Waikato vs. Canterbury

[HarryPeters]

This is shaping up to be huge! A lot of people I have talked to are writing off Waikato and a loss could even mean they miss out on a semi-final spot. I think Waikato have a great chance if the likes of Tokula can fire. Also it looks like Sivivatu is back for the next 2 games to get fit for the end of year tour.

Predictions?

 

[Shaggy]

Waikato will get second in this one ... Canterbury have a stable squad, where as Waikato will miss Donald ... Veainu to score a couple of tries

 

[BjR]

Naahh Waikato can win this... I think they should go with something like:

1. Toby Smith
2. Vern Kamo
3. Nathan White (Captain)
4. Romana Graham
5. Dominiko Waquanibourito
6. Jack Lam (Vice Captain)
7. Zach Hohneck
8. Alex Bradley
9. Malcom Barnes
10. Christian Lealifano (Goal Kicker)
11. Sitivini Sivivatu
12. Jackson Willison
13. Save Tokula
14. Henry Speight
15. Trent Renata (Backup Goal Kicker)

16. Hikiro Forbes
17. Ben May
18. Toby Lynn
19. Kent Fife
20. David Bason
21. Dwayne Sweeny
22. Tim Mikkleson

 

[Sam Owen]

Im gonna go with 24-17 to Canterbury.

 

[HarryPeters]

Not Renata at 10 and Sweeney at 15?

 

[BjR]

Not Renata at 10 and Sweeney at 15?

Well Renata does have his good days, but he's played at first five eighth alot this year, and I think Lealifano deserves a chance... plus is it me or can Renata only kick the hard goals, and miss the easy ones?

By the way, I would much prefer Sweeny at 15 than 11, so maybe

10. Lealifano
15. Sweeny
21. Renata

Or maybe:

10. Lealifano
12. Sweeny
15. Renata
21. Willison

What do you think?

 

[HarryPeters]

I'm not sold on Lealifano at 10 because I haven't seen him there, not even in Super Rugby so I'm no judge.

I'm just going by what I've seen for Waikato and he has been impressive for me at 12. I'm not sure mixing it up against a team vs. Canterbury (which is a must win match) is the right idea.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Altho I'm a big Waikato fan I think Canterbury will win it.
Waikato will miss it international players

 

[Larksea]

I hate to say it but Donald being on AB duty will likely decide this game, add to that Mills & Messam being on AB duty as well and Leonard, Aled & Barlow injured.

Means they have lost all but 1 of their ~5 All Blacks. And sivi will have his first game back in months.

I think they do have to try something special, like Lealifano or Sweeny at 10.

but the way the Waikato forward pack got beaten by the turbo's last week, they will have to improve a heck of a lot to compete with the Red & Black forwards. Lineout is goign to be really tested.

Lineouts and handling errors (mostly in the forwards) have been bad for waikato this season.

 

[Darwin]

The two teams have been: (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/4253242/Canterbury-Waikato-name-sides)
Canterbury: Sean Maitland, Tu Umaga-Marshall, Robbie Fruean, Ryan Crotty, Telusa Veainu, Colin Slade, Willi Heinz, Nasi Manu, Matt Todd, Ash Parker, Isaac Ross, Rob Verbakel, Peter Borlase, Steve Fualau, Wyatt Crockett (captain). Reserves: Paul Ngauamo, Andrew Olorenshaw, Tom Broughton, Brendon O'Connor, Takerei Norton, Stephen Brett, Sam Monaghan.
Waikato: Sosene Anesi, Henry Speight, Save Tokula, Jackson Willison, Dwayne Sweeney, Trent Renata, Malcolm Barnes, Alex Bradley, Jack Lam, Dominiko Waqaniburotu, Romana Graham, Toby Lynn, Nathan White (captain), Aled de Malmanche, Toby Smith. Reserves: Hikairo Forbes, Ben May, Matt Vant Leven, Zak Hohneck, Tawera Kerr-Barlow/David Bason, Christian Lealiifano, Sitiveni Sivivatu

Some good news for Waikato, with Waqaniburotu, Toby Smith, de Malmanche, and Sivivatu (on the bench) all fit for the game, though Leonard is not available.

