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Why don't we just make our own rugby game

nik

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Marketing of RC4 is terrible, I think its because because of "Early Access" which is an initiative by developer Wicked Witch only. All the FB and website updates seem to be by Wicked Witch not Tru Blu. I believe there would be some marketing budget but Tru Blu will only market when physical copies can be bought at stores.

Here's hoping Wicked Witch continually improve the game.
 

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Marketing of RC4 is terrible, I think its because because of "Early Access" which is an initiative by developer Wicked Witch only. All the FB and website updates seem to be by Wicked Witch not Tru Blu. I believe there would be some marketing budget but Tru Blu will only market when physical copies can be bought at stores.

Here's hoping Wicked Witch continually improve the game.

They are likely saving their marketing campaign for a christmas time release.
 

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They are likely saving their marketing campaign for a christmas time release.

But that's the problem here. Why not advertise it now?? People have the time now to play because of this pandemic and lockdown enforcements by government

By Christmas everyone will be on the next-gen console parade and trying to buy/pre-order PS5 or the new Xbox and it's games.

With the lack of live sport now also on tv, many guys revert to playing sports games, just to fill the void. It just doesn't make any sense to delay the marketing campaign for a game that is already out and for sale. It makes even less sense to delay this campaign, when next-gen will be the talk of the town and the focus of every gamer's christmas list.

The rumour is that Sony will have a press release on Thursday in which the pricing, pre-orders, and the release of the PS5 will be unveiled, and then the public will know what to save up and how to go about in planning their purchases.

I'm sorry if my posts seem attacking in nature in this thread, I just don't understand the mindset of the programmers and marketing departments...
 

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Why not advertise it now??
I'm guessing because it's early access atm - save the marketing budget for when there's physical copies in stores.
Releasing it early access will probably turn out to be a bad move because, even if they do improve vastly before full release, the bad reviews are already out there.
 

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I'm guessing because it's early access atm - save the marketing budget for when there's physical copies in stores.
Releasing it early access will probably turn out to be a bad move because, even if they do improve vastly before full release, the bad reviews are already out there.

The bad reviews were there even before launch. This game had a bad rep because of the repeated delays of release (nearly a whole year), plus all the other remarks made.

Even with this early access, they could have made more of an effort into marketing it, it just appears lazy at the moment, and then waiting until number 99 to do something... And then it's all in vain.
 

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The reason why people are mentioning these games you listed above (mostly FIFA and Madden), is because they continuously improve their games, and continuously sell the product to the masses. I know Rugby might not have such a big following as these sports have, and the funding does play a major role, I get that. The suggestion was that EA has the models already in place, and they can use these models as a basis to work from, and take it from there. By saying this, a Company like EA, can save a lot of money.

Without turning this post into a pages of rant, Madden has become so shockingly poor. Gameplay-wise it's worse than Madden 08, and much much worse than 2K's All Pro Football 2k8. I mean, the games look good mostly, but they've stripped out all the depth from franchise mode and replaced it with loot boxes. The same problems from Madden 08 are STILL THERE (blocking logic and defensive positioning being the worst, compensated for by suck-in animations), they stripped out all the of the physics elements, and they keep taking features out and adding them back in 5 years later so they can market this "AWSUM NEW FEATURE" before dropping it the next year. I hear FIFA's kinda similar but don't have first hand experience.

BTW this isn't hyperbole and I rarely experience nostalgia. I'd be annoyed if Madden had done the bare minimum in adding new features each year, but they've subtracted far more from the football simulation world than they've added in the last 10 years and it's such a cynical approach to making games.

I don't expect a return to the golden years of sports gaming (basically the 2000s up until the financial crash), but I do appreciate when teams genuinely try to improve their games year on year, despite budgets or team size. And yeah, Rugby is a hard game to recreate well, especially when the ideal (at least in my head) would be heavily physics based gameplay and pretty complex player behaviour. Not impossible but yeah, it'd be a labour of love and require patience. And cash.
 

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But that's the problem here. Why not advertise it now?? People have the time now to play because of this pandemic and lockdown enforcements by government

By Christmas everyone will be on the next-gen console parade and trying to buy/pre-order PS5 or the new Xbox and it's games.

With the lack of live sport now also on tv, many guys revert to playing sports games, just to fill the void. It just doesn't make any sense to delay the marketing campaign for a game that is already out and for sale. It makes even less sense to delay this campaign, when next-gen will be the talk of the town and the focus of every gamer's christmas list.

The rumour is that Sony will have a press release on Thursday in which the pricing, pre-orders, and the release of the PS5 will be unveiled, and then the public will know what to save up and how to go about in planning their purchases.

