[2015 Six Nations] England vs France (Round 5)

[msf]

I don't think he misses many tackles (I can't think of a recent one) or makes many unforced errors (he hardly ever knocks the ball on or is turned over), and tries conceded is a team stat, but he does blitz too often in defence, letting the opposition run down his wing. This wouldn't be shown in the stats, though, so I think it comes down to Lancaster's judgement rather than stats, which is worrying for those who don't trust Lancaster's judgement.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, if you're talking about unforced errors detracting from a good attacking game, how about Jack Nowell in the last game? He was either beating people, ignoring overlaps, or knocking the ball on...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Clarke is a 6 so is not in competition with kvesic and he still doesn't have a cap btw where as kvesic does.

So really this is the choices

6. Haskell, wood, Clarke, ewers
7. Robshaw, kvesic (although I bet if robshaw was injured Lancaster would move wood there)

I don't think robshaw would make a great 6 anymore considering the competition. He is a great leader but he is not a special player.

 

[valley commando]

Clarke is a 6 so is not in competition with kvesic and he still doesn't have a cap btw where as kvesic does.

So really this is the choices

6. Haskell, wood, Clarke, ewers
7. Robshaw, kvesic (although I bet if robshaw was injured Lancaster would move wood there)

I don't think robshaw would make a great 6 anymore considering the competition. He is a great leader but he is not a special player.

You need Morgan at 8, Gobshaw at 6 and Armitage 7.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think he misses many tackles (I can't think of a recent one) or makes many unforced errors (he hardly ever knocks the ball on or is turned over), and tries conceded is a team stat, but he does blitz too often in defence, letting the opposition run down his wing. This wouldn't be shown in the stats, though, so I think it comes down to Lancaster's judgement rather than stats, which is worrying for those who don't trust Lancaster's judgement.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, if you're talking about unforced errors detracting from a good attacking game, how about Jack Nowell in the last game? He was either beating people, ignoring overlaps, or knocking the ball on...

I'm talking dropping the ball behind your own tryline leading to the opposition scoring....on more than one occasion.
Not tripping over, like Nowell.

 

[msf]

Or knocking on, like Nowell? Or knocking the ball out for an scrum 5? Haha, Nowell actually managed to step a defender, ignore an overlap, trip up and knock the ball on all in one move last week.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, you didn't provide any evidence of missed tackles (I can think of one recently, against Gloucester against their back row when Wade was unbalanced (not his fault). And before someone brings up his aerial skills, they should watch him against Saracens 2 weeks ago.

 

[thechosenfamily]

Anyway, you didn't provide any evidence of missed tackles (I can think of one recently, against Gloucester against their back row when Wade was unbalanced (not his fault). And before someone brings up his aerial skills, they should watch him against Saracens 2 weeks ago.

He was outstanding!

 

[goodNumber10]

If Robshaw was selected over others based on stats in club games this year, the Champions Cup can't have counted for much: http://www.epcrugby.com/statistics/tournament.php

Yes, Robshaw missed a game, but so did Wood, and he was still in the top 3 line out winners. Clark would seem to have a good case for a start based on these stats, so perhaps this was important in his case but not in Robshaw's.

Perhaps, but i doubt they are using the EPC website stats.

more likely they are using club/opta gathered data paired with Video and GPS statistical data to analyse performance in ways we aren't privy to.

There will be things like Ruck Efficiency, Pos/Neg Tackle outcome stats (which is why dominant collision wont' eb so important) , carry effectivness, impact and risk assesment and a ton of other (management speak gobbeldy gook) things.

Then at the end of it they'll still go with their gut feeling

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

My main stress about this England side right now is our ability to adapt to a different sort of fly half in defence.

Having an aggressive tackler at 10 helps defences, simple as, and especially lazy forwards.
When your 10 is a bit more passive and cedes ground, as discussed, the defensive system has to adapt quicker and scramble back into place.
I think our defence has been a bit spoilt by having Farrell such a constant over the last few years. Now that teams can make more ground through the 10 channel our discipline doesn't seem good enough to not give away further penalties and we don't seem to get our structure back into place quite quick enough... bennett's try last saturday was a case in point really, we were just everywhere. ..

 

[goodNumber10]

sorry for the spam but look at how slow they are to get around the corner, it's awful.

Bennett's try is as much about Englands lack of reaction as it is Scotland's superb approach work:

Video:
[video=youtube_share;d6kfQwgG1tA]https://youtu.be/d6kfQwgG1tA[/video]

 

[LiRFCMatt]

England vs France - Preview http://fourballsblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/england-vs-france-preview.html

Preview up now, talking about the odds of England winning and how they can do it. Brief conclusion here:

"It will be a tough game no doubt, France rose against the English last 6 Nations which left the English 2nd on points difference to Ireland. It most definitely could happen again, but the Twickenham faithful will look to carry them home."

