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War in Israel

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 9 2009, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 9 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jan 5 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point was that I don't understand why Arab world should be more collective than Europe which I cited as an example not really to trigger the usual Euro scepticism comments.[/b]

Well what do you want me to say? Europe is disunited as a whole because it doesn't have one concurrent cultural connection of cause d'etiere. The Arab world however certainly does, specifically over Israel being there on what it envisions as its turf and general Western policy towards the region period. It tends to galvanise popular support across the Middle East.
[/b][/quote]
I think political disunity is good for Europe.

You slag me off about being pro-euro and all that, but my basic point is you should provide people with a fundamental system (currency, level market) and let them do whatever they want. Because people are mostly good, and they're much better than state employees (non-people) at figuring out what's wrong. [/b][/quote]

I'd say that statement is very debatable, as my good friend Danny is proving. I'd say the best way to measure what proportion of people are 'good' is to study Nazi Germany. Many of the people who come across as 'good' in our society are actually just sheep, and only seem good because, on the whole, our society is quite a good one - which means as soon as you turn that around, most people go with the flow (be it good or bad). Relatively few people are 'good' regardless. 'Heart of Darkness' pretty much covers all of this'.
[/b][/quote]

Interestingly, I recently saw a documentary (can't remember what it was called) covering people's "gang" mentality. It took 2 groups of very ordinary,everyday UK residents and set them certain challenges in which they would compete against each other. They didn't know they were being studied for this "pack behaviour" but consented to the release of the doc. once informed after filming. The groups were seperated according to eye colour.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that one team was artificially more succesful than the other (achieved by cunningly sabotaging the other teams efforts). A psychologist was planted in the successful group and easily managed to convince them that their eye colour was indicative of genetic superiority. They swalled it all and loved believing that they were superior. The scary thing is it was so easy to convince seemingly educated and friendly people.

This just shows how easy it was to convince many Germans of their "Aryan" superiority over the Jews, Slavs etc. in the 30's, and how easy it is now for, say the Jews in Israel to stereotype the Palestinians and dehumanise them in their own minds and thus "free" themselves of any ethical issues. I use this merely as an example and I'm not at all saying the Israeli's all do this, but one can be certain that individuals on both sides are easily convinced of their neighbour's "inferiority".
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 9 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
A UN led invasion of Israel? That would be good. Replace a soverign democratic state with a bunch of Islamic extremists. Get in the f***ing real world.If you feel so strongly about helping the Palestinians why arnt you out there? You come on here spouting your anti-free world ******** , pretend your a Jew just to make your denouncement of Israels actions hold more weight. Well you should appreciate the freedom and life we live in Britain and what its taken through the ages to get to where we are rather than defend a completely alien set of values and religion.
To criticise Englands proud history shows you have no real grasp of reality and you certainly dont know your history.[/b]

A couple of other points, Danny. First, you are an undeniable hypocrite. You try to criticise me for getting at 'England's proud history', and yet you're absolutely ready to do the same thing to France...

Secondly, why exactly does me being a Jew give my arguement more weight? That indicates that you value anything said by a Jew above anything said by a non-Jew, conclusively proving that you are also racist.

2 for 1, thank you very much, you racist hypocrite.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 9 2009, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jan 9 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.[/b]

I disagree completely; the right side and the wrong side became clear as soon as the whole conflict began in the late 40s. The simple fact of the matter is, there used to exist a nation called Palestine. Some British (ashamedly, a Scotsman) zionist conservative politician decides that should be the homeland for the Jews, so he gives the many other zionists the needed support to make that happen, allowing them to throw out the native peoples and declare the land to be 'Israel'. It's pretty black and white - they stole the land from it's natives, and have been opressing them ever since. The only reason people don't see it like that is because they are blind-sided by distaste for anti-semitism and 'terrorists'.
[/b][/quote]

You're partly right. I think it was wrong indeed for that land to be taken and I always have.
But, what of the issue of the 2nd and 3rd generation Isreali's now living in Israel. That land is their home. One can't simply evict them and say that solves the problem in a fair and ethical way. The reality is the current situation isn't anyone in particular's fault but undoubtedly all this trouble would have been averted had the Jews remained in Europe.

