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War in Israel

G

gingergenius

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 9 2009, 11:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 8 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jan 5 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point was that I don't understand why Arab world should be more collective than Europe which I cited as an example not really to trigger the usual Euro scepticism comments.[/b]

Well what do you want me to say? Europe is disunited as a whole because it doesn't have one concurrent cultural connection of cause d'etiere. The Arab world however certainly does, specifically over Israel being there on what it envisions as its turf and general Western policy towards the region period. It tends to galvanise popular support across the Middle East.
[/b][/quote]
I think political disunity is good for Europe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You slag me off about being pro-euro and all that, but my basic point is you should provide people with a fundamental system (currency, level market) and let them do whatever they want. Because people are mostly good, and they're much better than state employees (non-people) at figuring out what's wrong.[/b]


Security is a different matter - and veeery difficult!

I recommend you get a shotgun - otherwise the Munster wolves will devour your pink Saracen bunny rabbits. Again.
[/b][/quote]

Heh, last time I checked, it was a tired old Munster wolf, covered in a thousand Camel bites that just about staggered over the finishing line whilst being harraunged by Richard Hill at the RICOH Stadium in 2007. It is very easy for the winner to re-write history is it not? ;)

We already have a fundemental system which offers a currency and a level market, it is called a nation state with sovereignty over its own affairs Defense, Economic, Foreign and Social co-operating as part of a Trade Bloc/Cartel with several other nation states in an act of mutual selfish self-interest.

Wars of words between Euro-philes and Euro-sceptics will continue until the European Union either turns into a neo-facist superstate, fades into obscurity or gets conqured by the Grand Asian Alliance or a combination of the three. As long as the philes don't wheel out the tired and tedious "blah blah blah xenophibic/bigot/racist" and the sceptics for their part keep the annoying and embarrasing "blah blah effing commies/facist/commie-facists/French" comments to themselves then its all good debate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 9 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 9 2009, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All of us will know there are certain characteristics which will tell us someone's probably Jewish. Surnames ending with -witz or -stein don't come from Hebrew, but tend to indicate someone's jewish. Also, there are features such as a hooked nose and darker complexion (typical of most semitic peoples); and a larger jaw which it's more common for jewish people to have than any other group (just look at Amy Winehouse, Ben Stiller or a lot of the people who went to my school).[/b]
Amy says she's Jewish, but she's really an Arab - classic bone structure. Mind you, those chicken legs means she must be black. And the big sausage munching jaw? Prussian without doubt. Of course the ***s say USA all the way.

What about all the red haired Jews - definitely Irish, IMHO.

Surprised to hear you went to a Jewish school. Why the bitterness? Did you get a hot Stiller wedgie in the shower?

Seriously, semitic means Arab and Jew. And what about the Berbers - thought you had some sympathy for them. Why aren't they included in your rant?
[/b][/quote]

Face it guys, me and Shtove have you cornered!

For the record, Ariel Sharon sounds like a Frenchman and human to boot! Once a frog, always a frog.
[/b][/quote]

yeah whatever. you can sit back and be patronising all you like, the fact remains that what i said actually makes sense (or can you not realise that some humans do have different characteristics, and no it's not racist to say so).
 
P

Prestwick

Guest
No, it didn't make sense, that is why me and Shtove (separately rather than in a co-ordinated nature) intervened.

But now peace & goodwill has broken out, I'm not needed any more, carry on..
 
E

Enguelaz

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 10 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Im dissapointed with both of your replies.My gesture made no demands on you only friendship, why should yours be any different. The offer is still there to live peacefully side by side on TRF.
Anyway must go Im off to Prague for the weekend,I look forwards to seeing your replies on my return.[/b]

Dude, i never had any other intention. I personally can accept that people have different points of views than mine without resorting to insults and other extreme/stretched assimilations... I missed seeing this in your posts. (i am not throwing a stone, i am only giving my point of view according to my experience during the build up of this thread...)

Difference and disagreement are the few last things of interest in this society, let's try to keep it this way as long as we can... if we were all the same and all agreeing to each other it would get VERY boring and meaningless...
 
F

Fred187

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 10 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Im dissapointed with both of your replies.My gesture made no demands on you only friendship, why should yours be any different. The offer is still there to live peacefully side by side on TRF.
Anyway must go Im off to Prague for the weekend,I look forwards to seeing your replies on my return.[/b]

It's simple; I cannot be friends with somebody who accuses me of lying. I may have insulted you during that arguement, but I never accused you of lying. If you are able to do the same, then we have no problem.

Prague is very nice, by the way - I was there last year.
 
S

shtove

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 10 2009, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
yeah whatever. you can sit back and be patronising all you like, the fact remains that what i said actually makes sense (or can you not realise that some humans do have different characteristics, and no it's not racist to say so).[/b]
Well, I agree about racial characteristics. But those characteristics don't stop at the race borderline. Fact is many Jews and Arabs are physically indistinguishable, as are many Jews and Europeans.