 

[Patchey]

sorry for the spam but look at how slow they are to get around the corner, it's awful.

Bennett's try is as much about Englands lack of reaction as it is Scotland's superb approach work:

Video:
[video=youtube_share;d6kfQwgG1tA]https://youtu.be/d6kfQwgG1tA[/video]

As ever, good analysis. But I'm more impressed by the way you hid your Wigan accent...

 

[msf]

Hmm, so you're more worried about GFs defence than the fact that the other players keep butchering the chances he and Youngs are creating? So you think we would be better off with a more limited, defensive game plan? Play Barritt and Farrell and (try) to shut up shop? I'm not saying it's the wrong strategy for this England team, but I definitely won't be watching that team play against Fiji and whoever the other second-rank nations in our group are.

 

[goodNumber10]

Hmm, so you're more worried about GFs defence than the fact that the other players keep butchering the chances he and Youngs are creating? So you think we would be better off with a more limited, defensive game plan? Play Barritt and Farrell and (try) to shut up shop? I'm not saying it's the wrong strategy for this England team, but I definitely won't be watching that team play against Fiji and whoever the other second-rank nations in our group are.

No, I don't actually. I think we should be getting the balance right though, even if that means hiding him away like other teams do (though that has it's own massive disadvantages).

The analysis is more about how Scotland break us down, and how England struggle when their 1st line is breached (like any other team do) but it's certainly a ploy to target Ford, how we mitigate against that exploitation is what matters.

if that makes sense.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Makes perfect sense to me gN10. IMO part of the problem with these discussions is when people look at a tackle from a statistical success / failure angle. Obviously a missed tackle is never good, but as your video illustrates, there's a massive difference between a stopping the attacking player on the gain line and allowing him to break it.

 

[TW27BA]

England nemesis last time out Steve Walsh retires with immediate effect!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31987835

Wonder who we'll get now? Surely a Saffa or SH ref with no interest in the outcome.

 

[Raggs]

Is it just me, or have Englands pack been a little lazy recently? No bite. In the example above no one was working their arse off to get around, apart from perhaps Robshaw.

It's something 36 offers in massive amounts, it's often a toss up between him, Robshaw and Launch as to who is shadowing a linebreak (ours or the opposition). Shame he can't cut out the mistakes.

 

[TW27BA]

England nemesis last time out Steve Walsh retires with immediate effect!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31987835

Wonder who we'll get now? Surely a Saffa or SH ref with no interest in the outcome.

Missed the other thread running..........apologies.

 

[TommiG88]

Off to the game tomorrow, hopefully I will see England lift the trophy.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

sorry for the spam but look at how slow they are to get around the corner, it's awful.

Bennett's try is as much about Englands lack of reaction as it is Scotland's superb approach work:

Video:
[video=youtube_share;d6kfQwgG1tA]https://youtu.be/d6kfQwgG1tA[/video]

I think more than anything, this shows the major weakness that comes with never challenging the breakdown. Not a single Scottish breakdown in that entire video was even remotely challenged. If you don't challenge the breakdown because you want to rush up in defense then you need to be set up, which England weren't. They were trying to use tactics that were completely inappropriate, when the opposing team are attacking too fast for your defense to set up, you NEED to slow the recycling. England never even attempted it, which is inexcusable. You have argued England don't have a specialist 7 because our defense doesn't require it, well we clearly did there.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think more than anything, this shows the major weakness that comes with never challenging the breakdown. Not a single Scottish breakdown in that entire video was even remotely challenged. If you don't challenge the breakdown because you want to rush up in defense then you need to be set up, which England weren't. They were trying to use tactics that were completely inappropriate, when the opposing team are attacking too fast for your defense to set up, you NEED to slow the recycling. England never even attempted it, which is inexcusable. You have argued England don't have a specialist 7 because our defense doesn't require it, well we clearly did there.

They don't challenge the break down because Scotland are playing at such a pace they don't have time to... a specialist 7 wouldn't shut that move down because he'd be at the bottom of the first ruck having just done Fords job for him - getting in on ball isn't how you shut a team playing at that pace down.

The way to shut that move down is to get around the corner quicker so the inside backs like Burrell don't have to fold in and can maintain their defensive width, you soak it up on the first wave and then make the Scots reload their attack pattern and come back the other way to a set England defence that'd now be getting off the line.

More than anything it illustrates the need to have someone defending at 10 who is going to meet the first strike.