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dirty harry said:
You know, the more you comment the more telling the confusion and bigotry.

Of course Republicans made gains mid term during obama, he was a wrecking ball that murdered them, there is no way to go from bottom than up. Its similar to Labour winning the election they lost votes from Corbyn era, but couldn't not win lol.

You keep conflating Teump with Republicans, I think thats where your confusion stems, I get it your all baffled by how he won, and wins, but you have to stop trying to win the argument and demonise him, thats all anyone has done since day 1, and exactly my point.


If I walked into a classroom and acknowledged I didnt know calculus, but argues against someone trying to explain it to me to the death, id be a bad learner wouldnt I?

Regarding the Tea party, it was 6 Senate seats not 5. Go and check. They didnt come in and sweep, they were a desperation action off the back of 2009s domination, any action taken in the middle terms would have yielded results, I think you know the mid term trends, but refuse to acknowledge it. The Tea party served a purpose and died out, the last remnants eradicated by Trump. Or do you see the Tea party at work today? Are the Tea party in the room with you?

You act like losing seats and winning an election is a bad thing, Obama was incredibly popular on his leaving, and Democrats were nigh on favourites regardless of candidate 2016, infact media were talking about the end of the Republicans lol. Thays why Dems felt arrogant enough to usurp their candidate to an establishment cronie last minute. They acted throughout the entirety of that election as if they won, with the entirety of the media all in line and step with the Democrat cause. I dont think ive ever seen such alignment previously, even 2009 Obama had more detractors than Clinton did.

You keep comparing Trump as an individual, to the Democrats, and establishment, hes popular because hes real, flawed ****** up, loud, ignorant, wildly patriotic... if ive said it once I'll say it a thousand times, when you travel the US, you cross 100 Trumps before 1 Obama.

I keep hearing the same confused rhetoric from anti right wingers, and its the lefts problem in general. Just because your left (and I dont think many are on this thread) doesnt mean you have to be anti right (god damn I hate those terms).

To make the claim that MAGA voters want to harm others inherently, and that they are nasty and deep down wanted to say bad things Trump says, might be the most virtiolic and scariest thing I've read on this website, you've been convinced to dehumanise your opposition so much you believe the vitriolic claims made against them, by people who dont believe it, who just say it to divide and win votes.

You sir are what people call an ideologue, the perfect outcome ofwhat both sides of the isle want.

Have you ever asked yourself, why some posters drip feeds anti Right / Trump articles from the same biased sources to this website daily, throughout the day, night, and mid discussion a lot of the time? Is he purposefully feeding these threads echo chamber nutrition, do you believe being drip fed Huffpost, daily beast and anti MAGA has shaped your view, or is it the real world experience of conversing and living among them?
Click to expand...
Ah the Jordan Peterson of TRF returns with his usual smug self satisfaction and both sides-ism what offering nothing of worth except to be a contrarian.

So you've gone from saying Republicans were being wiped out and looked like they wouldn't return to power for ages to "of course they made gains under Obama by literally his 2nd year". You really are a piece of work. I'm not the one conflating Trump with Republicans, you did, multiple times, at least when you thought it supported your narrative that he dragged the party out from the rough. As soon as it's put in clear terms that the party as a while was actually doing well, then you drop that and pretend you knew all along that of course the Republican party was going to get record seats. You are so childish, rather than accept you got it wrong, you pretend you were claiming the exact opposite of what you were all along.

You'd walk into a classroom and argue 2+2=\=4 just to be contrarian and then claim anyone saying otherwise was an ideologue not considering the nuance of your fabricated realities.

I did go back and check, which is clearly what you didn't do, so get off your high horse. You weren't even aware the Republicans made record gains into I told you. Also why are you focusing only on the senate? They made massive gains in the house of representatives. Also you want like a 6 seat gain in the senate is nothing, that's just under 20% of the seats up for grabs switching in one election. You hold the hilarious view of trying to claim all of that is insignificant whilst simultaneously acknowledging at least they were big gains, but that it was inevitable. Make up your mind.

Yes you do meet 100 trumps before 1 Obama, that's not a good thing. You will also meet 100 of the banjo players from deliverance for every Einstein.

listen to their own rhetoric and what they themselves say they want. You rarely hear anything about acts to raise the common good or assist others. In fact find be any MAGA supporters whose position advocates helping others.