I think it will be a close game. Waikato may even have a slight advantage up front, but Canterbury look to have the better backline. I'm picking Canterbury to win by 10, however wouldn't be surprised if Waikato can pull off the upset.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I hate to say it but Donald being on AB duty will likely decide this game, add to that Mills & Messam being on AB duty as well and Leonard, Aled & Barlow injured.

Means they have lost all but 1 of their ~5 All Blacks. And sivi will have his first game back in months.

I think they do have to try something special, like Lealifano or Sweeny at 10.

but the way the Waikato forward pack got beaten by the turbo's last week, they will have to improve a heck of a lot to compete with the Red & Black forwards. Lineout is goign to be really tested.

Lineouts and handling errors (mostly in the forwards) have been bad for waikato this season.

Haha Renata kicked 6/6 and waikato won.. reckon he's in line for a call up Larksea?! Struggled past Turbos with Donald then beat Canterbury without him.. what an irreplacable player he is.

 

[Sam Owen]

Damm I havent seen the game yet. Quite surprised that Waikato won, I know theyre a good side but Canterbury was on a winning run and I thought their momentum wouldve got them through Waikato but no, I thought wrong.

 

[Muzzy]

Haha Renata kicked 6/6 and waikato won.. reckon he's in line for a call up Larksea?! Struggled past Turbos with Donald then beat Canterbury without him.. what an irreplacable player he is.

lol even more surprising is Waikatos forwards actually owned the Canterbury forwards, they owned their asses at scrums and got i think two turnovers at scrum time, one was a tighthead. Seems Canterbury missed their all blacks more than Waikato did. Also canterbury apparently have the worst lineout in the competition this year

Waikato's halfback (Barnes i think) also had a great game and they didn't miss Leonard at all, they might have actually done better without him haha. Renata has been great the whole season too (except for round 1) so Waikato haven't exactly relied on Donald, Donalds only played a few games this season. but still i can't lie it was a surprise to see Waikato win like that. De Malmanche had his best game of the season too, best i've seen him in a long time i think he was the player of the match, Tokula, Speight and Willison were also good with their rush defense

 

[Amobokoboko]

Best news so far of the weekend.

 

[Darwin]

lol even more surprising is Waikatos forwards actually owned the Canterbury forwards, they owned their asses at scrums and got i think two turnovers at scrum time, one was a tighthead. Seems Canterbury missed their all blacks more than Waikato did. Also canterbury apparently have the worst lineout in the competition this year

Waikato's halfback (Barnes i think) also had a great game and they didn't miss Leonard at all, they might have actually done better without him haha. Renata has been great the whole season too (except for round 1) so Waikato haven't exactly relied on Donald, Donalds only played a few games this season. but still i can't lie it was a surprise to see Waikato win like that. De Malmanche had his best game of the season too, best i've seen him in a long time i think he was the player of the match, Tokula, Speight and Willison were also good with their rush defense

I don't think it was remotely surprising to see the Waikato forward pack dominate, as they have been doing it all year. Toby Smith has been the form loosehead prop all season, Aled de Malmanche would be an AB if he could throw the ball straight, while Nathan White is an experienced Super 14 player - that is a vastly superior front row compared to Crockett (a good Super 14 player), Fualau (a journeyman NPC player), and Borlase (a good NPC player, with limited Super Rugby experience). The Waikato locks (Lynn & Graham) are not great, but both have Super 14 experience, and are certainly a better combination than Verbakel (in his first start at this level) and Ross (who spends 90% of the game in the backline).

 

[Sam Owen]

Aled de Malmanche would be an AB if he could throw the ball straight

I think its those hulky shoulders of his. If there is such a word.

