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best_fullback

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Update 12/4/11: Survey designed here about this League: http://www.eSurveysPro.com/Survey.aspx?id=5c4e09b5-652b-4f6d-bbc9-38968797a871 Would be hugely grateful if any visitors and TRF members passing through complete it! Even if not interested in competing your opinion will be hugely appreciated to help develop this idea. Only takes 2 minutes and completely anonymous. Thank you guys! :D

Update 13/4/11: Can all members wishing to sign up please use the following template:
Member ID: Can you please put your ID so that you can be added on Xbox/PS3, not your TRF member name. I can just get your TRF ID off your post.
Conference: The timezone league you would like to play in. If you are flexible to the league you play in please state this incase not enough interest in preferred league. GMT is currently the most popular.
Console: The console you will be playing on.


Been quite bored doing revision and have let my mind wonder a lot about the forthcoming Rugby ***les on next-gen consoles - and more specifically the excitement about, for the first time on a Union game, online play.

Then I got myself thinking about tournaments I could create with my friends offline, as we had done on previous games, and the great multiplayer experiences it created. Then I thought that here, on TRF, with our massive Rugby and gaming community, we should create our own 'TRF Online League'. I proceeded to grab a pen and paper and write down all my ideas about how this could work.

Firstly I want to point out that:
  • I have not preferenced this to the HB or Sidhe ***le, and that is why it is in the 'General Gaming' thread (I think it would work equally on both)
  • These are very basic ideas that I have literally just thought of and thus not incredibly comprehensive, definitive or final, so please let me know what you think: whether it is absolute rubbish and non-viable or whether you think its great and you would be interested, and obviously any improvements or errors you think of.
Also, I know I have pre-empted this idea several months before both games actual release date but I thought it would be good to discuss ideas so if this actually has a lot of backing then we can get it up and running soon after the release.

The Overall Concept

To create a multiple league structure here on the forum consisting of TRF members who will compete in online games against each other, record the scores, report back to the forum and update the table. The aim of the leagues is to of course gain promotion to higher leagues, win your respective league cup and generally have a good time playing the game and getting to know different members.

How will it work?

People who are interested sign up as their online ID from the forum to compete in the competition (I will come onto this later). I have designed the league to take 11 weeks to complete, meaning a relatively fast turnaround of relegation and promotion, as well as a 4 week cup campaign in each league.

Each league will contain 12 members meaning therefore that you must be available to play 22 games in 11 weeks (2 league games online a week) plus an extra game a week in the cup in the last 4 weeks (if you reach the final). Therefore at a maximum you will be playing 3 competitive games a week in the TRF Leagues.

Each member that joins will be emailed a roster sheet at the start of each 11 week season (as well as being published on here) showing the members they will be playing against each week of that season. It is then up to the members to co-ordinate with each other when they can play those games in that week. Once the games have been played one, or both, of the players can communicate the score on the forum or to a designated person to write up the weeks results.

Then at the end of each week the League tables and Cup tree (when applicable) will be posted with the respective results from them. Members can then discuss their fixtures and results, and even make match reports if they wish. They can then also use to forums to ask for friendly matches against other teams etc.

Why do I sign up as my TRF ID and not as a team?

Due to the fact that there will probably be only a select amount of top class teams in each game I think it makes sense that any person can pick to play as any team on the game when they sign up. However, you must stick with that team for the entire season. I just think this would be best to avoid confusion when reading the league table instead of having a league made up of several of the same team.

Therefore, to summarise, you are playing against the person, not the team. Everyone is free to pick whatever team they want at the start of the season but must stick with them. Therefore, in theory, everyone could pick to play as New Zealand, but I hope both of the games will be broad enough to have a range of equally good teams.

This free choice will then hopefully mean the leagues are separated by player ability and not the rating of the team, as everyone will be on a near-enough equal standing.

(THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS I AM UNSURE ABOUT - ANY IDEAS ARE VERY WELCOME FOR THIS)

How will the higher and lower leagues be decided?