Anyway, I felt you were about to cross a line that I guess you don't really want to cross.
 
A

alexrugby

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 11 2009, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Well, I agree about racial characteristics. But those characteristics don't stop at the race borderline. Fact is many Jews and Arabs are physically indistinguishable, as are many Jews and Europeans.

Anyway, I felt you were about to cross a line that I guess you don't really want to cross.[/b]


Just stop them my friend

I don't want the war to continue, death rate of children in Gaza is peaked

**** it is not goooooodddddddd
 
A

alexrugby

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 11 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Yeah mate, Dave Moffet is doing some bad sh*t man...[/b]


Israeli authorities call for further invasion and Cleaning of Gaza

"terrorists must be cleared off Gaza" they say "we can change the reality in Gaza as our army does well, it is not possible to make an additional mistake now, we must clean Gaza of terrorists"

I think even more blood will be there

God damn it Children, elderly and women are dying, I don't mention here military persons

And what is interesting and stupid is the Palestine's action, as they do not stop bombing Israeli cities

What these people are thinking about
 
F

Fred187

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Jan 12 2009, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 11 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah mate, Dave Moffet is doing some bad sh*t man...[/b]


Israeli authorities call for further invasion and Cleaning of Gaza

"terrorists must be cleared off Gaza" they say "we can change the reality in Gaza as our army does well, it is not possible to make an additional mistake now, we must clean Gaza of terrorists"

I think even more blood will be there

God damn it Children, elderly and women are dying, I don't mention here military persons

And what is interesting and stupid is the Palestine's action, as they do not stop bombing Israeli cities

What these people are thinking about
[/b][/quote]

From their point of view, the more bloodshed Israel commits against them, the more the rest of the world gets worked up against Israel and the higher the chance of international intervention on their side. Not saying it's a good call - they're sacrificing a lot of innocent people, and it's militarily innefective (I'm not completely sure, but last I heard they had killed under ten people) - but it's a clear tactical angle.
 
A

alexrugby

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 12 2009, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Jan 12 2009, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 11 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah mate, Dave Moffet is doing some bad sh*t man...[/b]


Israeli authorities call for further invasion and Cleaning of Gaza

"terrorists must be cleared off Gaza" they say "we can change the reality in Gaza as our army does well, it is not possible to make an additional mistake now, we must clean Gaza of terrorists"

I think even more blood will be there

God damn it Children, elderly and women are dying, I don't mention here military persons

And what is interesting and stupid is the Palestine's action, as they do not stop bombing Israeli cities

What these people are thinking about
[/b][/quote]

From their point of view, the more bloodshed Israel commits against them, the more the rest of the world gets worked up against Israel and the higher the chance of international intervention on their side. Not saying it's a good call - they're sacrificing a lot of innocent people, and it's militarily innefective (I'm not completely sure, but last I heard they had killed under ten people) - but it's a clear tactical angle.
[/b][/quote]

The strategy which is absolutely that of mentally retarded
 
F

Fred187

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Jan 12 2009, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 12 2009, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Jan 12 2009, 05:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 11 2009, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah mate, Dave Moffet is doing some bad sh*t man...[/b]


Israeli authorities call for further invasion and Cleaning of Gaza

"terrorists must be cleared off Gaza" they say "we can change the reality in Gaza as our army does well, it is not possible to make an additional mistake now, we must clean Gaza of terrorists"

I think even more blood will be there

God damn it Children, elderly and women are dying, I don't mention here military persons

And what is interesting and stupid is the Palestine's action, as they do not stop bombing Israeli cities

What these people are thinking about
[/b][/quote]

From their point of view, the more bloodshed Israel commits against them, the more the rest of the world gets worked up against Israel and the higher the chance of international intervention on their side. Not saying it's a good call - they're sacrificing a lot of innocent people, and it's militarily innefective (I'm not completely sure, but last I heard they had killed under ten people) - but it's a clear tactical angle.
[/b][/quote]

The strategy which is absolutely that of mentally retarded



[/b][/quote]

Or the very desperate - there's not really anything else they can do to fight back, since the can't even come close to matching Israel militarily.
 
C

Canadian_Rugger

Guest
If you think those people being killed are all a bunch of innocent civilians your dead wrong... I guarantee you most are men and most are of fighting age. It is a problem of any insurgency, the fact that you don't know who the enemy is.

The fact is, the only way these two groups are ever going to settle anything is if they sit down and talk. Why would we send in a peacekeeping force???? neither side wants to give to the other. A classic peacekeeping mission would require that both sides were willing to talk and reach a settlement. This is not present at the moment... that may change though if Israel deals a striking blow to Hamas. Hamas militants are fanatics... but their political wing and leadership are not so foolish.... they know they are going to have to eventually sit down with Israel and discuss terms. Whats the difference if Israel is at war with them ... if they aren't fighting Israel they will fight each other instead.

