[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Italy vs. New Zealand (12/11/2016)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Stadio Olimpico
Time: 16:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

Teams

Italy: 15 Edoardo Padovani, 14 Giulio Bisegni, 13 Tommaso Benvenuti, 12 Luke McLean, 11 Angelo Esposito, 10 Carlo Canna, 9 Giorgio Bronzini, 8 Sergio Parisse (c), 7 Simone Favaro, 6 Maxime Mbanda, 5 Andries Van Schalkwyk, 4 Marco Fuser, 3 Lorenzo Cittadini, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Andrea Lovotti

Replacements: 16 Ornel Gega, 17 Sami Panico, 18 Pietro Ceccarelli, 19 George Biagi, 20 Francesco Minto, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Tommaso Boni

New Zealand: 15 Damian McKenzie, 14 Israel Dagg, 13 Malakai Fekitoa, 12 Anton Lienert-Brown, 11 Waisake Naholo, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 8 Steven Luatua, 7 Sam Cane (captain), 6 Elliot Dixon, 5 Scott Barrett, 4 Patrick Tuipulotu, 3 Charlie Faumuina, 2 Codie Taylor, 1 Wyatt Crockett

Substitutes: 16 Liam Coltman, 17 Joe Moody, 18 Ofa Tu'ungafasi, 19 Brodie Retallick, 20 Matt Todd, 21 Aaron Smith, 22 Lima Sopoaga, 23 Rieko Ioane

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Two losses on the bounce for the ABs?

After a lifetime of supporting Scotland at football and Italy at rugby I know all about handling rubbish results. But never have I been filled with so much dread as with this game. Not the worst Italian side by any stretch of the imagination but very limited and I'd take Brunel over OShea as coach. Fitness still seems a huge issue for the Italian clubs and I can see NZ putting up 30+ points in the last twenty minutes alone. I'll accept anything short of complete humiliation against a NZ who will be keen to make a statement. Something like losing 60-10 and pretending this never happened. Why did the FIR accept this fixture?

 

[AzaMatt]

most obvious outcome of all the internationals. italy by 20

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

$$$ Bruce!

I feel bad for Conor O'Shea, this is like starting school after your older brother leaves leaving the kids he used to bully behind seeking you out for revenge!

 

[AzaMatt]

$$$ Bruce!

I feel bad for Conor O'Shea, this is like starting school after your older brother leaves leaving the kids he used to bully behind seeking you out for revenge!

and those bullies were prevented from general bully-ing last weekend but they have been told that this weekend they can bully without consequence

 

[Brigantine]

I hope they had the foresight to prepare an extra wide scoreboard.

I can't believe New Zealand is only on this table twice.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Jeez guys. You are meant to hold me close, make soft cooing noises and tell me Italy will lose by less than fifty!

 

[AzaMatt]

I hope they had the foresight to prepare an extra wide scoreboard.

I can't believe New Zealand is only on this table twice.

probably because they select weaker sides for games against tier 2 nations. although NZ 3rd or 4th string would give most international sides trouble.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Jeez guys. You are meant to hold me close, make soft cooing noises and tell me Italy will lose by less than fifty!

Italy will lead after 8 minutes, I promise.

 

[welshglory]

You don't get better unless you play the best. Italy needs these type of fixtures (Just like Georgia needs to play against T1!).

I like the noise O'Shea's made about improving the fundamentals of the Italian side. Strong defence, dominant set piece, better fitness. Jacques Brunel seemed to move too much in the direction of playing an expansive game without getting those right, same with Nick Mallet. O'Shea's experience of working in the RFU developmental/academy system should give a better idea of what he needs from potential players at this level.

I'm hoping they can show some potential and at least put up a fight.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

You don't get better unless you play the best. Italy needs these type of fixtures (Just like Georgia needs to play against T1!).

I think you learn playing a team maybe 5-10 points above you in the rankings. Maybe even 15. But playing a team ranked 23 points above you the only thing you learn is how to kick restarts and dishearten your fans. I am clinging to Italy somehow competing in Argentina earlier in the year. And Alpha Pro's prediction.

 

[smartcooky]

I think you learn playing a team maybe 5-10 points above you in the rankings. Maybe even 15. But playing a team ranked 23 points above you the only thing you learn is how to kick restarts and dishearten your fans. I am clinging to Italy somehow competing in Argentina earlier in the year. And Alpha Pro's prediction.

And tackling. You get a lot of tackling practice.

 

[Every Time Ref]

You get a chance to see Parisse at his one-man-against-the-world best. Like King Canute if the sea had actually done what it was told - but only exactly where he was standing, everywhere else around him overrun by black water, thus making his own square of dry sand pretty much pointless except as an interesting curiosity for any observers.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

You get a chance to see Parisse at his one-man-against-the-world best. Like King Canute if the sea had actually done what it was told - but only exactly where he was standing, everywhere else around him overrun by black water, thus making his own square of dry sand pretty much pointless except as an interesting curiosity for any observers.

That was a beautiful simile

 

[Brigantine]

I think you learn playing a team maybe 5-10 points above you in the rankings. Maybe even 15. But playing a team ranked 23 points above you the only thing you learn is how to kick restarts and dishearten your fans. I am clinging to Italy somehow competing in Argentina earlier in the year. And Alpha Pro's prediction.

