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[dirty harry]

So you dislike all politicans but not all police even though the police act in a similar way, or you don't trust them the same way you don't trust politicians? Why do you like them and not politicians then? I'm confused, but I've probably misunderstood you.

Officers are different people, the vast majority go in with good intentions. They are grounded, until they are essentially corrupted by a force who dictates what they must do. Its almost like conditioning.

If you spent your days, being lied to, and deceived, attacked and berated, you would change too, you would start to see everyone as a perpetrator.

I can feel empathy for them, look at the alcohol, drugs and domestic violence rates.

But that doesnt mean I trust them, like I said, if you didnt call them, then your a suspect. Its great advice.

I'd liken it to great advice I was given donkeys years ago about riding my motorbike, ride like every car is trying to run you down.

The difference between police and politicians, is that police arent getting stinking rich from betraying the public, aren't desiring notoriety, or clambering after more power.

Ive met most of my local politicians, and the best of the lot is a Tory, which feels icky.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Officers are different people, the vast majority go in with good intentions. They are grounded, until they are essentially corrupted by a force who dictates what they must do. Its almost like conditioning.

If you spent your days, being lied to, and deceived, attacked and berated, you would change too, you would start to see everyone as a perpetrator.

I can feel empathy for them, look at the alcohol, drugs and domestic violence rates.

But that doesnt mean I trust them, like I said, if you didnt call them, then your a suspect. Its great advice.

I'd liken it to great advice I was given donkeys years ago about riding my motorbike, ride like every car is trying to run you down.

The difference between police and politicians, is that police arent getting stinking rich from betraying the public, aren't desiring notoriety, or clambering after more power.

Ive met most of my local politicians, and the best of the lot is a Tory, which feels icky.

Sounds kinda similar to politics. A lot go in with good intentions, a lot lose their way, some good some bad etc etc. some worthy of your dislike, others less so. I think it’s always good to be sceptical but I feel you verge too far away from that and into cynicism.

 

[dirty harry]

Sounds kinda similar to politics. A lot go in with good intentions, a lot lose their way, some good some bad etc etc. some worthy of your dislike, others less so. I think it's always good to be sceptical but I feel you verge too far away from that and into cynicism.

Again, this is absolutely my stance, a dislike them all, some less so some more so.

Disliking those who search power and wealth, and sensibly safeguarding yourself from prosecution are very different

 

[Welsh Exile]

Again, this is absolutely my stance, a dislike them all, some less so some more so.

Disliking those who search power and wealth, and sensibly safeguarding yourself from prosecution are very different

Yes, but it's the disliking them all bit is what I'm challenging you on.

It's just cynical. Anyone who is in any position of power or authority is automatically disliked and then it's just a matter of how much you dislike them.

 

[dirty harry]

Yes, but it's the disliking them all bit is what I'm challenging you on.

It's just cynical. Anyone who is in any position of power or authority is automatically disliked and then it's just a matter of how much you dislike them.

OK so name those who you like, let's go through their merits and work out if they are deserving of your praise?

 

[Welsh Exile]

OK so name those who you like, let's go through their merits and work out if they are deserving of your praise?

Considering there are 650 MPs in Britain and I literally know none of them personally then that would be quite hard to answer it's also kind of pointless seeing as you're speaking in some kind of objective way, and it's why you want to use the NOLAN principles as all you have to do is show an instance of them lying or not being objective and you can say "see look, they're bad people"

My whole point is that you're looking at this like a child would, extremely simplistically with a complete lack of nuance or any appreciation for the complexity of human nature.

But look, it's cool. If you want to dislike every MP, every policeman, every CEO, any person in the military, any doctor etc etc that's ok. As I say, it's not sceptical, it's just cynical.

 

[dirty harry]

Considering there are 650 MPs in Britain and I literally know none of them personally then that would be quite hard to answer it's also kind of pointless seeing as you're speaking in some kind of objective way, and it's why you want to use the NOLAN principles as all you have to do is show an instance of them lying or not being objective and you can say "see look, they're bad people"

My whole point is that you're looking at this like a child would, extremely simplistically with a complete lack of nuance or any appreciation for the complexity of human nature.

But look, it's cool. If you want to dislike every MP, every policeman, every CEO, any person in the military, any doctor etc etc that's ok. As I say, it's not sceptical, it's just cynical.

See now you keep calling my view childlike, but despite my constant reiterating you reduce my stance to hatred of everybody...

How many times do I have to keep correcting you? I never said I dislike police, there was no mention of CEOs, Doctors, Military yet you keep making the assertions.

And my point is not to pick a single incident of them failing to uphold the NOLAN principles, that wouldnt be fair, but I think youd be surprised by any politician you liked that would willingly flout them, or repeatedly disregard them for personal / professional gain.

Ill give you an example, as I keep saying im drawn to the niaivity and integrity of someone like Corbyn, hes an idealist, and he has consistently held his view despite barrage of criticism, backstabbing and being undermined by lesser people. He probably would score decently well when held against a standard, especially in comparison to his peers.

So, if my stance is so childlike, let's explore specifics, and you can show how immature my view is?

 

[Welsh Exile]

See now you keep calling my view childlike, but despite my constant reiterating you reduce my stance to hatred of everybody...

How many times do I have to keep correcting you? I never said I dislike police, there was no mention of CEOs, Doctors, Military yet you keep making the assertions.

And my point is not to pick a single incident of them failing to uphold the NOLAN principles, that wouldnt be fair, but I think youd be surprised by any politician you liked that would willingly flout them, or repeatedly disregard them for personal / professional gain.