Also do you really think a western army would want to engage the Israeli military in any sort of Combat whatsoever, yes lets invade Israel and you'll see D-Day like casualties. I agree with Danny, if we had the same problems in our state you could be rest assured that our governments would be retaliating with the maximum amount of force possible.

It seems as it would be quite easy for both sides to sit down and engage in diplomacy but what good would that do for the Palestinian militant groups who are in power. Hamas is built on the premise of the complete destruction of the Israeli state, if peace were to occur Hamas leadership would lose all of its legitimacy, it should be noted that not one of their leaders called for peace.
 
M

melon

Guest
My 14 year old brother made quite an interesting point this evening whilst travelling back from Sydney. He said "Nuke all the problem making f***ers".

I of course don't endorse such views but I see his reasoning.
 
P

Prestwick

Guest
Gentlemen, there is one nation and one nation only who can solve this:

IRELAND:

FATHER_TED_Down_with_this_sort_of_t.jpg
 
M

melon

Guest
Hahaha I saw that the other day! Have it on DVD!!!!

****!

Anyway, it doesn't look like a cease fire will be upon us anytime soon.

The White House has already started drawing up plans for a resolution....f***ING IDIOTS. Sheer arrogance. Next thing you know, they'll send 10 000 troops there to kill even more civilians.
 
F

Fred187

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
If you think those people being killed are all a bunch of innocent civilians your dead wrong... I guarantee you most are men and most are of fighting age. It is a problem of any insurgency, the fact that you don't know who the enemy is.

The fact is, the only way these two groups are ever going to settle anything is if they sit down and talk. Why would we send in a peacekeeping force???? neither side wants to give to the other. A classic peacekeeping mission would require that both sides were willing to talk and reach a settlement. This is not present at the moment... that may change though if Israel deals a striking blow to Hamas. Hamas militants are fanatics... but their political wing and leadership are not so foolish.... they know they are going to have to eventually sit down with Israel and discuss terms. Whats the difference if Israel is at war with them ... if they aren't fighting Israel they will fight each other instead.

Also do you really think a western army would want to engage the Israeli military in any sort of Combat whatsoever, yes lets invade Israel and you'll see D-Day like casualties. I agree with Danny, if we had the same problems in our state you could be rest assured that our governments would be retaliating with the maximum amount of force possible.

It seems as it would be quite easy for both sides to sit down and engage in diplomacy but what good would that do for the Palestinian militant groups who are in power. Hamas is built on the premise of the complete destruction of the Israeli state, if peace were to occur Hamas leadership would lose all of its legitimacy, it should be noted that not one of their leaders called for peace.[/b]

Insurgency? Gaza is essentially a giant Palestinian refugee camp, and the attacks have been launched by 'leaders' of said refugee camp - there is no evidence of any insurgents involved, and no reason to assume there would be. Moreover, the vast majority of Palestinian victims are simply refugees living on the Gaza strips - the militancy before Israel's most recent campaign started was tiny (as the Israeli death toll implies), although current events will undoubtedly lift it.
 
E

Enguelaz

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
If you think those people being killed are all a bunch of innocent civilians your dead wrong... I guarantee you most are men and most are of fighting age.[/b]

How can you be so sure of this? Would you have sources of information we don't have access to? Please share them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Also do you really think a western army would want to engage the Israeli military in any sort of Combat whatsoever, yes lets invade Israel and you'll see D-Day like casualties.[/b]

You're right. The western world has too much to lose if they were to attack Israel and as you say, there would be too many human casualties. but also the U.S wouldn't be too happy to bomb and destroy their own tanks, planes and other weaponry.

We all know Israel is a fairly small country, but what people do not know much is that Israel has the 6th or 7th most powerful army in the WORLD, which makes it easily the most powerful army in the middle east now that Irak as been colonised.

but wait, there's also this:

"According to the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Federation of American Scientists, Israel possesses around 75–200 nuclear weapons. Imagery analysts can identify weapon bunkers, mobile missile launchers, and launch sites in satellite photographs. Israel may have tested a nuclear weapon along with South Africa in 1979, but this has never been confirmed (see Vela Incident).

On May 26, 2008, ex-US president Jimmy Carter stated that Israel has “150 or more nuclear warheads†at a press conference at the annual literary Hay festival in Wales."

So yeah, for sure, no one is going to f#ck with Israel, which lead me to the conclusion that Hamas:

- either don't know what we know but i doubt it,
- are completely out of their mind and are going for the suicidal tactics, which wouldn't be surprising, any fanatic of any confession would consider suicide if it serves their purpose... (but what purpose? being annihilated?)
- or this war has got an other purpose or even is a decoy... but this we'll never really know.