The right and wrong side may have been clear in the 40's, but it isn't now. 60 years has complicated the issue and now blame lies with both sides, though Israel I agree should probably share a larger proportion of it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 9 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
A UN led invasion of Israel? That would be good. Replace a soverign democratic state with a bunch of Islamic extremists. Get in the f***ing real world.If you feel so strongly about helping the Palestinians why arnt you out there? You come on here spouting your anti-free world ******** , pretend your a Jew just to make your denouncement of Israels actions hold more weight. Well you should appreciate the freedom and life we live in Britain and what its taken through the ages to get to where we are rather than defend a completely alien set of values and religion.
To criticise Englands proud history shows you have no real grasp of reality and you certainly dont know your history.[/b]

that right there is GOLD... A really well summed up, unbiaised analysis on the situation, with in-depth evidence gathered through extensive research...

can't get better than that...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 9 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 9 2009, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All of us will know there are certain characteristics which will tell us someone's probably Jewish. Surnames ending with -witz or -stein don't come from Hebrew, but tend to indicate someone's jewish. Also, there are features such as a hooked nose and darker complexion (typical of most semitic peoples); and a larger jaw which it's more common for jewish people to have than any other group (just look at Amy Winehouse, Ben Stiller or a lot of the people who went to my school).[/b]
Amy says she's Jewish, but she's really an Arab - classic bone structure. Mind you, those chicken legs means she must be black. And the big sausage munching jaw? Prussian without doubt. Of course the ***s say USA all the way.

What about all the red haired Jews - definitely Irish, IMHO.

Surprised to hear you went to a Jewish school. Why the bitterness? Did you get a hot Stiller wedgie in the shower?

Seriously, semitic means Arab and Jew. And what about the Berbers - thought you had some sympathy for them. Why aren't they included in your rant?
[/b][/quote]

what's your point?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 9 2009, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jan 9 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.[/b]

I disagree completely; the right side and the wrong side became clear as soon as the whole conflict began in the late 40s. The simple fact of the matter is, there used to exist a nation called Palestine. Some British (ashamedly, a Scotsman) zionist conservative politician decides that should be the homeland for the Jews, so he gives the many other zionists the needed support to make that happen, allowing them to throw out the native peoples and declare the land to be 'Israel'. It's pretty black and white - they stole the land from it's natives, and have been opressing them ever since. The only reason people don't see it like that is because they are blind-sided by distaste for anti-semitism and 'terrorists'.
[/b][/quote]
You have shown your short-sighted ignorance once again.This conflict has gone on since ancient times, it didnt start in the late 40`s. Judea(the home of the Jews) was invaded by the romans and re-named Palestine. The Arabs then conquered this land and ruled for the next 1000 years.It goes on and on and both sides have a claim to the land. Nothing will ever be sorted out unless its done peacefully and they are prepared to live together.
You stupidly saying Israel: Bad Palestinians : Good shows how small minded and daft you and your sixth form mates are.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 9 2009, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 9 2009, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jan 9 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.[/b]

I disagree completely; the right side and the wrong side became clear as soon as the whole conflict began in the late 40s. The simple fact of the matter is, there used to exist a nation called Palestine. Some British (ashamedly, a Scotsman) zionist conservative politician decides that should be the homeland for the Jews, so he gives the many other zionists the needed support to make that happen, allowing them to throw out the native peoples and declare the land to be 'Israel'. It's pretty black and white - they stole the land from it's natives, and have been opressing them ever since. The only reason people don't see it like that is because they are blind-sided by distaste for anti-semitism and 'terrorists'.
[/b][/quote]
You have shown your short-sighted ignorance once again.This conflict has gone on since ancient times, it didnt start in the late 40`s. Judea(the home of the Jews) was invaded by the romans and re-named Palestine. The Arabs then conquered this land and ruled for the next 1000 years.It goes on and on and both sides have a claim to the land. Nothing will ever be sorted out unless its done peacefully and they are prepared to live together.
You stupidly saying Israel: Bad Palestinians : Good shows how small minded and daft you and your sixth form mates are.
[/b][/quote]