Obviously everyone is of varying skill levels so there will be the need for different league levels. In the inaugural season I would suggest that members are just randomly assigned into leagues of 12 members, with no bias towards skill level E.g. If 36 people sign up then there will be 3 leagues of 12 to begin with (Leagues A, B and C). These teams will then play the season and the top 4 finishing teams in all 3 leagues at the season conclusion will be assigned to the highest league, the middle 4 finishing teams in the 3 leagues will be assigned to the second highest league and the bottom 4 finishing teams to the lowest league. Then in the second season when all members are assigned to this league structure will the relegation and promotion begin.

How will the Cup work?

I envisage the cup campaign will work by randomly drawing teams out against each other from the same league in a straightforward knockout competition. As there are 12 teams in a league the first round would be simply a knockout round, the second the quarter-finals, the third the semi-finals and the fourth week the cup final. I don't see the need to play home and away legs (unless demand for it) so it would be straightforward winner advances.

Also depending on the popularity of this online league idea (if any) we could introduce an FA Cup-style competition whereby the cup will start at the lowest league and gradually higher league teams will be introduced. This would add the opportunity for some giant killing!

Relegation/Promotion

In the current 11 week structure I have simply catered for the top 2 teams in each division to be promoted, and the bottom 2 team to be relegated. In the highest division the top team wins the league and there is no promotion.

What are peoples views on this? Should there also be a play-off structure? I.e. bottom 2 relegated, top team promoted and 2nd - 5th go into play-offs (2nd plays 5th, 3rd plays forth. Winners go into play-off final) to determine 2nd promotion place?

What are the rules?

  • 4 points for a win
  • 1 point for a draw
  • 0 points for a loss
Bonus points:
  • 1 point losing by less that 7 points
  • 1 point for scoring 4 or more tries

Punishments/Not fulfilling fixtures:

I understand that everyone at some point in 11 weeks will not be able to fulfil a fixture for one reason or another. I think there should be a two strike system for this. Failure to fulfil a games for the 1st time will result in a loss and 0 points. The opposition team will be registered with a victory and 4 points. You can do this a maximum of two times.

From the 3rd failure to fulfil a fixture in the correct time onwards, the opposition team will still be awarded a win and 4 points, but the team failing to play will be deducted points (Yet to decide what is appropriate - Any Ideas?) - my real real aim here is to give people incentives to play and not just join up and stop playing after a week or two when they get bored, whilst also giving a margin of appreciation to the people who genuinely cannot fulfil a fixture.

Also Quitters ... ???

What is good about this League idea?

Flexibility - You only have to play 2 or 3 games a week. I appreciate a large proportion of people on here can't play as often as others, whether it be work in the week, travelling, going on holiday etc, so I think the idea of having only 2/3 games a week will be very manageable for everyone. Also the 11 week season means that anyone who joins and does find it difficult to keep up with the fixtures can stop playing after a season without being dragged in for a long haul competition.

Problems and Unresolved Issues

  • Will there be need for different Xbox and PS3 leagues?
  • Will there be need for different Leagues in NH and SH? Could then have a Champions Leagues style competition too.
  • Is the punishments structure viable?
  • Quitters?
  • Promotion/Relegation structure - play-offs?
  • Change your team after a season?

---------------------------------------------​

Now I want your views:
  • What do you think of this idea? Good? Bad?
  • Are you interested?
  • Please add your comments on how you think the idea could be improved or any awful ideas that I have had!

Discuss!
 
Last edited:

TRF_Olyy

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Big fan of this!
Though, as you said, would have to be a 360 and a PS3 tournament

NH vs SH could be a problem due to time difference as well
 

Duckdee

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You could vary things up with different team selection rules, like drafts, custom players only (with a rating limit), etc. Obviously, that depends on what each game allows.
 

best_fullback

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You could vary things up with different team selection rules, like drafts, custom players only (with a rating limit), etc. Obviously, that depends on what each game allows.