When you start digging the newspapers on Israel's activity you start to find interesting things like this:

Mossad 'hit' on Iranian nuke scientist

U.S. Rejected Aid for Israeli Raid on Iranian Nuclear Site

Israel And Iran Scramble In The Shadows

Funny how they want to keep their nuclear program secret but are trying to do anything in their power to stop Iran doing the same thing they do...

I guess what i am trying to say is: Just don't look at the face value of this war, but also consider the causes and most importantly the consequences of this war on the middle east.

No wonder why most people (me included) understand nothing to this war. I mean, come on, it has been going on for about 50 years... if there was ever a chance of peace, they'd have found it by now don't you think?

So are they fighting until one or the other completely disappears? Is it a hardcore "team deathmatch"? for what purpose? Hamas knows they have no chance to withstand Isreal's firepower... is it for territory? Israel already took over 95% of Palestine and again, Hamas do not have the means to take back territory by force...

Is it about Ideology, a Holly War? most people would think so... but then again, for example, how come there are more than 20.000 jewish living in Iran, and they seem to do just fine in a country "ranked in the top 5" "bad guys" on this planet.

Why, despite all the sweet talking of the politics all around the world, does the UN and the powers that be take no action to stop ONCE AND FOR ALL Hamas firing rockets at Israel and stop Israel breaching international laws and bombing the sh*t out Gaza.

So ask yourself this question: What the hell is really going on out there?
 
F

Fred187

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enguelaz @ Jan 13 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you think those people being killed are all a bunch of innocent civilians your dead wrong... I guarantee you most are men and most are of fighting age.[/b]

How can you be so sure of this? Would you have sources of information we don't have access to? Please share them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ Jan 13 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Also do you really think a western army would want to engage the Israeli military in any sort of Combat whatsoever, yes lets invade Israel and you'll see D-Day like casualties.[/b]

You're right. The western world has too much to lose if they were to attack Israel and as you say, there would be too many human casualties. but also the U.S wouldn't be too happy to bomb and destroy their own tanks, planes and other weaponry.

We all know Israel is a fairly small country, but what people do not know much is that Israel has the 6th or 7th most powerful army in the WORLD, which makes it easily the most powerful army in the middle east now that Irak as been colonised.

but wait, there's also this:

"According to the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Federation of American Scientists, Israel possesses around 75–200 nuclear weapons. Imagery analysts can identify weapon bunkers, mobile missile launchers, and launch sites in satellite photographs. Israel may have tested a nuclear weapon along with South Africa in 1979, but this has never been confirmed (see Vela Incident).

On May 26, 2008, ex-US president Jimmy Carter stated that Israel has "150 or more nuclear warheads" at a press conference at the annual literary Hay festival in Wales."

So yeah, for sure, no one is going to f#ck with Israel, which lead me to the conclusion that Hamas:

- either don't know what we know but i doubt it,
- are completely out of their mind and are going for the suicidal tactics, which wouldn't be surprising, any fanatic of any confession would consider suicide if it serves their purpose... (but what purpose? being annihilated?)
- or this war has got an other purpose or even is a decoy... but this we'll never really know.

When you start digging the newspapers on Israel's activity you start to find interesting things like this:

Mossad 'hit' on Iranian nuke scientist

U.S. Rejected Aid for Israeli Raid on Iranian Nuclear Site

Israel And Iran Scramble In The Shadows

Funny how they want to keep their nuclear program secret but are trying to do anything in their power to stop Iran doing the same thing they do...

I guess what i am trying to say is: Just don't look at the face value of this war, but also consider the causes and most importantly the consequences of this war on the middle east.

No wonder why most people (me included) understand nothing to this war. I mean, come on, it has been going on for about 50 years... if there was ever a chance of peace, they'd have found it by now don't you think?

So are they fighting until one or the other completely disappears? Is it a hardcore "team deathmatch"? for what purpose? Hamas knows they have no chance to withstand Isreal's firepower... is it for territory? Israel already took over 95% of Palestine and again, Hamas do not have the means to take back territory by force...

Is it about Ideology, a Holly War? most people would think so... but then again, for example, how come there are more than 20.000 jewish living in Iran, and they seem to do just fine in a country "ranked in the top 5" "bad guys" on this planet.

Why, despite all the sweet talking of the politics all around the world, does the UN and the powers that be take no action to stop ONCE AND FOR ALL Hamas firing rockets at Israel and stop Israel breaching international laws and bombing the sh*t out Gaza.

So ask yourself this question: What the hell is really going on out there?
[/b][/quote]

They didn't mind at all in Iraq (for anyone who isn't aware, the US supplied Saddam with many of his weapons). But I agree - I just can't see international military action against Israel as something very likely to happen anytime soon. Probably just some meaningless U.N. sanctions - just like the League of Nations during the buildup to the Second World War...
 

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