Yeah, that's quite a gap. The same as the gap between Italy and... Zimbabwe. (who are playing Russia this weekend)

If it wasn't for Chicago, that would have read "Lithuania". (who are playing the Czech Republic this weekend - the winner becomes the favourite to make the SF for Europe 2)

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yeah, that's quite a gap. The same as the gap between Italy and... Zimbabwe. (who are playing Russia this weekend)

If it wasn't for Chicago, that would have read "Lithuania". (who are playing the Czech Republic this weekend - the winner becomes the favourite to make the SF for Europe 2)

Jesus Christ, I've played against Lithuanian internationals! That ain't no high standard, believe me!

 

[The Jones Boy]

If Aaron Smith plays our chances will disappear down the toilet.

 

[Makos]

I wish we had a tougher match, beating Italy isn't exactly satisfying after the weekends loss to Ireland. Nothing against the Italians.

If Aaron Smith plays our chances will disappear down the toilet.

:lol:

Behave!

This really should have been his target come back match after his off-field antics.

 

[Gavin]

I wish we had a tougher match, beating Italy isn't exactly satisfying after the weekends loss to Ireland. Nothing against the Italians

Everyone said New Zealand would win last weekend, even bookies had then 20+

The match isn't a foregone conclusion, remember the match when Italy were robbed a victory due to poor scrum officiating a few years back.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Everyone said New Zealand would win last weekend, even bookies had then 20+

The match isn't a foregone conclusion, remember the match when Italy were robbed a victory due to poor scrum officiating a few years back.

Yes, but I also remember when Italy had a full back, centres, locks and a front row!

 

[ncurd]

I hope they had the foresight to prepare an extra wide scoreboard.

I can't believe New Zealand is only on this table twice.

TBH that list is complete rubbish I'm entirely sure and of the teams beaten classify as 'teams'. Running up cricket scores against poor opposition is hardly something to brag about England V Romania in 2001 is the closest to a Tier 1 V Tier 2 match. The rest have even less worth.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Steady on old boy. It lists losses for RWC regulars Japan, Uruguay and Namibia as well as Romania. Hopefully Canada and Italy aren't added this weekend.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Italy side:

Italy: 15 Edoardo Padovani, 14 Giulio Bisegni, 13 Tommaso Benvenuti, 12 Luke McLean, 11 Angelo Esposito, 10 Carlo Canna, 9 Giorgio Bronzini, 8 Sergio Parisse (c), 7 Simone Favaro, 6 Maxime Mbanda, 5 Andries Van Schalkwyk, 4 Marco Fuser, 3 Lorenzo Cittadini, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Andrea Lovotti

Replacements: 16 Ornel Gega, 17 Sami Panico, 18 Pietro Ceccarelli, 19 George Biagi, 20 Francesco Minto, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Tommaso Boni

O'Shea so confident against a reeling All Blacks that he's playing second choice players and players out of position. Perfect time to get experimental!

So we have:
- fly half Padovani starting at fullback (why not Mclean, who actually has international experience at fullback - or Odiete (ditto)?)
- Bronzini at scrum half rather than Gori (mystified)
- terrible selection of backs with no Sarto (in form), Campagnaro, Venditti (in form), Odiete or in the squad (Campagnaro for all I know though could be injured).

The only backs I'd have picked are Canna and Benvenuti. I guess this gives O'Shea excuses when the inevitable happens, but surely busting a gut to avoid humiliation and cries of "kick them out of the Six Nations" would be any sane man's number one priority.

 

[nickdnz]

Everyone said New Zealand would win last weekend, even bookies had then 20+

The match isn't a foregone conclusion, remember the match when Italy were robbed a victory due to poor scrum officiating a few years back.

The one in 2009 on which the incorrect officiating actually went against the All Blacks and cost Dickinson his career, but Italy still lost by 20 or so. Hardly robbed. They weren't close.

 

[Makos]

Everyone said New Zealand would win last weekend, even bookies had then 20+

The match isn't a foregone conclusion, remember the match when Italy were robbed a victory due to poor scrum officiating a few years back.

That is some top quality trolling.

 

[Brigantine]

Italy side:

[...] he's playing second choice players and players out of position.

Is Italy having Japan Syndrome? First choice players making themselves unavailable?

Regardless, I'm worried about New Zealand's and Canada's chances. That we might be bowled out by 40 overs and that Ireland will keep batting for at least 80 and better our score.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Sarto and Venditti are both in the Pro12 so there should be no issue with their selection. Damn O'Shea for learning Italian so quickly, it makes it harder to pick up information from him in the media.

 

[TRF_heineken]

AB team has been announced and added to the OP

 

[The Jones Boy]

Thanks Heinie, much appreciated

- - - Updated - - -

So Fekitoa and Lienert Brown eh.... hmmmm....

 

[nik]

I imagine Cane will be subbed at some point. Who will take over as captain?

Probably would have preferred Sapoaga starting however given Cruden hasn't had much game time lately, it seems to be the right choice.

How this team gels will be interesting to see.

Hopefully it's doesn't turn into the messy game of 2009. That was an eyesore with poor handling.