Yeah ideally I would love to do something like this and the possibility of a live draft online etc. Used to do this with my mates on Fifa and was great fun. However, like you said I don't know if it will work or whether custom teams will be available to use online, and even if they were; whether members wouldn't abuse this by altering all the stats to max etc. With the default teams that would be avoided.
 

CCCakumbra

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Fantastic idea and very well thought through. The things we do while revising eh? ;)
 

IRFU

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Great Idea, you though this through really well!
I think all or at least most of your ideas would be the best well to do the league, the 2 games a week would be fine for me (but I can't talk on behalf of others).
I think quitters should be deducted 2 points with the other team gaining the four points for the win, as well as being awarded the bonus point? Just an idea.
One other thing time differences could be a problem?
Well done for planning that out by the way!
 

best_fullback

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Great Idea, you though this through really well!
I think all or at least most of your ideas would be the best well to do the league, the 2 games a week would be fine for me (but I can't talk on behalf of others).
I think quitters should be deducted 2 points with the other team gaining the four points for the win, as well as being awarded the bonus point? Just an idea.
One other thing time differences could be a problem?
Well done for planning that out by the way!

Hey, thanks for the feedback!

With quitters I have been thinking about it a lot, and thought that maybe there should there be a second chance policy? E.g. You literally have one chance in the whole season when if you quit/disconnect you will not be penalised, as your connection may drop out of no fault of your own. In this legitimate scenario there is an obligation on both players to replay the fixture.

Also, I think even if your second chance has been used both players should speak, and if they mutually agree to replay the fixture again then no penalty should come of it. If there is refusal to replay or the quitter avoids a rematch then I just think a loss should be given, and a win to the opponent.

Obviously there are problems with this such as recording everyone's 'second chances'. Maybe in light of this strict liability should prevail, so any player who disconnects for whatever reason is recorded a loss and their opponent a win. Then there would at least be certainty. I only think in the case of clear excessive quitting on a frequent basis (E.g. after the 3rd time you have been recorded a loss for doing it) should points start being deducted.

With regards to NH and SH leagues I think it is much more practical after a few people have bought it up. Will need enough interest from both hemispheres first though!
 

Feicarsinn

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Odds are you'll end up with a NH + SA division and a Antipodean division just due to logistics. I'd certainly be up for it anyway. An FA cup format would be Ace, gives a nice trans league element to it, non?
 

best_fullback

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Odds are you'll end up with a NH + SA division and a Antipodean division just due to logistics. I'd certainly be up for it anyway. An FA cup format would be Ace, gives a nice trans league element to it, non?

Yeah it would be so good! I'm working at the moment on an Excel League automatic scoring system, and an auto Cup draw and assignment system as well. I hope in the run up to the release of both games more people can chip in and say what they think, and if there is genuine interest (at least one or two leagues I would say) the rules and structure can be agreed. I think it would be a really good laugh!
 

IRFU

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Hey, thanks for the feedback!

With quitters I have been thinking about it a lot, and thought that maybe there should there be a second chance policy? E.g. You literally have one chance in the whole season when if you quit/disconnect you will not be penalised, as your connection may drop out of no fault of your own. In this legitimate scenario there is an obligation on both players to replay the fixture.

Also, I think even if your second chance has been used both players should speak, and if they mutually agree to replay the fixture again then no penalty should come of it. If there is refusal to replay or the quitter avoids a rematch then I just think a loss should be given, and a win to the opponent.

Obviously there are problems with this such as recording everyone's 'second chances'. Maybe in light of this strict liability should prevail, so any player who disconnects for whatever reason is recorded a loss and their opponent a win. Then there would at least be certainty. I only think in the case of clear excessive quitting on a frequent basis (E.g. after the 3rd time you have been recorded a loss for doing it) should points start being deducted.

With regards to NH and SH leagues I think it is much more practical after a few people have bought it up. Will need enough interest from both hemispheres first though!

