English summer rugby

[TRF_Olyy]

I wasn't seriously suggesting Cippers It was just a throw back to the lions thread where I was photoshopping inappropriate players into the kit.
Having said that: if we were playing tomorrow and had to pick between Ford and Danny...

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[Patchey]

Unfortunately, I think we'd need a smarter 13 to play that game - it's a shame neither Twelvetrees or Eastmond plays there.

As ever Peat, you've rugby knowledge is head and shoulder above mine. I would like to point out one thing though, that is that there are currently two English thirteens who fit the bill:





(Daly, not van Gisbergen)

Unfortunaly both are currently out of the EPS (although Lancaster has, I believe, spoken to both of them about what they need to do to get into the set up) and playing their club rugby at fullback. In Tait's case this is because, like at England, Tuilagi has a lock on the thirteen shirt. In Daly's case it seems to be that Wasps realised that an out of position centre was still a better fullback than Hugo Southwell...

 

[Peat]

Ironically, both Twelvetrees and Eastmond could play 13. Twelvetrees has, and I feel fairly sure Eastmond could if he hasn't.

Tait and Daly could also prosper there although I prefer them in the back-three to be honest. Daly in particular I think could be our version of Halfpenny, only better.

George Lowe would be another interesting alternative if he ever recovers his form. Lots of guys who could, but unfortunately, nobody who's actually doing it...

 

[ratsapprentice]

Tait is basically locked down as a FB now that Geordan Murphy has retired. There's no point in thinking of him as anything else...

Lots of guys who could, but unfortunately, nobody who's actually doing it...

...as ever.

 

[Patchey]

Tait and Daly could also prosper there although I prefer them in the back-three to be honest. Daly in particular I think could be our version of Halfpenny, only better.

Shhhhh don't let the Welshmen hear you say that.

I'm hoping Daly gets at least a run out in the Autumn (not holding my breath though). I don't see what more he can do to warrant being given a chance.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't see what more he can do to warrant being given a chance.

Move to Saracens

 

[Patchey]

Move to Saracens

 

[ratsapprentice]

Move to Saracens

 

[TRF_Olyy]

View attachment 2408

Exactly: He's consistently sub-par at international level yet is (was?) Englands first choice fullback due to playing for Saracens

 

[Peat]

Exactly: He's consistently sub-par at international level yet is (was?) Englands first choice fullback due to playing for Saracens

Speaking of which, apparently there's an article in the Times in which David Strettle talks about how he'd like an EPS place and to play for England in a home World Cup.

Wouldn't we all.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Was Strettle actually as exciting as I remember him being before he got injured at Quins?

 

[psychic duck]

I thought Strettle was really promising in his first couple of years of international rugby in 2007 and 2008. More recently however, he has turned into a decent but relatively limited winger who got a recall due to playing for Saracens. He isn't a bad player at all, but England have so many good wingers it seems he is lucky that he is still in and around the team now aged 30.

Saracens are known as one of the less able sides attacking wise, yet nearly all their backs get a free pass into the EPS squad. Wigglesworth, Farrell, Strettle, Barritt, Tomkins, Ashton and Goode. That's their entire backline in the England squad. Apart from Ashton (who was good before 2012), none of them got call ups until a failed Rugby League convert became coach. And to be honest, there are better options than all of those players for England. I think there is a fair look of bias towards Saracens of late from the England coaches, especially in the backs.

 

[Peat]

Ahh, being fair, people wanted Barritt and Goode in at one point. And Ashton was once very good, and may be again if the team learns how to attack again. No one likes the 2011 team, but we've gone a long way backwards since that Six Nations imo. And the bias makes more sense when you consider how they've plumped for safety first so far. But yeah, seems very difficult to argue there's no bias there.

And Strettle being exciting sorta falls into the Stone Age for me.

 

[psychic duck]

Ahh, being fair, people wanted Barritt and Goode in at one point. And Ashton was once very good, and may be again if the team learns how to attack again. No one likes the 2011 team, but we've gone a long way backwards since that Six Nations imo. And the bias makes more sense when you consider how they've plumped for safety first so far. But yeah, seems very difficult to argue there's no bias there.

And Strettle being exciting sorta falls into the Stone Age for me.

The team that won England their only 6N title over the past 10 years?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The team that won England their only 6N title over the past 10 years?

So? We're supposed to ignore the likes of a Hape/Banahan midfield because they were slightly more successful than other years?

 

[Peat]

The team that won England their only 6N title over the past 10 years?

Yup. A lot of people seem to get rather revisionist about the period because of the World Cup and ignore it's good work, which I find somewhat mad tbh.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Agree that all those players originally earned a chance to play regardless of any bias.
Especially since Ashton was in extremely good form and with Northampton at the time.

 

[Peat]

So? We're supposed to ignore the likes of a Hape/Banahan midfield because they were slightly more successful than other years?

One game only! Plus, any team that can win a Six Nations with a Hape/Tindall midfield is clearly amazeballs. Although, no word of a lie, I'd have Hape ahead of Barritt now. I ain't even kiddin'. I would post my blog article in explanation, but it won't let me publish... maybe I'll just c&p the article into here.

Also, Sun reckons Tom Wood is going to be captain, which I think is dubious stuff.

 

[psychic duck]

So? We're supposed to ignore the likes of a Hape/Banahan midfield because they were slightly more successful than other years?

Unsurprisingly the match that muck combination played was the one where they got tanked by Ireland.

Peat is right, people forget that England played well in 2010/2011 until it fell apart. Flood was making nice half breaks and then offloading to a supporting Ashton who was scoring loads back then. A 6 Nations title and home and away wins over Australia (more than Wales have had in the entirety of Gatland's reign btw), yet after a GS lost and a poor RWC (where England did actually go through their pool unbeaten despite playing poorly).

That England team despite a dour midfield scored more tries in that 2011 6 Nations than Lancaster and his Saracens inspired backline has scored in the last two tournaments combined which suffered the mild embarrassment of not being able to score any tries against the worst travelling international side. Will be interesting to see if the coaches stick with the more promising backline that played in Argentina.

 

[Peat]

People call it a dour midfield, with reason, but compared to now... Barritt made 19 metres in his three Six Nations starts at 12 this year. Hape made 22 or more in four of his Six Nations starts at 12. Huge difference.

It's really weird to think that Youngs and Flood have started a grand total of three England games together after that Six Nations where they carved it up together, just like they do week in week out. One was against Georgia and no one cares. Another was the most recent home international against South Africa, where Flood went off injured really early. Then you get the 36-27 loss to South Africa last summer, which doesn't sound too impressive until you consider that's our highest score against the SH away from home since 2000 and they didn't have too much to do with the 16 missed tackles in the pack which probably accounts for the 36 points we conceded. Youngs + Flood = Points. Yet no one seems to want to run with this. Although it helped we had someone other than Barritt at 12 too.

Instead we have Youngs, but seemingly conditioned not to run (he runs the ball half as much as he did in 2011) and Farrell, who can't buy a line break. No wonder we don't score too many points.