 

[Larksea]

Haha Renata kicked 6/6 and waikato won.. reckon he's in line for a call up Larksea?! Struggled past Turbos with Donald then beat Canterbury without him.. what an irreplacable player he is.

yeah the big difference being that the turbo's forwards beat the crap out of the waikato pack last weekend, but this weekend the waikato pack was on fire and they had the upperhand on the canterbury forwards.

The impact Aled had was superb, I was worried he wouldn't be 100% but that was wrong, I think he even played the whole 80min. He was like a one mana maul at times, hitting the ball up and he just kept on going with 2-3 defenders trying to hold him back.

Also helped by the fact Romana had a good game, he's been a bit up and down this year but when he has a good game he makes a real impact. Other times he seems to make a lot of mistakes and turn over posesion.

Also I've not been a big fan of Nathan White at times. For the chiefs last year he just looked like he wasn't up to super rugby, he was just walking from scrum to scrum, doing nothing in between and getting the snot kicked out of him - I think it was a case of him being the last one standing as far as front rowers were because so much of the chiefs tight 5 stocks was was on the injured list.

But in ITM this year he's got better and better, he must have had some injury or fitness problem then and he's in much better shape now he's on fire, tore Crockett to bits. I've been a bit of a Crockett supporter and I think he's had some hard times with Refs but in that game he was trying to go in on an angle on White because everytime they had a nice straight scrum Crockett was getting wasted.

So Renata got a great platform and lots of good ball, he did play ok and kick very well though it was a shame Waikato only scored two trys. Win is a win, which is great but I cant help but feel that if donald had been there they would have been a good chance to get 5 points in that game considering how much of the ball they had.

Obviously the other thing of note was the return of Sivivatu...

Big call to bring him on for speight at half time. Henry has actually been in very good form lately. Better than Mickleson or Sweeny I think.

Sivi kinda looks a bit pudgy but he ran ok. His defence wasn't great he seemed to keep bouncing off tackles?! I think I saw him bounce off about 5 tackles in total. It was a lot, quite strange.

To me sivi really didn't look ready for test rugby. Looked about 3-5 weeks away.

Looks like we have a rematch this weekend!

 

[donmcdazzle]

So Renata got a great platform and lots of good ball, he did play ok and kick very well though it was a shame Waikato only scored two trys. Win is a win, which is great but I cant help but feel that if donald had been there they would have been a good chance to get 5 points in that game considering how much of the ball they had.

QUOTE]

The love affair between Larksea and Donald continues!

In all seriousness, are you a relative or friend of his? I've never known a non-family member or friend to be so keen on any player let alone an average one.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

So Renata got a great platform and lots of good ball, he did play ok and kick very well though it was a shame Waikato only scored two trys. Win is a win, which is great but I cant help but feel that if donald had been there they would have been a good chance to get 5 points in that game considering how much of the ball they had.

The love affair between Larksea and Donald continues!

In all seriousness, are you a relative or friend of his? I've never known a non-family member or friend to be so keen on any player let alone an average one.

In all seriousness, are you blind, or do you have some other form of vision impediment? I've never known someone to ignore things right in front of their face, even if it's screaming at them.

 

[Larksea]

Yeah I guess me and the three all black coaches are in a 5 way love affair with Donald.

Grow up.

I thought that donald was needed to win that game because I thought the Waikato forwards would be in for a hiding from canterbury. fair point considering they got beaten by the turbo's forward pack the week before. But it seemed to me the return of Aled and the threat of missing out on the top 4 was enough to fuel the waikato forwards and they got over the red and blacks easy. Won a lot of posession and Renata played well. He is a good player.

Renata's done a good job for waikato this year, his kicking was patchy to start with but he always looked really good when he kicked, good technique - so the potential was there for his success rate to improve and it did very much so. But there were some interesting statistics for waikato just before donald came back. I think they had spent the most time in the oposition 22 and scored the least trys from it. I think Donald helped improve that statistic and the fact he scored ~5 trys and kicked ~96% for goal helped as well.

But lets say you're right Renata is awesome and donald is a quack. Then you will have to explian to me how donald took Renata's 10 jersy and earned an All Black callup from his performances? I'm sure that would be an interesting theory.