Worst three players to lose from your Squad for the RWC.

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by scotty507, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Again, I don't know why I'm continuing with this, the bolded is just flat out wrong. Furlong probably should have been world player of the year last year, was the obvious Lion test starter the year before, has been one of Leinster's two best and most consistent forwards in the last two years when they came one game away from a double double... And you're saying that a guy who hasn't achieved anything as a starter for club or country is better, it's a hard sell.

    Sinckler having good hands, and playing 10 throughout school for whatever that's worth, still doesn't match Furlong, it's not uncommon to see Furlong throw a double skip pass to exploit an overlap, his tip on and pull back passes are pretty flawless and he has draw and pass skills that plenty of centres of would love to have.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/murray_kinsella/status/1051027258880782338

    Sinckler is a good player, and you're probably right that he's more consistent than Furlong but that's mostly because those world class performances from Furlong are such outliers that they couldn't possibly be maintained every week.

    Now, I don't think there's much point continuing this, I probably rate Sinckler nearly as highly as you do, he'd comfortably be my 18 in a World XV. It's just that you have an outrageously low opinion of Furlong, saying Laulala or Tu'ungafisi (or the other NZ TH, none of them are very impressive) have arguments as the better player really undermined the argument from the start.
     
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  3. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Mako is comfortably the best loosehead in the England squad. His scrummaging issues are largely exaggerated and in loose play, both defensively and with ball in hand, no one on the planet comes close to him.
     
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  4. noah_jo

    noah_jo First XV

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    Yeah ok, tbh I'd still start Furlong at 3 and Sinks at 18 purely because he has a big impact coming on (like England did with Cole) but I just don't have the same view on him as you which is fair enough
     
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  5. rugga658

    rugga658 Academy Player

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    FOH

    Mako along with his little bro & Farrell are England's best and most valuable players
     
  6. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Nah, Marler is better.
    Much better scrummager (which is numero uno for a prop) and still very very good around the park.
    Would rather my props be dominant in the scrum before they're like an extra flyhalf.

    Valuing secondary skills over core responsibilities is what ****** over England's backrow for the last 10+ years.
     
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  7. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Again, Mako's scrummaging is massively underrated. If he was getting dominated in scrums I'd agree with you, but since he's more than capable of holding his own at international level, I think that what he offers in open play makes up for any perceived weakness at scrum time.

    I also think you're over-stating Marler's ability. He's a good player but he has his flaws at scrum time as well; he has a real issue with boring in. I also think that saying he's "very very good around the park" is pure hyperbole. He's a more dominant hitter than Mako but he doesn't make anywhere near as many tackles. He's also a far less dominant ball carrier and he has little/no handling ability.
     
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  8. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I don't really think so, Sinckler probably has a few more flashy highlight reel moments and might literally have a more skillful set of hands but I'd immediately point to Furlong's ability to carry the ball in two hands and pass just before contact or out of it as being better than nearly any front five forward out there; and he doesn't lack for skill anywhere else with very strong catch and pass skills.

    Maybe it doesn't purely fall under the umbrella of handling but I do think Furlong is getting more out of his passing game with other skills complimenting it than Sinks is getting out of his.
     
  9. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    My take's always been that Binny's a world class carrier, not a world class no8. He was overly important to Eng while we had little go forward, but that's no longer the case.

    The whole first choice front row's powerful and comfortable with ball in hand and Itoje's improving. Manu's now back and there's also Joe. That's enough blasters for anyone. In differing ways Underhill and Curry both contribute go forward too.

    Obviously if Plan A is to just blow the bloody doors off then Binny's a key part. But if we lost him there are others to share the carrying mantle, albeit the game plan would have to change.

    If Binny's carrying isn't quite so crucial then you look more at his all round contribution and while admitting he doesn't have a particular "trick" that's likely to change a match I'd say Wilson is a better all rounder plus he increases our line out options (sorry Olyy!).

    Binny will still be influential and our first choice 8, but I actually think Underhill and Curry are more important to the cause.
     