I'm sorry if my posts seem attacking in nature in this thread, I just don't understand the mindset of the programmers and marketing departments...

Programmers don't have any real say in this. Tru Blu are the reason the game is getting no advertising. They've always been terrible with marketing. My guess is they're waiting for a few patches to be out before they really start banging the drum.
 

nik

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Programmers don't have any real say in this. Tru Blu are the reason the game is getting no advertising. They've always been terrible with marketing. My guess is they're waiting for a few patches to be out before they really start banging the drum.

Agree, actually I believe we wouldn't even see an 'early access' if it wasn't for Wicked Witch taking the initiative.
TruBlu are not involved in the early access, you can tell by the 'cover art' which is made up animation of players in game rather than actual player photos.
 

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this is an interesting read, have no real input as well out of my area of expertise other than i would chip into the kickstarter for a Rugby Game...but probably not much more than the cost of a normal game
 

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this is an interesting read, have no real input as well out of my area of expertise other than i would chip into the kickstarter for a Rugby Game...but probably not much more than the cost of a normal game

I think the biggest issue is to get a real developer to take notice from a kickstarter campaign money would have to be big already.

People like @TRF_heineken think the market for the game is big enough which I would almost agree with except for one glaring fact.

Boxing is a much more popular sport worldwide, the amount of money that changes hands for one big fight is more than the entire all blacks squad are paid for 5 years (even 10 years). yet we haven't had a boxing game since Fight Night Champion even though the demand is very much there.

I don't have the exact numbers but Fight Night Champion sold roughly 1.8 million copies. UFC 3 only sold a little over 1 million copies.

The fans are there but the demand unfortunately is not even though we seem to think it is. I would love for someone to find a reputable source for how many copies Rugby 08 shipped so we can gauge the interest.

Unfortunately for people like myself and Heineken the demand isn't there like we think or wish it was. At least not for a major company to pick it up. And even with a kickstarter could we raise enough for a major company to take the risk? Because even if we did it "in house" so to speak would that game be better than what we already have? or would it simply be another dumpster fire we defend because we put our own money and effort into it?
 

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Why is RC4 trash? I haven't got the early access yet waiting on the physical and retail copy of it before purchasing it.

But it's making me think twice now of not buying it because of it's negative reviews and seems to be just an updated RC3 with the skins, updated kits.
 

Woldog

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Why is RC4 trash? I haven't got the early access yet waiting on the physical and retail copy of it before purchasing it.

But it's making me think twice now of not buying it because of it's negative reviews and seems to be just an updated RC3 with the skins, updated kits.

It's not trash but people had expectations too high.
 

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I think the biggest issue is to get a real developer to take notice from a kickstarter campaign money would have to be big already.

People like @TRF_heineken think the market for the game is big enough which I would almost agree with except for one glaring fact.

Boxing is a much more popular sport worldwide, the amount of money that changes hands for one big fight is more than the entire all blacks squad are paid for 5 years (even 10 years). yet we haven't had a boxing game since Fight Night Champion even though the demand is very much there.

I don't have the exact numbers but Fight Night Champion sold roughly 1.8 million copies. UFC 3 only sold a little over 1 million copies.

The fans are there but the demand unfortunately is not even though we seem to think it is. I would love for someone to find a reputable source for how many copies Rugby 08 shipped so we can gauge the interest.

Unfortunately for people like myself and Heineken the demand isn't there like we think or wish it was. At least not for a major company to pick it up. And even with a kickstarter could we raise enough for a major company to take the risk? Because even if we did it "in house" so to speak would that game be better than what we already have? or would it simply be another dumpster fire we defend because we put our own money and effort into it?

I think we have to take regions into consideration as well.

Fight Night Champions isn't available in South Africa, and the only way a South African can get is if they pay more than double it's worth to get it shipped from the UK or USA.

In the past we've also had the issues with PAL and NTSC, and the african region was PAL only.

I get what you are saying about advertising. But I guess I'm overestimating the power of collective voices on social media. To share a post is one of the fastest ways to get an audience, even if they don't buy immediately, it allows them to like your page, and stay interested and also see what is happening.
 

nik

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Why is RC4 trash? I haven't got the early access yet waiting on the physical and retail copy of it before purchasing it.

But it's making me think twice now of not buying it because of it's negative reviews and seems to be just an updated RC3 with the skins, updated kits.