What do you think you get from simplifying everything down to everyone is the same, Trump is no different to anything else and ask criticism can be thrown away? for someone who claims to live nuance, your position is deny everything, that's it. The stolen documents case is a perfect example where, even when down a clear cut case of criminal behaviour and a clear cut case of judicial corruption and suddenly all you care about is the final outcome, the nuance over whether it is right is dropped.
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Ah the Jordan Peterson of TRF returns with his usual smug self satisfaction and both sides-ism what offering nothing of worth except to be a contrarian.

So you've gone from saying Republicans were being wiped out and looked like they wouldn't return to power for ages to "of course they made gains under Obama by literally his 2nd year". You really are a piece of work. I'm not the one conflating Trump with Republicans, you did, multiple times, at least when you thought it supported your narrative that he dragged the party out from the rough. As soon as it's put in clear terms that the party as a while was actually doing well, then you drop that and pretend you knew all along that of course the Republican party was going to get record seats. You are so childish, rather than accept you got it wrong, you pretend you were claiming the exact opposite of what you were all along.

You'd walk into a classroom and argue 2+2=\=4 just to be contrarian and then claim anyone saying otherwise was an ideologue not considering the nuance of your fabricated realities.

I did go back and check, which is clearly what you didn't do, so get off your high horse. You weren't even aware the Republicans made record gains into I told you. Also why are you focusing only on the senate? They made massive gains in the house of representatives. Also you want like a 6 seat gain in the senate is nothing, that's just under 20% of the seats up for grabs switching in one election. You hold the hilarious view of trying to claim all of that is insignificant whilst simultaneously acknowledging at least they were big gains, but that it was inevitable. Make up your mind.

Yes you do meet 100 trumps before 1 Obama, that's not a good thing. You will also meet 100 of the banjo players from deliverance for every Einstein.

listen to their own rhetoric and what they themselves say they want. You rarely hear anything about acts to raise the common good or assist others. In fact find be any MAGA supporters whose position advocates helping others.

What do you think you get from simplifying everything down to everyone is the same, Trump is no different to anything else and ask criticism can be thrown away? for someone who claims to live nuance, your position is deny everything, that's it. The stolen documents case is a perfect example where, even when down a clear cut case of criminal behaviour and a clear cut case of judicial corruption and suddenly all you care about is the final outcome, the nuance over whether it is right is dropped.
Click to expand...

Before I read any of that, I dont understand why you insist on calling me both sides like its an insult, its called empathy.

But ive explained to you a number of times, and in fact I argue left wing principles constantly, just because I dont deem people within my society or even the rest of the world I disagree with on certain issues an enemy like you seem to, doesnt mean my opinions are less important because ive become an 'other' in your view.

I'll keep telling you, your arguments absolutely mimic MAGAs, you act exactly the same as them, you misquote, mock and absolutely attribute malice, ignorance, and alternative meanings and fact in a way that suits your opinions, I would encourage you to be better than them, if your capable.

But let's take the twitter post above as an example, do you believe Trump was making a joke about war and elections, or is he setting a platform for a 3rd term, an authoritarian state and to eradicate anyone non white with this comment?

I'll get to the rest in due course, im just running into a meeting
 
Ddanno said:
Nothing sinister here

View attachment 24382
Click to expand...

What did British GQ call him? 'Troller in cheif'?

These have been on sale for months havnt they? Although after I was at Trump Tower, I was there March i think and I didnt see any.

let's see what actions he takes, hes already denounced the idea, maybe this is a troll, maybe its laying the foundations to test the waters, either way he has both outs, and based on the media hysteria hell get away with it easily, although as mentioned above I think British GQ dealt with it well if I remember, I'll try to find a link.
 
Ddanno said:
Nothing sinister here
Click to expand...
No matter how the Republican's do it they need 2/3 of state legislators to ratify a constitution change (regardless of how its proposed) that's pretty explicit in the 22nd amendment.

Typically they take 1-2 years to get through as well.

Lofty goals sure but I can't see them doing it in the schedule required.
 
dirty harry said:
I mean, let's not pretend we arent all crass and incredibly rude and stupid, I won't name names but there is at least a few here id put on Trumps level.
Click to expand...
Come on, not even close. And even then, none of the people on here are president of the United ******* states.