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  10. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    While I agree to an extent, I don't think you're looking deep enough with the idea that we have enough carriers. Sure, Mako, George and Sinckler are all very good with ball in hand, but what about after 60 minutes? Suddenly you're looking at Marler, LCD and Cole who don't carry nearly as much ballast. Similarly, Joe isn't a nailed on starter, and even if he does start, he's not all that likely to finish a game. Considering Mako and Tuilagi's injury records, it really wouldn't take much for us to be finishing off games with a team looking like: Daly, Watson, Joseph, Farrell, May, Ford, Heinz, Vunipola, Underhill/Curry, Wilson, Lawes, Itoje, Cole, LCD, Marler. Take Vunipola out of that equation and suddenly you're really struggling. I'd say that Binny is arguably the most integral part of this England side.
     
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  11. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

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    For nz
    Savea
    Moody
    Whitelock

    Savea because he is our point of difference, the world class player who can win a game we are otherwise not going to win. By contrast if cane gets injured you can put Todd there and haven’t lost much (though I am a huge cane fan, Todd offers similar attributes). If you lose read you can play savea at 8, who would do a bette job, and use luke or barret at 6; you would definitely lose a bit in total but the replacements are pretty good.

    Moody is the obvious one. I’m quite shocked @Larksea and @bobby_m didn’t pick this one. Moli and ofa as a loosehead are a long way behind moody; but also because we don’t have franks we kinda need the experience of moody for when the opposition uses all their experience against us. While laulala is an excellent scrummager, in terms of pure talent, he doesn’t have the experience against different techniques and tactics like franks does.

    And whitelock. At this stage Brodie is already injured until the quarterfinal at least, and then won’t have match fitness, and already hasn’t been in top form as late. Whitelock s ruck clearances and Linout work as well as leadership will be vital, particularly in the mix we have chosen with a relatively small 6 who isn’t the best line out forward.

    When Ireland beat the all blacks Ardie savea was the best on the park, followed by furlong and healy then the rest of the Irish team. But furlong and Healy in particular made the difference, as they were just so much better than their New Zealand propping counterparts. So much so that franks hasn’t made it to the World Cup.
     
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  12. bushytop

    bushytop First XV

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    Yeah they’re both great players and would both challenge for World XV starting spots when on song.
     
  13. scotty507

    scotty507 First XV

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    At Scrummaging mako isnt getting domminated at all yet he has such a high workrate in both attack and defence and good handling ability that it just sets him above Marler IMO. A modern prop is no longer a slow lump who can scrammage well but is otherwise quite unskilled. To cut it at the top level they need to have other skills. Marler is an international level prop but lacks some of the extra skills that put mako ahead as first choice.
     
  14. bushytop

    bushytop First XV

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    Well, not that he would be one of the three I’d least like to lose from the squad but apparently Cory Hill has a small fracture in his leg and is touch and go for selection (the fact selection is even still an option suggests how small this fracture is).
     
  15. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Losing a player of his calibre would be a massive loss, he's a British and Irish Lion!
     
  16. bushytop

    bushytop First XV

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    He was that (for better or worse) but while he got ragged on a lot at the time (& was probably the poster-boy for the Geography-6 hate campaign) he has been very good in the two years since and would be a big loss.
     
  17. Jockstap

    Jockstap First XV

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    Already lost one in Dan Leavy but from the current squad

    Jame Ryan
    Gary Ringrose
    Johnny Sexton
     
  18. Aristodemus

    Aristodemus Bench Player

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    For me I would pick....

    Binny
    Manu
    George.

    I also agree that Mako isn't a loss at all for us, I would pick Marler ahead of him if both were fit. Losing Sinks wouldn't be good but the three I picked would be worse imo.
     
  19. Reiser99

    Reiser99 First XV

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    It's close, but I would say...

    George (drop off is huge)
    Manu (big powerful runs like Billy, but draws more defenders and opens up gaps. His presence just creating space is what we've missed most.)
    Curry (yes he's young, but he's shown the impact a genuine no.7 and balanced back row can have. He's also getting to the point where he's a confident regular and works well in the team as a whole.)
     
  20. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Hall of Fame

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    Manu
    Manu
    Manu
     
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  21. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, nah.
     
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