P
Prestwick
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DonBilly @ Dec 30 2008, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Relations between Turkey and Israel are quite good actually. Iran is a different story.
The people who are suffering here are again the Palestinian, they didn't help their cause by voting in favour of the Hamas. The PLO although very corrupted looks like being a more reasonable force to negotiate with.
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I was going to point out that if the civilian Government of Turkey gave anything approaching monetary or material support to Hamas or Hezbollah, the (secular and pro western) Turkish Army would put a coup into motion quicker than you can say "Ataturk thinks the Euro is g*sh". Turkey's support for Hamas is sympathetic empty rhetoric, nothing else.
Palestine is in a toughie as Shtove points out. But this is what happens to a people denied the right to exist in what is their land as well. The state of Israel may have come about through the short sighted thoughts of incompetent Liberal Party grandees but the fact is that it is there. The writing on the wall was there in the late 1920s when the first boatloads of Europe's Jewish community came to Palestine and streams of the Jewish Community of the Soviet states flowed down from the north and the east through the Lebanon and Syria. What set in motion the now endless cycle were four things: the inability of the major powers of the world to either halt or even control events on the ground in Palestine, the inability of the Jewish community to accept a state shared with the Palestinians, the inability of the Palestinians to accept a state shared with the Jewish Community and the inability of the Arab nations surrounding Palestine to accept an independent Palestine period. Don't forget that both Egypt and Syria had designs on the north and south of Palestine whilst Jordan wanted to carve up parts of what is now the West Bank.
The PLO came about as Palestinian hopes funded and cynically manipulated by the Arab nations who were in themselves being fiddled by the Soviet Union. Israel itself meanwhile was quite happy to play the likes of Britain, France and the United States off each other in order to acheive its aims.
Since then, things have descended out of control. It is now at a point where nobody can quite remember at what point who did what to whom. Everyone knows about the exiled Palestinians, the Golan Heights and the West Bank Wall but that has all been clouded by *** for tat outbreaks of minor conflict which has only served to kill and create misery for Jew and Arab alike. What the likes of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades have done since 2000 has done more to set back progress towards an independent Palestinian state, the right of return and so on than anything the PLO had done.
Israel on the other hand, whilst they undeniably have the right to defend themselves, have to remember that they have had a major role in the downfall of the roadmap and the Oslo Accords. Things such as unrestrained building in the West Bank and a botched invasion of Southern Lebanon tinged with frankly obscene flights of fantasy by Israel's Air Force Generals have wrecked any kind of progress from the Israeli side of things. Olmert's decision to send the troops and planes into Southern Lebanon as well as his alleged corruption means that Kadima faces the serious possibility of losing against a revitalised Likud party...with the prospect of the montorous and bigoted Binyamin Netanyahu taking power once more. Yeah, nice one Ehud.
Now when I say "bigoted" I don't mean against Arabs. What I mean is that the both him and his father have time and time again disproved the theory that there is no such thing as racism between Jews. When in the Army, Binyamin always dismissed the African Jews as something nearing sub-human and insisted that they be commanded by European Jewish Officers, saying that they couldn't be trusted. The guy is a very nasty article. Lightyears away from his dead Brother Yoni who died during Operation Entebbe who was actually quite liberal and gentle in comparison.
Anyway, thats what I think, so nyah!
Relations between Turkey and Israel are quite good actually. Iran is a different story.
The people who are suffering here are again the Palestinian, they didn't help their cause by voting in favour of the Hamas. The PLO although very corrupted looks like being a more reasonable force to negotiate with.
[/b][/quote]
I was going to point out that if the civilian Government of Turkey gave anything approaching monetary or material support to Hamas or Hezbollah, the (secular and pro western) Turkish Army would put a coup into motion quicker than you can say "Ataturk thinks the Euro is g*sh". Turkey's support for Hamas is sympathetic empty rhetoric, nothing else.
Palestine is in a toughie as Shtove points out. But this is what happens to a people denied the right to exist in what is their land as well. The state of Israel may have come about through the short sighted thoughts of incompetent Liberal Party grandees but the fact is that it is there. The writing on the wall was there in the late 1920s when the first boatloads of Europe's Jewish community came to Palestine and streams of the Jewish Community of the Soviet states flowed down from the north and the east through the Lebanon and Syria. What set in motion the now endless cycle were four things: the inability of the major powers of the world to either halt or even control events on the ground in Palestine, the inability of the Jewish community to accept a state shared with the Palestinians, the inability of the Palestinians to accept a state shared with the Jewish Community and the inability of the Arab nations surrounding Palestine to accept an independent Palestine period. Don't forget that both Egypt and Syria had designs on the north and south of Palestine whilst Jordan wanted to carve up parts of what is now the West Bank.
The PLO came about as Palestinian hopes funded and cynically manipulated by the Arab nations who were in themselves being fiddled by the Soviet Union. Israel itself meanwhile was quite happy to play the likes of Britain, France and the United States off each other in order to acheive its aims.
Since then, things have descended out of control. It is now at a point where nobody can quite remember at what point who did what to whom. Everyone knows about the exiled Palestinians, the Golan Heights and the West Bank Wall but that has all been clouded by *** for tat outbreaks of minor conflict which has only served to kill and create misery for Jew and Arab alike. What the likes of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades have done since 2000 has done more to set back progress towards an independent Palestinian state, the right of return and so on than anything the PLO had done.
Israel on the other hand, whilst they undeniably have the right to defend themselves, have to remember that they have had a major role in the downfall of the roadmap and the Oslo Accords. Things such as unrestrained building in the West Bank and a botched invasion of Southern Lebanon tinged with frankly obscene flights of fantasy by Israel's Air Force Generals have wrecked any kind of progress from the Israeli side of things. Olmert's decision to send the troops and planes into Southern Lebanon as well as his alleged corruption means that Kadima faces the serious possibility of losing against a revitalised Likud party...with the prospect of the montorous and bigoted Binyamin Netanyahu taking power once more. Yeah, nice one Ehud.
Now when I say "bigoted" I don't mean against Arabs. What I mean is that the both him and his father have time and time again disproved the theory that there is no such thing as racism between Jews. When in the Army, Binyamin always dismissed the African Jews as something nearing sub-human and insisted that they be commanded by European Jewish Officers, saying that they couldn't be trusted. The guy is a very nasty article. Lightyears away from his dead Brother Yoni who died during Operation Entebbe who was actually quite liberal and gentle in comparison.
Anyway, thats what I think, so nyah!