I had been absent from rugby gaming for a number of years so I never really played Rugby Challenge 3. I had RC1 and RC2 on PS3 and PC respectively. RLL2 also on PS3.
Being in lockdown I got myself a PS4 and RC4 as well. I am quite enjoying it - yes it looks similar to RC1 but it plays better now as far as I can recall (almost 10 years ago).
The default settings with RC4 made the gameplay a bit frustrating, but the last few days I have been modifying the sliders and the game play has become a lot more fun.
I believe the licensing has gone backwards from RC3. I understand the frustrations of people but we are always comparing Rugby games to Madden/FIFA which is a bit unfair. We should also note that EA Rugby 05-08 were built on FIFA engines after the disaster of EA Rugby 2004. Once EA left the game I presume HB studios could not use the FIFA engines hence the Rugby games did not develop over the years - 1 step forward 2 steps backwards.

The developers Wicked Witch have released 2-3 patches already for AFL Evo2 game, it originally released in April. Let's hope they do the same continual improvement for RC4.
 

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A well-run company with a pr team or even just an exploited PR person on a starting salary can drum up anticipation and excitement for the game on Social media. Heck the developers could do it even but let them concentrate on the game.
The PR person can basically for free (apart from his internal salary) post on social media, be funny gain a following for the page, respond to the community in a direct informal way. Send PR articles to gaming websites, and traditional media so that your game is "featured" for free as you make the media think there is a scope for news there, they can even ride Popular culture opinions on social media to become trending and gain followers, Even the smallest of companies can find tremendous marketing success with a smart PR person, capable of gauging public option and trends. Its not that hard, if they give me admin access to the social media channels of Rugby Challenge 4 then I will work wonders with their online presence in a matter of weeks.

You can create, newsletters and tease the public with in-game player ratings e.g Farrel has 90 tacklings, 90 indiscipline, AWJ has 95 leadership. Kolbe has 95 Stepping. Build up the highest-rated players announcements much like Fifa does on you social media platforms. Try and collaborate with popular social media channels to feature your page in exchange for something with little to no financial value such as mutual exposure or credits.

You can think out narratives such as " we have a team of so many woman developers" or "We are trying to put rugby games on the map again by promoting green practises in our company while developing" Media jumps on this **** and its free.

And why not over hype the game. If it allows us to sell more copies and you make more money to improve the game actually instead of absorbing the money and not using it for further development.
Send editors and journalists of Tv stations and magazines in a country by country basis clips, images and a free copy of the game.

If you have a small marketing budget then Target the geographical areas with specific campaigns. set your demographical age targeting on social media, what areas you want to target, what income groups, what age.
If they run social media ads in SA, then feature pro Springbok ads, to 15 to 38 year old mostly men. In England target that age group but put special emphasis on the private schooling system, make funny targeted posts about Itjoje and Farrel, have a bit of banter and rip Wales or something.

In the Welsh,campaign climb on the AWJ bandwagon and rip Ireland or whoever the Welsh likes to rip, in an hour i can do enough research to find this out.

Try and entice legends of the game by sending them game footage of you recreating certain things they did in real life, maybe they share it to their thousands of followers.

I can continue with a full marketing and PR plan for these companies, its not that hard, you need to play the real-world game in this modern era. Also,a good PR person makes a lot of journalist buddies, and this can do very favourable things for your ratings...

I get that these small developers also need to make money, so can't just reinvest their profits back into development, and that's probably why small developers have not brought us the game we want since Rugby 08.
 
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welshglory

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I think the biggest issue is to get a real developer to take notice from a kickstarter campaign money would have to be big already.

People like @TRF_heineken think the market for the game is big enough which I would almost agree with except for one glaring fact.

Boxing is a much more popular sport worldwide, the amount of money that changes hands for one big fight is more than the entire all blacks squad are paid for 5 years (even 10 years). yet we haven't had a boxing game since Fight Night Champion even though the demand is very much there.

I don't have the exact numbers but Fight Night Champion sold roughly 1.8 million copies. UFC 3 only sold a little over 1 million copies.

The fans are there but the demand unfortunately is not even though we seem to think it is. I would love for someone to find a reputable source for how many copies Rugby 08 shipped so we can gauge the interest.

Unfortunately for people like myself and Heineken the demand isn't there like we think or wish it was. At least not for a major company to pick it up. And even with a kickstarter could we raise enough for a major company to take the risk? Because even if we did it "in house" so to speak would that game be better than what we already have? or would it simply be another dumpster fire we defend because we put our own money and effort into it?

The rugby union market does seem fairly large on the face of it, at least from the over inflated figures we hear from World Rugby and self flagellatory boasts like the 6 nations is the highest attended sports tournament in the world.