You're bang on point there.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 9 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 9 2009, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jan 9 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.[/b]

I disagree completely; the right side and the wrong side became clear as soon as the whole conflict began in the late 40s. The simple fact of the matter is, there used to exist a nation called Palestine. Some British (ashamedly, a Scotsman) zionist conservative politician decides that should be the homeland for the Jews, so he gives the many other zionists the needed support to make that happen, allowing them to throw out the native peoples and declare the land to be 'Israel'. It's pretty black and white - they stole the land from it's natives, and have been opressing them ever since. The only reason people don't see it like that is because they are blind-sided by distaste for anti-semitism and 'terrorists'.
[/b][/quote]
You have shown your short-sighted ignorance once again.This conflict has gone on since ancient times, it didnt start in the late 40`s. Judea(the home of the Jews) was invaded by the romans and re-named Palestine. The Arabs then conquered this land and ruled for the next 1000 years.It goes on and on and both sides have a claim to the land. Nothing will ever be sorted out unless its done peacefully and they are prepared to live together.
You stupidly saying Israel: Bad Palestinians : Good shows how small minded and daft you and your sixth form mates are.
[/b][/quote]

I guess you tried to make it simple and on purpose didn't mention neither the crusaders and the Franc kingdoms nor the Ottoman ruling.
 
This topic was started not for declaring who is with Islam terrorists and who is with Israel

Instead we thought this topic would provide more discussion among us-friensd on TRF about the events that I really think can overgrow into disastrous military campaign

WHAT IS MAIN IS THAT ALL OF US COME TO ONE POINT: WAR IS TERRIBLE THING, AND I LIKE THAT

And we did not mean for our friends to make -reputation scores and call each other stupid minded and terrorists

So please guys come down and just have healthy discussion

We love each other, this is TRF man!!!!! the greatest forum to enter

we-love-you.gif
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 9 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fred187 @ Jan 9 2009, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jan 9 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
**** you guys get wound up over nothing! People are people! Jews have 2 arms 2 legs and a brain just as everyone else does.

For the people who are taking sides on this Gaza conflict, just remember that each side see's its own actions as completely justified given the past history between the two states etc. There is no clear-cut right and wrong in this situation. Condemning one side and supporting the other to the hilt is not only ignorant, but stupid! It's impossible for any of us to even come close to understanding the situation or what it's like to actually live in Israel or Palestine.
Have an opinion but make sure you're well informed before you start deriding ethnic groups or religions.[/b]

I disagree completely; the right side and the wrong side became clear as soon as the whole conflict began in the late 40s. The simple fact of the matter is, there used to exist a nation called Palestine. Some British (ashamedly, a Scotsman) zionist conservative politician decides that should be the homeland for the Jews, so he gives the many other zionists the needed support to make that happen, allowing them to throw out the native peoples and declare the land to be 'Israel'. It's pretty black and white - they stole the land from it's natives, and have been opressing them ever since. The only reason people don't see it like that is because they are blind-sided by distaste for anti-semitism and 'terrorists'.
[/b][/quote]
You have shown your short-sighted ignorance once again.This conflict has gone on since ancient times, it didnt start in the late 40`s. Judea(the home of the Jews) was invaded by the romans and re-named Palestine. The Arabs then conquered this land and ruled for the next 1000 years.It goes on and on and both sides have a claim to the land. Nothing will ever be sorted out unless its done peacefully and they are prepared to live together.
You stupidly saying Israel: Bad Palestinians : Good shows how small minded and daft you and your sixth form mates are.
[/b][/quote]

'My sixth form mates'!? What are you on?

Moreover, I simply don't agree that you can bring up the history of over 1000 years ago and use it as a reason to do anything - if that was legitimate, then anyone of Saxon descent could decide to kick out everybody of Norman descent, would that be fair? History is only entirely relavent in modern issues (other than as a tool for learning) withing living memory. 60 years is very much living memory; 1000 years is not.

I completely agree that a peaceful solution would be great, but that's the responsibility of Israel - the perpatrators - and not Palestine - the victims.

