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Transfers 2015/16

Tigs Man said:
So toulon fantastic 4 is so far:

Cooper
Vermeulen
Nonu
?
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Did they not bill it as signing the top 4 players in the world (or something to that effect...)?? If so then i wouldnt place Cooper or Nonu up there.

last one will be a second row to replace Ali Williams.... Paul O'Connell rumours seem quite strong at the minute... although i was under the impression Etzebeth was there target earlier in the season...
 
MPress01 said:
Did they not bill it as signing the top 4 players in the world (or something to that effect...)?? If so then i wouldnt place Cooper or Nonu up there.

last one will be a second row to replace Ali Williams.... Paul O'Connell rumours seem quite strong at the minute... although i was under the impression Etzebeth was there target earlier in the season...
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Can't see Paulie going BUT if he does I've no doubt we will release him from his final year if he wants to go. He owes us nothing. And he does have business interests in south of France already and it was where he got married so he does like the place and well it's why I'm a tad worried.
 
munstermuffin said:
Can't see Paulie going BUT if he does I've no doubt we will release him from his final year if he wants to go. He owes us nothing. And he does have business interests in south of France already and it was where he got married so he does like the place and well it's why I'm a tad worried.
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Agreed. Brilliant servant to the Irish cause! There is logic behind the move and no-one could blame him for taking a final few seasons to bank roll retirement!

Perhaps a good opportunity to give an Ulster man a go in the international scene in the form of Iain Henderson?
 
munstermuffin said:
This exactly. He wants to be a starter. If he progresses and develops then at end of his Saints contract we will go for him. He'd be in a stronger place to demand starting 10 jersey too.
But it's all what ifs now it's just let him go and see can we make potential a reality
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He isn't going to be starting in Northampton though, so that makes little sense. Myler just signed new deal and will be in top 5 AP points scorers of all time by end of season. He might get looks at 12 (although Pat Howard, Burrell, Pisi, Stephenson also make it crowded field) but I can't see how he is guaranteed rugby here more than Munster at 10.

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Peat said:
Like Sean O'Brien and Conor Murray went abroad last year? Yeah.

Sexton didn't fail. He was offered a new contract and turned it down to come home. I'm completely baffled as to what evidence you'd have for Ireland looking at non-Ireland based players when they have only picked indispensable players of late and next year there will only be two guys who've ever played international rugby for Ireland playing professional rugby outside Ireland, ones an 86 year old leprechaun and the other's a good trivia question.

Are Irish provinces likely to outbid the English and French at every opportunity? No, but Charles Piutau isn't going to Ulster for the bible reading groups. There's money there. There's also a stronger standard of player welfare, better chances for commercial endorsements, players' families, more chances for silverware and no risk to their international career. You say the financial landscape has changed - it's been changed for a good long time and all of the above has kept Ireland's best at home to date, with the exception of Sexton, who the IRFU annoyed, and is back now anyway.

Now, yeah, that might change - and I know a lot of Irish rugby fans who are worried it will - but if it does, it will probably be because Ireland's best and brightest hightail it out, not because a lad who's already overseas and can't attend training camps is putting in big performances. Hanrahan would have to become the best in Europe to change that... and lets be honest, if he does, he won't be staying at Northampton :lol:

p.s. Actually, I can think of 4 full Irish internationals who'll be playing abroad next season... first person to name them all gets rep, as does anyone who can add one I've forgotten. None of them are in a sparrow's fart of Ireland though, so they're besides the point.
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Given the new Bt deal hasn't started the landscape hasn't changed, English clubs revenues (particularly with franchising and making them all essentially one business) are going to outstrip Irelands b a long shot soon. I don't think it is going to be a fire sale but I think it could end up with a situation similar to Wales.
 
91jmay said:
Given the new Bt deal hasn't started the landscape hasn't changed, English clubs revenues (particularly with franchising and making them all essentially one business) are going to outstrip Irelands b a long shot soon. I don't think it is going to be a fire sale but I think it could end up with a situation similar to Wales.
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I'm sorry, have you looked at the French clubs wage budgets? The landscape has changed. The Irish are already used to being outbid. And have lost only one international, and him mainly moving because the IRFU took the ****.

Why will it be different because we can also outbid them?
 
@91jmay I doubt JJ thinks he will be starter for the big Hcup games at first, but he may surpass Myler only time will tell. However even being rotated in to play in the AP for a mid-lower tier side is far higher level than playing a mid to lower tier pro12 sides. To give a real example playing in the pro12 mid tier sides would be Connacht, Scarlets and Edinburg in the AP that would be Wasps, Sharks and Quinns (6-7-8 respectively). That is a stark contrast in quality, so even if JJ does play the same number of minutes for Saints as he has with Munster its a significantly higher level.
 
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@91jmay maybe JJ won't start but he is going over there with the 100% confidence and belief he will.

Regards rest - Howard is a 13 and winger. Not a 12. Burrell will be at RWC and is a different type of player. Also the age profile of Myler is a factor and I believe he can overtake Myler who is a limited 10 there. Also JJ can play 15.

The point also Peat makes (which is shown) is Irish packages (which include breaks during the season, welfare protocols and more flexibility) are what helps attract some NIQ guys as well as retain our own guys. It also helps extend careers. If POC had played in France he'd be well retired by now. Likewise BOD in his time. They're tough but they're managed superbly.
 
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that is good point actually, also LV Cup later rounds tend to be ok standard. Wouldn't be certain Burrell will be at RWC and Stephenson is extremely highly rated. Jamie Elliott also will be in reckoning although I'd be surprised if he holds anyone back at Center. If JJ fights his way in though fair play. He certainly could use us as a stepping stone, just wouldn't shock me if more senior Ireland players started moving abroad ala Sexton.
 