Thanks for replying. Your way sounds great to me :D
 

zeno

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I'd be interested, althoulgh I'd no doubt get my ass handed to me :D
 

TRF_Ezequiel

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Big fan of this!
Though, as you said, would have to be a 360 and a PS3 tournament

NH vs SH could be a problem due to time difference as well

You do realise that the hemispheres itself don't have a difference in timezones right? ;)

This idea would be amazing and if you do it on weekends, you don't have to worry about timezones and all. If we play 10 AM GMT, it's 10 PM in New Zealand if I am correct
 

Amobokoboko

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Sounds good; but what about people pre-ordering not pre ordering their game. Is there already a specific start date you had in mind.
Also keep in mind that during summer you may have some people ( including me) who might miss more then to games.

Great idea, just need to work on the little details.
 

maverick2323

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awesome idea, Im in, 'Kiwi In Germany Wins First Online Rugby Comp', can see the headlines now....
 

TVH11

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i'm up for this, gonna get my arse handed on a plate by everyone :( :( :( Would be nice to get some "friendly s" going in the first few weeks of its release - so that people can get used to playing it?? I dont mind, either way i'm not gonna be a pussy and accept defeat (too scared to get a whooping on RLL)
 

best_fullback

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This idea would be amazing and if you do it on weekends, you don't have to worry about timezones and all. If we play 10 AM GMT, it's 10 PM in New Zealand if I am correct

Sure yeah, the idea of this thread is to throw around the best ideas people think about this idea realistically working. If that means for a combined SH and NH league to play on the weekends then that is practical!

Sounds good; but what about people pre-ordering not pre ordering their game. Is there already a specific start date you had in mind.
Also keep in mind that during summer you may have some people ( including me) who might miss more then to games.

Great idea, just need to work on the little details.

No nothing specific has been planned so there is no start date. We obviously know nothing about the teams on the game(s) yet so it would definitely be worth letting everyone have a week or two to get used to the game before we start + get a good feel for which teams are the best or most suitable to their style of play etc.

i'm up for this, gonna get my arse handed on a plate by everyone :( :( :( Would be nice to get some "friendly s" going in the first few weeks of its release - so that people can get used to playing it?? I dont mind, either way i'm not gonna be a pussy and accept defeat (too scared to get a whooping on RLL)

Haha! Don't worry I'm no gaming guru either. I am, in no way, one of these COD fanboys who spends every spare minute playing games online, and as a consequence I generally get my ass handed to me a fair bit too. I'm quite a casual gamer but its only really on sports games where I am very competitive against friends, and this idea came from the lounge modes my friends and I created on FIFA 11. I used to get my ass handed to me a lot by my friends who constantly played the game, but now I (like to) think I am on an even level with them and can compete for the ***le.

I look forward to joining you in League Z!
 

ranger

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You do realise that the hemispheres itself don't have a difference in timezones right? ;)

This idea would be amazing and if you do it on weekends, you don't have to worry about timezones and all. If we play 10 AM GMT, it's 10 PM in New Zealand if I am correct

Unless you happen to have a real rugby game to play on the saturday morning/afternoon. Or want to go get drunk on the saturday night. Im keen to get amongst this but it would really need be a midweek between lectures deal for me.
 

best_fullback

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Unless you happen to have a real rugby game to play on the saturday morning/afternoon. Or want to go get drunk on the saturday night. Im keen to get amongst this but it would really need be a midweek between lectures deal for me.

Well my original idea was to be as flexible as possible for everyone. I envisage posting up the fixtures for everyone at the beginning of the week, and then you have 7 days to complete those two fixtures. Then if people want to play on the weekend they can, and if they want to play in week they can, just as long as they are completed in those 7 days. Its up to the players who are drawn together to sort out the logistics.

But obviously that was just my idea, and it may not work for everyone. Would that work for you, or would you propose a longer period, or less games etc?
 

TRF_Cymro

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Smaller leagues could be a better bet, and organize them into a flexibility groups.

E.g. what Ranger says ... maybe a group for people who can arrange to play a game at a different time during the week or so?
 

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