The rugby union market doesn’t even have a flagship club competition (In English speaking countries) which can compete with the NRL or AFL for viewership and youth engagement, never mind FIFA or Madden. Very much an old demographic who are largely participants and casual viewers. The only time rugby union comes alive is international season and the World Cup. It’s hard to engage young fans to be hardcore fans of international sport and they are largely the players of video games...
 

welshglory

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A well-run company with a pr team or even just an exploited PR person on a starting salary can drum up anticipation and excitement for the game on Social media. Heck the developers could do it even but let them concentrate on the game.
The PR person can basically for free (apart from his internal salary) post on social media, be funny gain a following for the page, respond to the community in a direct informal way. Send PR articles to gaming websites, and traditional media so that your game is "featured" for free as you make the media think there is a scope for news there, they can even ride Popular culture opinions on social media to become trending and gain followers, Even the smallest of companies can find tremendous marketing success with a smart PR person, capable of gauging public option and trends. Its not that hard, if they give me admin access to the social media channels of Rugby Challenge 4 then I will work wonders with their online presence in a matter of weeks.

You can create, newsletters and tease the public with in-game player ratings e.g Farrel has 90 tacklings, 90 indiscipline, AWJ has 95 leadership. Kolbe has 95 Stepping. Build up the highest-rated players announcements much like Fifa does on you social media platforms. Try and collaborate with popular social media channels to feature your page in exchange for something with little to no financial value such as mutual exposure or credits.

You can think out narratives such as " we have a team of so many woman developers" or "We are trying to put rugby games on the map again by promoting green practises in our company while developing" Media jumps on this **** and its free.

And why not over hype the game. If it allows us to sell more copies and you make more money to improve the game actually instead of absorbing the money and not using it for further development.
Send editors and journalists of Tv stations and magazines in a country by country basis clips, images and a free copy of the game.

If you have a small marketing budget then Target the geographical areas with specific campaigns. set your demographical age targeting on social media, what areas you want to target, what income groups, what age.
If they run social media ads in SA, then feature pro Springbok ads, to 15 to 38 year old mostly men. In England target that age group but put special emphasis on the private schooling system, make funny targeted posts about Itjoje and Farrel, have a bit of banter and rip Wales or something.

In the Welsh,campaign climb on the AWJ bandwagon and rip Ireland or whoever the Welsh likes to rip, in an hour i can do enough research to find this out.

Try and entice legends of the game by sending them game footage of you recreating certain things they did in real life, maybe they share it to their thousands of followers.

I can continue with a full marketing and PR plan for these companies, its not that hard, you need to play the real-world game in this modern era. Also,a good PR person makes a lot of journalist buddies, and this can do very favourable things for your ratings...

I get that these small developers also need to make money, so can't just reinvest their profits back into development, and that's probably why small developers have not brought us the game we want since Rugby 08.

I agree with what you are saying. Social media is king now and it’s cheap and easy to do. Jesus Christ have Tru Blu been terrible. Probably best to target casual rugby fans or even people who might have the slightest of interest though. Need to crack more into the mainstream. Would need different creatives for that, something more like viral videos for maximum engagement and shares.
 

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Social Media interaction is the easiest form of marketing, it can cost as little or as much as you want. The secret which not many companies do is use it to interact more with fans / potential fans. If they did more then it would drum up more interest.
 

Mario

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Social Media interaction is the easiest form of marketing, it can cost as little or as much as you want. The secret which not many companies do is use it to interact more with fans / potential fans. If they did more then it would drum up more interest.

It looks from the outside like an easy and cheap form of marketing, but Facebook for example limits the reach of any post you make to a fraction of your audience and makes you pay to reach more than that. You might have 1 million followers of a particular page, but you regular posts are only going to top out at reaching 10k of those users at best. It costs thousands of dollars to get a post to have wider distribution than that. Even then, to convert somebody from seeing a post to interacting with a post to then making a meaningful interaction like a pre-order or a purchase... you are then talking about a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the audience.

We now spend between US$100k-1m a month on Facebook alone in order to get the results we want, and that doesn't even include the cost of the people required to produce the content and manage the campaigns. It's not the "free" marketing channel general users think it is.
 

nik

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TruBlu the license owner for RC games needs to request licensees to help market the product. For example get the All Blacks twitter account to retweet or preferably a personalized message regarding the game. If the Wallabies, Springboks, English rugby sent their tweets regarding the game which they given license then the audience is far reaching then any marketing TruBlu has done.
I remember the 2003 RWC they had simulations of EA Rugby 2004 (may have been from broadcaster rather than WR themselves).
 
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