I like to think if any were in that position they may adjust some of their language/behaviour to be in keeping with the office.
 
ncurd said:
No matter how the Republican's do it they need 2/3 of state legislators to ratify a constitution change (regardless of how its proposed) that's pretty explicit in the 22nd amendment.

Typically they take 1-2 years to get through as well.

Lofty goals sure but I can't see them doing it in the schedule required.
Click to expand...
Legally I agree but it just looks like ammunition for attempted coup number two
 
Welsh Exile said:
Come on, not even close. And even then, none of the people on here are president of the United ******* states.

I like to think if any were in that position they may adjust some of their language/behaviour to be in keeping with the office.
Click to expand...
Plus its the internet with some level anonymity assuming I'm included on his list if you think I'd behave in the way Trump does in public....
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Ah the Jordan Peterson of TRF returns with his usual smug self satisfaction and both sides-ism what offering nothing of worth except to be a contrarian.

So you've gone from saying Republicans were being wiped out and looked like they wouldn't return to power for ages to "of course they made gains under Obama by literally his 2nd year". You really are a piece of work. I'm not the one conflating Trump with Republicans, you did, multiple times, at least when you thought it supported your narrative that he dragged the party out from the rough. As soon as it's put in clear terms that the party as a while was actually doing well, then you drop that and pretend you knew all along that of course the Republican party was going to get record seats. You are so childish, rather than accept you got it wrong, you pretend you were claiming the exact opposite of what you were all along.

You'd walk into a classroom and argue 2+2=\=4 just to be contrarian and then claim anyone saying otherwise was an ideologue not considering the nuance of your fabricated realities.

I did go back and check, which is clearly what you didn't do, so get off your high horse. You weren't even aware the Republicans made record gains into I told you. Also why are you focusing only on the senate? They made massive gains in the house of representatives. Also you want like a 6 seat gain in the senate is nothing, that's just under 20% of the seats up for grabs switching in one election. You hold the hilarious view of trying to claim all of that is insignificant whilst simultaneously acknowledging at least they were big gains, but that it was inevitable. Make up your mind.

Yes you do meet 100 trumps before 1 Obama, that's not a good thing. You will also meet 100 of the banjo players from deliverance for every Einstein.

listen to their own rhetoric and what they themselves say they want. You rarely hear anything about acts to raise the common good or assist others. In fact find be any MAGA supporters whose position advocates helping others.

What do you think you get from simplifying everything down to everyone is the same, Trump is no different to anything else and ask criticism can be thrown away? for someone who claims to live nuance, your position is deny everything, that's it. The stolen documents case is a perfect example where, even when down a clear cut case of criminal behaviour and a clear cut case of judicial corruption and suddenly all you care about is the final outcome, the nuance over whether it is right is dropped.
Click to expand...

Right, time to get into the weeds...

Are you claiming, midterms arent pretty much guaranteed a gain for the losing party? You cant see a party decimated, that made gainst in the middle terms because only their base is motivated to vote, to then see them decimated at the next election as progress or success?

Republicans were being question after the elections, a sentiment that given the demolition Obama inflicted, and the prevailing trends of common sense, I shared with the media, that was then reflected in 2012. a midterm doesnt move the needle of power really in most cases, as I think you know. Republicans were lucky that in 2010 they managed to gain a semblance of negotiation power, which is why I claimed the Tea party were partially (i cant remember the word i used) successful, but ultimately an abject failure, as we can evidence that it faded out within the next election cycle, after high profile losses at the big show. Even the semi success at mid terms can be attributed to trends of midterms.

Ive never conflated Trump with Republicans, Republicans are a failure, Trump steam rolled them in 2015, did you see any of the primary debates lol, they were not on board until he became unbeatable, and even then key figures waited until after the elections. Bush, Cruz, Dubious, Romney and others actively criticised him, even after he became nominee a lot of prominent Republicans refused to vote for him, Kasich, Bushes, Romney etc... this wasnt Kamala calling Biden racist, then immediately back tracking and saying she didnt mean it, this was major Republican players casting doubt on their nominee, even sitting senators, i dont remember the number but probably a dozen plus, refused to vote for him. I dont remember any Dems refusing to vote for Clinton.