Ill give you an example, as I keep saying im drawn to the niaivity and integrity of someone like Corbyn, hes an idealist, and he has consistently held his view despite barrage of criticism, backstabbing and being undermined by lesser people. He probably would score decently well when held against a standard, especially in comparison to his peers.

So, if my stance is so childlike, let's explore specifics, and you can show how immature my view is?

I’m pointing out the inconsistency in your world view. You already admitted your default position is to distrust all police because they are police. Exactly like politicians. So I can only assume this goes for any other person who has sought wealth and power like CEO’s and such. Are you now saying you don’t dislike all police?

 

[dirty harry]

I'm pointing out the inconsistency in your world view. You already admitted your default position is to distrust all police because they are police. Exactly like politicians. So I can only assume this goes for any other person who has sought wealth and power like CEO's and such. Are you now saying you don't dislike all police?

You assume wrong, the same way you keep reducing my stance to what its not, police are not the same as politicians, I have never said they were, or said I disliked them, infact I said I know a fair amount of them, and work with some of them semi regularly.

Distrust and safeguarding yourself is not the same as dislike, why you keep trying to assert it is I dont know.

There is no inconsistency, only inconsistency in the argument you keep asserting, for some reason.

You say my dislike of politicians is childlike, but refuse to give some names of who you like, so I can only assume you share my dislike of them, and vote for the best of a bad bunch in specific contexts when given the chance, which would align you to my stance.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You assume wrong, the same way you keep reducing my stance to what its not, police are not the same as politicians, I have never said they were, or said I disliked them, infact I said I know a fair amount of them, and work with some of them semi regularly.

Distrust and safeguarding yourself is not the same as dislike, why you keep trying to assert it is I dont know.

There is no inconsistency, only inconsistency in the argument you keep asserting, for some reason.

You say my dislike of politicians is childlike, but refuse to give some names of who you like, so I can only assume you share my dislike of them, and vote for the best of a bad bunch in specific contexts when given the chance, which would align you to my stance.

It's because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you say:

“Not at all, I know a fair few around the city”
And then you say

“Ive witnessed too many of them behave absolutely inexcusably, to believe that their interests align with mine most of the time”

So which is it?

CEO’s seek wealth and power, why don’t you automatically dislike them?

 

[McTallshort]

Should rename this the arguing Welshmen thread

 

[Welsh Exile]

Should rename this the arguing Welshmen thread

A perfect microcosm to sum up the WRU and Welsh rugby as a whole.

 

[Saintjay]

Should rename this the arguing Welshmen thread

It's like a mini WRU general meeting

Jinx

 

[dirty harry]

It's because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you say:

"Not at all, I know a fair few around the city"
And then you say

"Ive witnessed too many of them behave absolutely inexcusably, to believe that their interests align with mine most of the time"

So which is it?

CEO's seek wealth and power, why don't you automatically dislike them?

Its clearly both. I work with them, and some are decent people, some are horrid. But it doesnt matter, because ive seen their behaviour in crucial circumstances I wouldnt trust any of them unless I called them for something specific.

Would you trust your wallet with guys you work with sporadically, locals in the pub, or on the bar after a rugby match? Do you lock your doors at night?

You can take responsibility for your own safety, while simultaneously not disliking police, your team mates, and your neighbours.

Distrust is a lack of confidence in something or someone, Dislike is having disdain for something or someone, having a suspicious emotion toward police isnt the same as having a negative emotional response to politicians.

I cant be any clearer tbh

 

[dirty harry]

A perfect microcosm to sum up the WRU and Welsh rugby as a whole.

No its not you Exile abandoning loser!!!!

"My village is coming for yours now, I knew i hated you for a reason"

Abi Tierney

 

[Welsh Exile]

Its clearly both. I work with them, and some are decent people, some are horrid. But it doesnt matter, because ive seen their behaviour in crucial circumstances I wouldnt trust any of them unless I called them for something specific.

Would you trust your wallet with guys you work with sporadically, locals in the pub, or on the bar after a rugby match? Do you lock your doors at night?

You can take responsibility for your own safety, while simultaneously not disliking police, your team mates, and your neighbours.

Distrust is a lack of confidence in something or someone, Dislike is having disdain for something or someone, having a suspicious emotion toward police isnt the same as having a negative emotional response to politicians.

I cant be any clearer tbh

As clear as mud. lol.

What about CEO’s I take it you treat them the same as politicians as they seek wealth and power.

 

[dirty harry]

As clear as mud. lol.

What about CEO's I take it you treat them the same as politicians as they seek wealth and power.

Not necessarily, they vary too much. There will be those who are abhorrent, but some are thrust into it.

Take my charities CEO, Cardiff rugby loving community caring local legend. Office always open, chats in the kitchen, couldn't do enough for anyone...

Not like the last, Drakefords puppet, left to go into the assembly.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Not necessarily, they vary too much. There will be those who are abhorrent, but some are thrust into it.

Take my charities CEO, Cardiff rugby loving community caring local legend. Office always open, chats in the kitchen, couldn't do enough for anyone...

Not like the last, Drakefords puppet, left to go into the assembly.

So explain to me how this doesn’t completely go against your world view? It’s not consistent. How are CEOs any different from politicians in the sense they both seek wealth and power but one group you automatically assume as bad, as a default position, but with CEO’s suddenly they’re ok and there’s nuance and context to consider. Very strange.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also, I would add, that if seeking wealth and power is the criteria then surely politicians should be excluded based on the fact that being a politician isn't particularly high paid.

CEO's would be the best example actually. Seek wealth, power and influence.

 

[AlRums]

Judge says Trump administration’s use of US military in Los Angeles violated federal law

https://us.cnn.com/2025/09/02/politics/national-guard-california-trump-posse-comitatus-act-breyer