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World XV 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Sep 8 2009, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I forgot about your passionate dislike for Tommy Bowe GG, where were you during the Lions tour?

15. Kearney
14. Pietersen
13. O'Driscoll (Player of the year)
12. Roberts
11. Habana
10. M.Steyn
9. Du Preez
8. ??
7. Brussouw
6. Elsom
5. Matfield
4. Botha
3. ??
2. Du Plessis
1. Jenkins

I think Murray and Flannery could well have have been in there if not for injuries, real lack of a standout 3 or 8.[/b]

I was in Peru. Caught the opening tour games on the internet then missed about a month in a communications black hole in the jungle. Mate woke me up hungover on my 2nd last morning 8am local time to catch the 3rd Test. Nicest thing he ever did.

Anyway, Bowe I know was the best winger in this year's 6N and had an excellent Lions tour. There's just something that wrankles about picking him in a World XV. He's not exactly a Caucau or a Williams is he? Besides, Pietersen is imo highly underrated.
 
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I wonder if Springbok rugby will die once Bakkies Botha and Victor Matfield leave... That combination is more solid than post All Bran feces. Makes me really worry... Anyway, Ginger's list is a winner for me...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 8 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
10. Carter
No real argument.[/b]

So getting injured in January and not returning until August is not a real argument?

Without question, he has not played enough to merit selection as the best 10 of 2009. Stephen Jones and Juan Martin Hernandez are the top two with Giteau and Contepomi as the next choices. My choice is based on leading his team to a win vs England when all senior backs were missing and his club play during 2009 which was with a group of largely poor backs. Since he left the team has dropped away sharpely. Contepomi was superb for Leinster but never played a test. He has without doubt, played better for often than Carter this year. Carter is an outstanding player but if we are to pick based on game time then he is certainly not near the top flyhalf of the year. Give him games between now and December and this should change but for now he should not even be considered. Similarly, is Rocky Elson to be considered? Well he played much more than Carter in the European season where he was clearly the best 6 and has played as often for Australia this year as Carter has for New Zealand. Surely this is, therefore a diferent scenario.

I am leaving out a number of Irish players for the share fact that they hardly ever played Magners League matches. Other players played more often and continued to do so at an elite level. Medard for instance played to the level of Kearney during the 6 Nations and Heineken Cup but also did so during the Top 14, unlike Kearney who, like most Irish players was rested.

15 Medard (Toulouse / France)
14 Nalaga (Clermont / Fiji)
13 O´Driscoll (Ireland)
12 Roberts (Wales)
11 Bowe (Ospreys / Ireland)
10 Hernandez (Sharks / Argentina)
9 Du Preez (Bulls / South Africa)
8 Parisse (SF / Italia)
7 Dusautoir (Toulouse / France)
6 Elsom (Leinster / Australia)
5 Matfield (Bulls / South Africa)
4 Nallet (MR Paris / France)
3 Murray (Northampton / England) - the hardest choice.*
2 du Plessis (Sharks / South Africa)
1 Woodcock (Blues / New Zealand)

* Smit certainly has not been the best. Choosing him is simply ignoring scrums. Others to consider are Vickery, Castrogiovaani, Mas and Scelzo. None have been as consistent but the choice is hard given injury. Without doubt loosehead prop has seen many better players this year. The Beast , Ayerza and Roncero have all been better than all players in the tighthead category.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Sep 8 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 8 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
10. Carter
No real argument.[/b]

So getting injured in January and not returning until August is not a real argument?

Without question, he has not played enough to merit selection as the best 10 of 2009. Stephen Jones and Juan Martin Hernandez are the top two with Giteau and Contepomi as the next choices. My choice is based on leading his team to a win vs England when all senior backs were missing and his club play during 2009 which was with a group of largely poor backs. Since he left the team has dropped away sharpely. Contepomi was superb for Leinster but never played a test. He has without doubt, played better for often than Carter this year. Carter is an outstanding player but if we are to pick based on game time then he is certainly not near the top flyhalf of the year. Give him games between now and December and this should change but for now he should not even be considered. Similarly, is Rocky Elson to be considered? Well he played much more than Carter in the European season where he was clearly the best 6 and has played as often for Australia this year as Carter has for New Zealand. Surely this is, therefore a diferent scenario.

I am leaving out a number of Irish players for the share fact that they hardly ever played Magners League matches. Other players played more often and continued to do so at an elite level. Medard for instance played to the level of Kearney during the 6 Nations and Heineken Cup but also did so during the Top 14, unlike Kearney who, like most Irish players was rested.

