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What starting England XV would you want to see for 6 nations 2022 or Autumn test matches 2021?

TRF_Olyy

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Oh really? Pity, I thought he'd shifted fully to 15's.
I imagine the lure of a crack at an olympic medal is too strong to turn down - considering he signed after last years was postponed I wouldn't be surprised if Bath were aware that he wanted to go to this years if they went ahead
 

BPM

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Does the Olympics have the same allure when you know it won’t have the crowd etc.?

In any case, there are several good young wingers making a case so I’m not too fussed if Muir wants to stick with 7s.
 

TRF_Olyy

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An Olympic medal is an Olympic medal, regardless of crowds
Considering he went straight from uni into England 7s it will have been what he's been dedicating his life to since then
 

higgik

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He's always said he wants to hook. And why would we want to compromise on possibly very good in the back row when he's potentially superb (stopping short of GOAT atm.....) at hooker?

All depends on those pesky basics.


Try to put Sarries cheque book out of your mind, but just remind me which 2 of those clubs have won the last 6 Premiership titles. Or which 2 have won 4 out of the last 5 European titles. Or which team won the 19 RWC for that matter.

Its not an either / or question, or at least shouldn't be but I think it largely is for Eng. Good teams can flex their styles, but you're not going to find many successful sides that don't attend to the basics and don't have a healthy dose of pragmatism. Knowing when to flick the switch and being able to do so is one of the key differentiators of the best from the rest.
Agree and that is why I think Ford is finished.
I am a Sarries fan and have watched Farrell run games and think he is all round the 10 we should go with, followed by Joe Simmonds.

The difference with Farrell for Sarries is that he had excellent communicators to be his vision, which is his biggest weakness.
Assuming he is picked for Lions, my summer backline would be
9 Spencer (best box kicker and speed around ruck, good organiser)
10 Simmonds J
11 Thorley
12 Devoto
13 Lawrence
14 Nowell
15 Malins
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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I want a dead stop to Farrell ever starting in the 12 shirt. He can’t run, step or pass off both hands and should just be our 10 or bench 10 going forward.
 

Geordiefalcon

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Id prefer someone with at least the basics of a running game at 10 aswell though. Keeps the defences guessing then.
 

Jakedood

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Id prefer someone with at least the basics of a running game at 10 aswell though. Keeps the defences guessing then.
I think this is important in today's game, if you can stop defences drifting wide for even a split second longer, its amazing the space you find, plus with a forward pod outside, it provides another option rather than the 2/3 hard carrying lines
 

BPM

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I want a dead stop to Farrell ever starting in the 12 shirt. He can’t run, step or pass off both hands and should just be our 10 or bench 10 going forward.
Hang on, so you want a player that you don’t believe can ‘run, step or pass off both hands’ to play at 10 ... the main playmaking role in the side? Strange ...

If anything I would say the complete opposite. I agree that his running game and passing skills aren’t anything special but I think he’s far better at 12 than at 10 where his limitations are way more exposed.

In he absence of genuinely better options, I’m OK with him at 12 but never at 10.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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Hang on, so you want a player that you don’t believe can ‘run, step or pass off both hands’ to play at 10 ... the main playmaking role in the side? Strange ...

If anything I would say the complete opposite. I agree that his running game and passing skills aren’t anything special but I think he’s far better at 12 than at 10 where his limitations are way more exposed.

In he absence of genuinely better options, I’m OK with him at 12 but never at 10.
I don’t want him at all but I mean if I have to then keep him at 1 rather than 12. Personally I’d have Smith and Ford with Simmonds in the squad as well but Farrell has got credit in the bank.

Ive never been a huge Farrell plan and rarely if ever watching him think creates anything and his tactical kicking can be hit or miss. But he does mess up a lot of space and overlaps for the backs so really we should phase him out.
 

BPM

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I’m not a fan either. I’m OK with him as 12 but I’d love a better option to emerge so we could phase him out entirely.

Definitely not sure about him in the 1 shirt though ... might struggle at loosehead ;)
 

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I’m not a fan either. I’m OK with him as 12 but I’d love a better option to emerge so we could phase him out entirely.

Definitely not sure about him in the 1 shirt though ... might struggle at loosehead ;)
On the plus side, learning the scrummaging position might help lower his tackle height?
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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The problem I have with him at 12 is that you won’t ever get the best out of whoever plays 10 or 13 as they will be playing with a 12 that offers no threat.

It’s like making them strap one arm behind their back.
 

ncurd

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Drop Farrell, he isn't good enough in either position and a poor captain to boot. And we have to ting the hands behind the back of whoever if playing 10/12 to accommodate him.
 

MarkyH

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Drop Farrell, he isn't good enough in either position and a poor captain to boot. And we have to ting the hands behind the back of whoever if playing 10/12 to accommodate him.
Sack Farrell for being unloy, disloyal, and for joining in fun in a way that excludes his employer and sack him for being an absolute idiot, and inefficient
 

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I don’t want him at all but I mean if I have to then keep him at 1 rather than 12. Personally I’d have Smith and Ford with Simmonds in the squad as well but Farrell has got credit in the bank.

Ive never been a huge Farrell plan and rarely if ever watching him think creates anything and his tactical kicking can be hit or miss. But he does mess up a lot of space and overlaps for the backs so really we should phase him out.
Ford is still a 10/10 or 3/10. Mr inconsistent.
Smith and Simmonds for the summer, with Farrell back for AI as a 10.
 

Reiser99

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Ford is still a 10/10 or 3/10. Mr inconsistent.
Smith and Simmonds for the summer, with Farrell back for AI as a 10.
I wouldn't have Farrell back until he shows some form at club level. I doubt he will go on the lions tour if Gatland picks on form and playing in the championship will not be to a high enough standard. If Sarries get promoted then he'll have 2 months at best to show his form.
 

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I wouldn't have Farrell back until he shows some form at club level. I doubt he will go on the lions tour if Gatland picks on form and playing in the championship will not be to a high enough standard. If Sarries get promoted then he'll have 2 months at best to show his form.
Disagree, Farrell will go with Lions in some capacity, reserve 10 or 12, just because he has done it before and would be a good squad member.
 

Reiser99

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Disagree, Farrell will go with Lions in some capacity, reserve 10 or 12, just because he has done it before and would be a good squad member.
Yeah, cause picking on reputation worked so well this spring.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Yeah, cause picking on reputation worked so well this spring.
Gatland, though
He picks who he wants regardless of form or reason, always has done

Every coach (and player, even) who's worked with Farrell ends up loving him, and Farrell's toured under Gatland twice before
 

Reiser99

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Gatland, though
He picks who he wants regardless of form or reason, always has done

Every coach (and player, even) who's worked with Farrell ends up loving him, and Farrell's toured under Gatland twice before
I know and wouldn't be surprised that he goes. I just don't see the justification for it if you look at form.

Edit: Same as I don't think he should just walk back into the squad in the Autumn unless he's proved his form.
 

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