Also, you have failed to respond to a single one of my questions or points. I take it that you are unable rather than unwilling. All you seem to come up with is 'you don't know your facts' - you haven't actually provided any relevant ones yourself. As I said, just telling somebody 'you're wrong' and 'you're lying' isn't an arguement.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LeksoRugby @ Jan 10 2009, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
This topic was started not for declaring who is with Islam terrorists and who is with Israel

Instead we thought this topic would provide more discussion among us-friensd on TRF about the events that I really think can overgrow into disastrous military campaign

WHAT IS MAIN IS THAT ALL OF US COME TO ONE POINT: WAR IS TERRIBLE THING, AND I LIKE THAT

And we did not mean for our friends to make -reputation scores and call each other stupid minded and terrorists

So please guys come down and just have healthy discussion

We love each other, this is TRF man!!!!! the greatest forum to enter[/b]

I'd like to agree with you, and I have no problem with anybody disagreeing with anything or everything I say. But when somebody acuses me of lying (as Danny has several times), I'm simply not going to sit back and take it.

Not only that, but he has committed (again, several times) the two things in the world that I view as completely intolerable - racism and hypocrisy.
 
I think the general misconception of people like myself who can't get politics is that Palestine is 'bad' and that Israel is persecuted. Generally, the neutrals think Israel is on the good side, and that Palestine is the aggressor.. if a bomb goes off in Tel Aviv it's a terrorist action and if Israel attacks Palestine, that's ok because they was defending themselves.

I think the thing here is that peace cannot be achieved because of the stereotyping, hatred and traditionalism that i assume Israelis and Palestinians are brought up with of each other.

In my opinion, historical geography does not really have any relevance these days.. and i'm sure if Israel showed Palestinians some genuine offer and gave them what they needed, then that's half the problem solved. It's up to the Palestinians not to take that olive branch over it's knee and snap it in half.

It's like the Kurds on the Turkish/Iraqi border. The are regarded as terrorists and rebels. They are not Turks and they are not Iraqis, they are the result of things that are out of their control and should just be given some land that they can call their own.

In this day and age, no nations actually owns anything.. rather it's their previously won territory that was gained years ago by war or occupation. Surely, with some common sense some agreement can be found for situations like this, rather than just bombing the **** out of each other.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fa'atau82 @ Jan 9 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I think the general misconception of people like myself who can't get politics is that Palestine is 'bad' and that Israel is persecuted. Generally, the neutrals think Israel is on the good side, and that Palestine is the aggressor.. if a bomb goes off in Tel Aviv it's a terrorist action and if Israel attacks Palestine, that's ok because they was defending themselves.

I think the thing here is that peace cannot be achieved because of the stereotyping, hatred and traditionalism that i assume Israelis and Palestinians are brought up with of each other.

In my opinion, historical geography does not really have any relevance these days.. and i'm sure if Israel showed Palestinians some genuine offer and gave them what they needed, then that's half the problem solved. It's up to the Palestinians not to take that olive branch over it's knee and snap it in half.

It's like the Kurds on the Turkish/Iraqi border. The are regarded as terrorists and rebels. They are not Turks and they are not Iraqis, they are the result of things that are out of their control and should just be given some land that they can call their own.

In this day and age, no nations actually owns anything.. rather it's their previously won territory that was gained years ago by war or occupation. Surely, with some common sense some agreement can be found for situations like this, rather than just bombing the **** out of each other.[/b]

Where Have You Been Fatau??? couldn't you post this words previously and add more charm to our discussion??????

Yeah I agree you and still I stand on my mind: if somebody fires me bombs I will answer them

But evertything this (mean bombs and etc) are derived from religious or other fundamentalisms as is the case with Israeli and Palestinian militaries.

Reasons are different but all of them look stupid

For example Russia was shouting as if Georgia was tortuing small ethnical minorities inside our country that was absolute lie and thousands of Russian tanks entered my country this August with aim to defend these ethnical minorities

And what we have now??? Russia occupies two regions of my country (which actually without Russian help is small) and says they are free republics meanwhile gradually inserts these territories inside its own influence

The reason you ask me???? Influence on Caucasus

So people are the same all over the wrold God damn it :rahh: :rahh: :rahh: :rahh: :rahh: :rahh: :rahh:
 
This thread has been like the current conflict. Lots of bad blood and hatred. To start the ball rolling Id like to follow Lekso `s lead and help us move towards peace by offering the olive branch to Fred and Enguelez. Im sure we can set an example to the Israeli and Palestinians. Who knows this may have wider ramifications in the middle east? Go-on be big enough to accept my hand of friendship.
 