I'll be honest, I only managed to reach end of the contrarian paragraph and counted what 6 ad hominims, its pretty hard to discuss politely when you start a comment with 3 insults in 3 lines, id say your better than this, but I cant keep saying it as a trend has been established.

You've had it explained to you very clearly, and over and over, that insulting people, name calling and misquoting / bending what is being said isnt doing what you think it is, infact its the core of the problem, yet when arguing against it you repeatedly do it over and over.

Ilbut let's get down to a specific example, you and MAGA are making the exact same arguments in the exact same way...

Which boards are you on that hold positive or even neutral views of MAGA? What media content do you ingestion that holds positive or neitral views of MAGA?
Most importantly, and worryingly is the line 'In fact find be any MAGA supporters whose position advocates helping others.'

You have to understand how crazy that statement is? Your claiming of 80 million voters, not one of them has advocated for helping others?!?!

I cannot believe that your stance is truly that every Trump voter or supporter wants harm to others, and none have advocated to help others! That is worrying, and as ive said previously, you sound like you have been radicalised, because if you truly hold that view, you may well be considering acting to rectify that. I know, if i believed a group of people were actively wanting to harm others, and none had advocated any help, id have the moral responsibility to act!!

And I don't mean these as insults, but I see radicalisation and work with PREVENT semi regularly, having 0 empathy for the 'others' is a red flag. Would you say you hated, or wanted to cause harm to MAGA supporters?
 
dirty harry said:
Before I read any of that, I dont understand why you insist on calling me both sides like its an insult, its called empathy.
Click to expand...
Not really. Anyway, speaking for myself, and pretty much everyone else, we have our own views as to why Trump did well which according to your definition is empathy, we just disagree with your reasons.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Not really. Anyway, speaking for myself, and pretty much everyone else, we have our own views as to why Trump did well which according to your definition is empathy, we just disagree with your reasons.
Click to expand...

And your welcome to that, the difference is i havnt heard you make absolute claims about MAGA supporters, as in they are all bad, want to harm others, and none have advocated anything to help.

Those are incredibly non empathetic comments, id hope, most people here havnt been radicalised enough to share.

Knowing plenty of MAGA supporters, some who run charity's, some foster, some are some of the loveliest people ive ever met, all would absolutely state they do a lot for their communities and beyond, and id absolutely go to bat for them in their work!

Infact their intentions for voting or supporting Trump come from a place of wanting to help the country, which includes every citizen and in some cases non citizens too. Their intent though comes from a mixture of fear, and anger at the establishment to only self serve and not serve the people, and I get some of the reasons. We debate all the time that they are consuming one sided media, and their fear isnt fully rational, infact a few months ago I was up till 4am banging my head against a brick wall lol whiskey, log fire and a skyline of Manhatten in the distance was a surreal time hahaha.

I personally wouldnt vote the same way, but I 100% cannot agree with absolute statements of them being bad people, willing to harm, or doing nothing to help, and I dont think anyone who has spent more than 5 mins with some of them would accept those comments.
 
dirty harry said:
And your welcome to that, the difference is i havnt heard you make absolute claims about MAGA supporters, as in they are all bad, want to harm others, and none have advocated anything to help.

Those are incredibly non empathetic comments, id hope, most people here havnt been radicalised enough to share.

Knowing plenty of MAGA supporters, some who run charity's, some foster, some are some of the loveliest people ive ever met, all would absolutely state they do a lot for their communities and beyond, and id absolutely go to bat for them in their work!

Infact their intentions for voting or supporting Trump come from a place of wanting to help the country, which includes every citizen and in some cases non citizens too. Their intent though comes from a mixture of fear, and anger at the establishment to only self serve and not serve the people, and I get some of the reasons. We debate all the time that they are consuming one sided media, and their fear isnt fully rational, infact a few months ago I was up till 4am banging my head against a brick wall lol whiskey, log fire and a skyline of Manhatten in the distance was a surreal time hahaha.

I personally wouldnt vote the same way, but I 100% cannot agree with absolute statements of them being bad people, willing to harm, or doing nothing to help, and I dont think anyone who has spent more than 5 mins with some of them would accept those comments.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute, are you saying they didn’t vote for Trump because people called them/Trump mean words? I’m gobsmacked.
 

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