15 Medard (Toulouse / France)
14 Nalaga (Clermont / Fiji)
13 O´Driscoll (Ireland)
12 Roberts (Wales)
11 Bowe (Ospreys / Ireland)
10 Hernandez (Sharks / Argentina)
9 Du Preez (Bulls / South Africa)
8 Parisse (SF / Italia)
7 Dusautoir (Toulouse / France)
6 Elsom (Leinster / Australia)
5 Matfield (Bulls / South Africa)
4 Nallet (MR Paris / France)
3 Murray (Northampton / England) - the hardest choice.*
2 du Plessis (Sharks / South Africa) 1 Woodcock (Blues / New Zealand)

* Smit certainly has not been the best. Choosing him is simply ignoring scrums. Others to consider are Vickery, Castrogiovaani, Mas and Scelzo. None have been as consistent but the choice is hard given injury. Without doubt loosehead prop has seen many better players this year. The Beast , Ayerza and Roncero have all been better than all players in the tighthead category.
[/b][/quote]

Fair enough but I thought Medard had a fairly poor 6 Nations. I remember thinking before each match....today he'll rip 'em to shreds. And he didn't. I'd pick Delon Armitage ahead of Medard and I don't think Nallet had a great season eiter
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Sep 8 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Sep 8 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
10. Carter
No real argument.[/b]

So getting injured in January and not returning until August is not a real argument?

[/b][/quote]

It's like saying Jesus wasn't the best prophet of 0AD because he spent 3 days being dead.
 
I don't wish to be pedantic, but it was probably c.32AD.
Jebediah was Prophet of the Year 0AD.
 
Whenever it was that Jesus grew a beard, Carter cannot possibly be called the best 10 of 2009 because he's done absolutely nothing.
 
I agree with Mite, Morne Steyn has been the best 10 this year. He has already scored 100 points in International rugby this season.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Sep 8 2009, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Whenever it was that Jesus grew a beard, Carter cannot possibly be called the best 10 of 2009 because he's done absolutely nothing.[/b]

Yes, if you were picking a team based on achievements in 2009. However, my team is the best 15 players in the world at the moment for the forthcoming fixture vs. Mars.

I mean, on that rationality Andy Goode has done more than Carter this year.
 
Quite. I would agree whole heartedly that Carter is the most talented player in the world, but as the thread is ***led; World XV 2009.

So yes, Goode has achieved more this year then Carter.
 
15). Lee Byrne/Rob Kearney (Either Way.)
14). Tommy Bowe
13). Brian O'Driscoll
12). Jamie Roberts
11). Bryan Habana (Damn Shaney's form...)
10). Dan Carter (Same as 15, but with Jones and Giteau)
9). Mike Phillips (Probaly)
8). Parisse
7). Martyn Williams
6). Brussow
5). Victor Matfield
4). O'Connel (I've deliberatly left Botha out, because I can't stand the guy.)
3). Adam Jones (Deliberatly put in, because I love the guy.)
2). ???
1). Gethin Jenkins

Almost had Alun Wyn Jones in at 4, although I changed my mind when considering whether I'd put too many Welshies in.
 
It clearly has to be Steyn and Du Preez at halfback, no one has come close to putting in a performance like Steyn did against the All Blacks.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Sep 8 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
15). Lee Byrne/Rob Kearney (Either Way.)
14). Tommy Bowe
13). Brian O'Driscoll
12). Jamie Roberts
11). Bryan Habana (Damn Shaney's form...)
10). Dan Carter (Same as 15, but with Jones and Giteau)
9). Mike Phillips (Probaly)
8). Parisse
7). Martyn Williams
6). Brussow
5). Victor Matfield
4). O'Connel (I've deliberatly left Botha out, because I can't stand the guy.)
3). Adam Jones (Deliberatly put in, because I love the guy.)
2). ???
1). Gethin Jenkins

Almost had Alun Wyn Jones in at 4, although I changed my mind when considering whether I'd put too many Welshies in.[/b]

Isn't Brussow a 7 (or at least he is outside SA)?
Mine:
15. Rob Kearney (IRE)/Lee Byrne (WAL) (Kearney probably edges it because Byrne was injured a lot)
14. Tommy Bowe (IRE)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (IRE)
12. Jamie Roberts (WAL)/Matt Giteau (AUS) (Roberts probably edges this because him and O'Driscoll were incredably effective)
11. Bryan Habana (SA)
10.Morne Steyn (SA)/Matt Giteau (AUS) (Carters been injured too much to really shine enough imo)
9. Fourie du Preez (SA)/ Mike Phillips (WAL)
8. Sergio Parrise (ITA)/ Pierre Spies (SA)
7. Heinrich Brussow (SA)
6. Rocky Elsom (AUS)
5. Victor Matfiels (SA)
4. Bakkies Botha (SA)
3. Adam Jones (WAL)
2. Dunno, possibly Du Plessis (SA)
1. Tony Woodcock (NZ)/ Gethin Jenkins (WAL)
 

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