I have a solution.

Me, and 5 of my TRF representatives are going to hold a 'cook-off for peace' event in the Gaza Strip. We will take 10 random Israelis and 10 Palestinians and ask them to cook falafel and kebabs.

Also, in a humanitarian aid effort, Colonel Nate Rowlan will be bringing the navy flagship HMS Awesome and several bombers from the Commonwealth of Awesometonia and Radvalia du le grand nichons.

The bombers will drop payloads of Stade Francais shirts onto Israel and Palestine, to help nulify all that machismo in the region.
 
So, we seem to be reaching a conclusion...

Israelis and Palestinians both have viable claims to the land; that is what they are fighting over; and though Israel is being more brutal, both sides are committing atrocities against civilians which is unacceptable.

Clearly you can't have an 'Israel'; nor can you have a 'Palestine'. Neither are the sides happy with the current segregation situation. The solution has to be that they live together in the same country, and manage their issues like Belgium.

If everyone could just forget their differences , or even learn to celebrate differences, then you tend to find people can live together peacefully.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fa'atau82 @ Jan 9 2009, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I have a solution.

Me, and 5 of my TRF representatives are going to hold a 'cook-off for peace' event in the Gaza Strip. We will take 10 random Israelis and 10 Palestinians and ask them to cook falafel and kebabs.

Also, in a humanitarian aid effort, Colonel Nate Rowlan will be bringing the navy flagship HMS Awesome and several bombers from the Commonwealth of Awesometonia and Radvalia du le grand nichons.

The bombers will drop payloads of Stade Francais shirts onto Israel and Palestine, to help nulify all that machismo in the region.[/b]
falafel and kebabs??I loved it..I ate them last night
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 8 2009, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 6 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Jan 5 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My point was that I don't understand why Arab world should be more collective than Europe which I cited as an example not really to trigger the usual Euro scepticism comments.[/b]

Well what do you want me to say? Europe is disunited as a whole because it doesn't have one concurrent cultural connection of cause d'etiere. The Arab world however certainly does, specifically over Israel being there on what it envisions as its turf and general Western policy towards the region period. It tends to galvanise popular support across the Middle East.
[/b][/quote]
I think political disunity is good for Europe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You slag me off about being pro-euro and all that, but my basic point is you should provide people with a fundamental system (currency, level market) and let them do whatever they want. Because people are mostly good, and they're much better than state employees (non-people) at figuring out what's wrong.[/b]


Security is a different matter - and veeery difficult!

I recommend you get a shotgun - otherwise the Munster wolves will devour your pink Saracen bunny rabbits. Again.
[/b][/quote]

Heh, last time I checked, it was a tired old Munster wolf, covered in a thousand Camel bites that just about staggered over the finishing line whilst being harraunged by Richard Hill at the RICOH Stadium in 2007. It is very easy for the winner to re-write history is it not? ;)

We already have a fundemental system which offers a currency and a level market, it is called a nation state with sovereignty over its own affairs Defense, Economic, Foreign and Social co-operating as part of a Trade Bloc/Cartel with several other nation states in an act of mutual selfish self-interest.

Wars of words between Euro-philes and Euro-sceptics will continue until the European Union either turns into a neo-facist superstate, fades into obscurity or gets conqured by the Grand Asian Alliance or a combination of the three. As long as the philes don't wheel out the tired and tedious "blah blah blah xenophibic/bigot/racist" and the sceptics for their part keep the annoying and embarrasing "blah blah effing commies/facist/commie-facists/French" comments to themselves then its all good debate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jan 9 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Jan 9 2009, 06:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All of us will know there are certain characteristics which will tell us someone's probably Jewish. Surnames ending with -witz or -stein don't come from Hebrew, but tend to indicate someone's jewish. Also, there are features such as a hooked nose and darker complexion (typical of most semitic peoples); and a larger jaw which it's more common for jewish people to have than any other group (just look at Amy Winehouse, Ben Stiller or a lot of the people who went to my school).[/b]
Amy says she's Jewish, but she's really an Arab - classic bone structure. Mind you, those chicken legs means she must be black. And the big sausage munching jaw? Prussian without doubt. Of course the ***s say USA all the way.