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@91jmay maybe JJ won't start but he is going over there with the 100% confidence and belief he will.

Regards rest - Howard is a 13 and winger. Not a 12. Burrell will be at RWC and is a different type of player. Also the age profile of Myler is a factor and I believe he can overtake Myler who is a limited 10 there. Also JJ can play 15.

The point also Peat makes (which is shown) is Irish packages (which include breaks during the season, welfare protocols and more flexibility) are what helps attract some NIQ guys as well as retain our own guys. It also helps extend careers. If POC had played in France he'd be well retired by now. Likewise BOD in his time. They're tough but they're managed superbly.
And frankly if Irish guys leave they may take a €100k jump in wages but will take a drop in sponsorship deals etc overall.
For example Keith Earls was offered a move abroad few seasons ago. He'd have been on a fair whack more than his national contract but he'd have lost more by virtue of
1) Sponsors in Ireland won't keep him as he's not in eyes of audience as much
2) Main branding sponsors drop it for eg Sexton took a drop in pay from Adidas as in France there's more options so slice isn't as big.
3) The stress of loosing your national spot. For example Schmidt will always back the guys at the Christmas camps and training camps over someone abroad in any tight call. It's been the same down the years always. IRFU will never compete financially with UK or France. They never did BUT they offer a much more impressive and flexible package.

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91jmay said:
that is good point actually, also LV Cup later rounds tend to be ok standard. Wouldn't be certain Burrell will be at RWC and Stephenson is extremely highly rated. Jamie Elliott also will be in reckoning although I'd be surprised if he holds anyone back at Center. If JJ fights his way in though fair play. He certainly could use us as a stepping stone, just wouldn't shock me if more senior Ireland players started moving abroad ala Sexton.
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Thing is Sexton never wanted to leave and as I said overall the financial benefits aren't all that better abroad. Basic wage is but not sponsorship deals, national camps or flexibility around festive seasons etc.
 
Peat said:
I'm sorry, have you looked at the French clubs wage budgets? The landscape has changed. The Irish are already used to being outbid. And have lost only one international, and him mainly moving because the IRFU took the ****.

Why will it be different because we can also outbid them?
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Because more teams means more options, if 5 more teams can now consistently outbid them it will have an impact. Also the cultural/language difference is a thing.
 
91jmay said:
Because more teams means more options, if 5 more teams can now consistently outbid them it will have an impact. Also the cultural/language difference is a thing.
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About 20 teams in France and 10 or so in England can easily outbid us provinces. It's nothing new seriously. Guys in Ireland can earn a hell of a lot more abroad if it's purely on rugby. James Coughlan is on €200k per annum at Pau. He signed in his very late 30's. The max he was on in Munster was €100K in his peak and was on €80k for his last season.
 
I don't think 20 teams in France can outbid Leinster, not when their first priority is still French qualified or qualifiable players. I could be wrong but I think assuming the landscape won't change is a bit dangerous to be honest. Would be interesting to see if IRFU refused to pick overseas players. All a bit unknowable at the moment anyway.
 
91jmay said:
I don't think 20 teams in France can outbid Leinster, not when their first priority is still French qualified or qualifiable players. I could be wrong but I think assuming the landscape won't change is a bit dangerous to be honest. Would be interesting to see if IRFU refused to pick overseas players. All a bit unknowable at the moment anyway.
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Then I guess you know very little about Irish provincial systems as it's no hidden secret a lot of Top 14 and Pro 2 teams can easily outbid Munster, Ulster and Leinster. IRFU have never presumed anything will/won't change but they offer what they can and if it works it works and if not then best of luck. But obviously it is as they're doing well. And they don't pick many players from abroad. Sexton is a case of he's best 10 we have so obviously pick him. Bowe was similar and made easier by he played within Pro 12 so was ok to be released back for camps and got decent rest periods too.
 
munstermuffin said:
Then I guess you know very little about Irish provincial systems as it's no hidden secret a lot of Top 14 and Pro 2 teams can easily outbid Munster, Ulster and Leinster. IRFU have never presumed anything will/won't change but they offer what they can and if it works it works and if not then best of luck. But obviously it is as they're doing well. And they don't pick many players from abroad. Sexton is a case of he's best 10 we have so obviously pick him. Bowe was similar and made easier by he played within Pro 12 so was ok to be released back for camps and got decent rest periods too.
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And both came back - Sexton left because the IRFU merked him innit, while Bowe left because Ulster went crap and came back when they were not crap.

Anyway, the horse is at the water, but if it refuses to drink, meh. The facts about what's happening have been stated and support my educated guess.
 
Peat said:
And both came back - Sexton left because the IRFU merked him innit, while Bowe left because Ulster went crap and came back when they were not crap.

Anyway, the horse is at the water, but if it refuses to drink, meh. The facts about what's happening have been stated and support my educated guess.
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But 2 completely separate ways. Bowe left simply because Ulster were gone poor but he was gone stale and had no look in with Ireland at the time. New surroundings and fresh ideas reinvented him and that lifted him up there. But again money was never the issue.
Sexton and IRFU was a game of neither giving an inch. It was obvious from second he signed that Racing deal he'd be returning to Leinster ASAP. Yes it was big money but again money wasn't exactly the sticking point.

People really need to understand IRFU and how it operates to catch full bit properly
 
Grenoble pay their players only slight more than Leinster, so I don't see how their can be 20 teams who would outspend them for Irish talent given the fact most French teams still prioritise French + SH talent ahead of other European talent.
 

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