to do it.

I'll be the devil's advocate here. The best thing that could happen now over this season would be for the majority of our Toulousains to be dropped by the national side. Which mean that Noves would have all or most hands on deck for the season. Then no excuses for him. But that won't happen as PSA is far too conservative and will stick with our boys when I think he should be looking for fresh meat.

I think our Huget Maestri Picamoles & Co have gone stale now on the international scene and no longer bring any bite or edge to the national side because they have played far too many games. Last case in point is Picamoles. I said last May I could see him as a big casualty for the club and look what happened. He has missed the start of the season and could be out until January.
 
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lol...
so Toulouse to be the only club in Top 14 to not give their players to France anymore. Says a lot about their health. Going into the next RWC, Toulouse, the one and only great Stade Toulousain to not give their players for country. Okay. You know, I'm a tolerant person. If you think that's cool, alright. Me ? Oh, I think it's bunkers beyond anything I've heard in Rugby circles so far.

Even with all their players on the field at their disposal, Toulouse will struggle almost just as much and certainly won't get far on either front.

Concocting out of nothing Toulousain players don't want to play for PSA is just suspect and downright bizarre. I quote myself again:
Also: Toulouse players don't want to play for France ? PSA and his clique are pathetic, but you look at how guys like Nyanga, Tolofua, Maestri, Huget, Dusautoir have played as of 2014 for France and wonder just how biased that remark is.
If you will just go on barking in the dark on your own, so be it. But where it matters, i.e. the actual facts, the way events actually transpired, that's pure invention.

And just as an à-côté, the likes of Vincent Clerc or Alexis Palisson have extended just how much they'd love to return to the xv de France, however dysfunctional it is. It's the biggest stage, test Rugby, playing for your country. Every player says it: "every player's dream is to make the France team, no doubt about it".




Speaking of pure invention, again with Louis Picamoles, huh ? The man said himself clearly in a couple of interviews: it's a LUNG INFECTION.


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Why in the world would he lie about that ? This is just silly...
 
Ok French Fan as you will not listen to any of our reasoning without throwing fairly mundane excuses at all and everyone, Toulouse this Toulouse, the only thing i will say is the TOP 14 will continue to operate with or without Toulouse, the Top 14 will not crumble because you and the club are throwing all your toys out of the pram!!!! that's all i have to say on the matter, if they have a problem its yours not mine, i now wipe my hands clean, you are on your own as far as i'm concerned..
 
I have listened to your reasoning and responded with arguments straight from the horse's mouth. Haven't met many long term fans like me who will admit the club will struggle this season could be out of the top 7. But if you can't argue the toss that's Ok.
 
its nothing to do with auguments or debate, its repetition and thats boring, sorry could not help myself, now i'm!!!!! gone bye bye !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
its nothing to do with auguments or debate, its repetition and thats boring, sorry could not help myself, now i'm!!!!! gone bye bye !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your own posts repeat the same arguments as well :lol: where's the difference?!
 
eh FrenchFan this isn't interesting anymore, at least not for myself and Sir gastingo either...you spoke, I spoke, gaston spoke...we know how the other feels, let's call it a day.
Bottom line is all 3 of us hope Toulouse get back on track..
 
No worries :) I sure won't need +8000 posts to make my point :lol:

ALLEZ TOULOUSE !!
 
now then children thats enough of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lets not bring this thread down to the level of many of the others!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
No worries. I agree to close the discussion.

No offense taken and none meant:)
 

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