What about all the red haired Jews - definitely Irish, IMHO.

Surprised to hear you went to a Jewish school. Why the bitterness? Did you get a hot Stiller wedgie in the shower?

Seriously, semitic means Arab and Jew. And what about the Berbers - thought you had some sympathy for them. Why aren't they included in your rant?
[/b][/quote]

Face it guys, me and Shtove have you cornered!

For the record, Ariel Sharon sounds like a Frenchman and human to boot! Once a frog, always a frog.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 10 2009, 05:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
This thread has been like the current conflict. Lots of bad blood and hatred. To start the ball rolling Id like to follow Lekso `s lead and help us move towards peace by offering the olive branch to Fred and Enguelez. Im sure we can set an example to the Israeli and Palestinians. Who knows this may have wider ramifications in the middle east? Go-on be big enough to accept my hand of friendship.[/b]

Absolutely. As long as you respect my honesty and integrity, then I'll happily accept said hand of friendship.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 10 2009, 05:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
This thread has been like the current conflict. Lots of bad blood and hatred. To start the ball rolling Id like to follow Lekso `s lead and help us move towards peace by offering the olive branch to Fred and Enguelez. Im sure we can set an example to the Israeli and Palestinians. Who knows this may have wider ramifications in the middle east? Go-on be big enough to accept my hand of friendship.[/b]

Thanks Danny... Now please read again my initial post and pin point where i actually wrote that i was pro-palestinian and a free world hater. I certainly question Israel in that conflict as their mean of response to rockets and the following attacks on UN properties are in my view disproportionate. but does that mean that I support people who fire rockets on civilians? Noway, what kind of sick people could naturaly think like that.

My point is that Danny, because i said something that you didn't agree with you assumed that i support the "wrong side"... and then followed the hatred, the insults and generalizations that i usually see on Fox news... that's was very disturbing... and at the end of the day, how are you ever sure you're on the "right side"? think about it...

Did you just one second thought that i could not agree with both the Hamas and Israel on different issues? Contrary to what we are taught at school or church (of any confession) and shown on TV, the world IS NOT just black and white, there are those shades of grey that we need to explore and which help us defining a fair judgement. and you usually end up being neutral... which certainly gives you a better view on the problem because you become a spectator to the game, not deeply involved in it and looking to fulfill your interests to the expense of fairness.

Seeing the world as black or white, muslim or jewish, democratic or totalitarian only leads to generalization and categorization. Roots of racism, antisemitism, hypocrisy, hatred, biaised judgment and ultimately what we witness today between Israel and Paletsine is the result of this categorization and generalization.

Danny, I appreciate you gesture, but i have never been at war with you, i was trying to expose and document a few points, the only thing i got in return is insults and leaps to conclusions, canceling any debate.

I will go further than Danny and say that this thread has in reality been at the image of our "free-world". We are so proud of our freedom of speech, respect of the difference, free thinking and all the apparent freedom and claim high and loud this is how it should be done in a Democratic world. But look at what happened on this forum, the same people claiming supporting the free world were in my view very aggressive and completely disrespecting of the bases of any democracy in the western world. That's the modern way of censoring the people we don't agree with. the governments do not need to do it and look totalitarian because the population is now doing this dirty work on its own.

This thread is a perfect example of the global mascarade we're part of and how easily we all become pawns in the game.

I accept your hand of friendship if you accept to stop categorizing, generalizing and offending the people you don't agree with.
 
Im dissapointed with both of your replies.My gesture made no demands on you only friendship, why should yours be any different. The offer is still there to live peacefully side by side on TRF.
Anyway must go Im off to Prague for the weekend,I look forwards to seeing your replies on my return.
 

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