[2015 TRC] Australia v South Africa in Brisbane (18/07/2015)

[TRF_heineken]

It's going to be interesting watching this match on tv and seeing how he performs.

Yes.. that was me, just rubbing it in again that I saw that awesome game live last week...

EDIT:

This post is slightly worrying: http://www.rugby365.com/article/67398-revitalised-jannie-vital-to-bok-cause

How many other teams can boast that they have so many quality tighthead props.

If Jannie is revitalised as they say, then it can only be a good thing. Let's see if it is the case and if he's on form. if not, I have no doubt HM will remove him from that role.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I agree. We have four quality tighthead props; Frans Malherbe, Vincent Koch, Marcel van der Merwe and at a push Julian Redelinghuys. If we look North we can add Brian Mujati and Wiehahn Herbst as well. Jannie du Plessis is not a quality prop anywhere other than possibly at CC level. It has been a long time since anyone could reasonably call him a quality prop. Why then, with the amount of class we have at our disposal in a key position do we continue selecting Jannie?

He is just alright in the scrum.

He is an absolute liability in open play.

His experience counts for nada as he is neither a leader nor cool-headed. In fact, he is an A-hole plain and simple. He not just drops off tackles as if he weighs 55kgs, he gives away stupid penalties because he likes to get involved off the ball and he gets found out at the scrum and then likes to whine about it as if the ref is an idiot.

Drop him.

 

[Sker]

Haha it's the South African curse. Poor selection in the frontrow since 2008.

 

[SomeOke]

Haha it's the South African curse. Poor selection in the frontrow since 2008.

To be fair on Meyer, until recent times (as in this year) there hasn't been a blatant option to replace Jannie, this means that all the other choices are very inexperienced. That said I agree that he should be dropped, he hasn't even scrummed well recently, the article that claimed he had a good game is full of it in my opinion, Guthro had his number.
As for Pienaar he played decently well but he still occasionally takes to much time to pass the ball to his backline, the World 15 didn't exactly have the best defensive back line so he got away with it, whether or not he is the right option going forward remains to be seen.

Not sure how I feel about Schalk at 8, Schalk adds a lot of value but I'm not sure its worth playing him out of position. Lastly JPP shouldn't be there at all, imagine how much more Combrink or Hougard would add, real pity. Still the RC this year is for working out a few things.

 

[TobesHodges]

Wallabies starting XV:

1 Slipper
2 Moore (c)
3 Kepu
4 Skelton
5 Simmons
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Higginbotham
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Horne
12 Giteau
13 Kuridrani
14 AAC
15 Folau

Tomane for Simmons.
Pocock for Fardy


They have some great backline Depth, with Beale, Tomoua, Foley, Nairyavoyo that they can use, but i think Conrad pointed out in another thread the have No depth at all in the Tight Five, always going to be there Achilles heal

 

[InsaneAsylum]

There's a Wallabies team floating around but the official announcement is today. Let's see if the leaked team differs from the official announcement.

 

[TobesHodges]

Please post when you know

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Haha it's the South African curse. Poor selection in the frontrow since 2008.

John Smit was great as far as I'm concerned in the last RWC Bismark (spelling-apologies) was far better and probably the best hooker in the world at the time and should have played more back then except for his temperament.

 

[Jaguares]

Official announcement Wallabies Squad for the Springbok Test:

1 Slipper
2 Moore (c)
3 Kepu
4 Skelton
5 Simmons
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Higginbotham
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Horne
12 Giteau
13 Kuridrani
14 Ashley-Cooper
15 Folau

16 Polota-Nau
17 Sio
18 Holmes
19 Horwill
20 Pocock
21 Phipps
22 Toomua
23 Mitchell

@TobesHodges;

Tomane for Simmons.
Pocock for Fardy

They have some great backline Depth, with Beale, Tomoua, Foley, Nairyavoyo that they can use, but i think Conrad pointed out in another thread the have No depth at all in the Tight Five, always going to be there Achilles heal

Tomane at the second row???

Yeah, but now they have a good scrum coach, Mario Ledesma. He has done a good cleaning, he didn't picked to Ben Alexander and Robinson. A good start for him but the Tight Five crisis has years, he can't work miracles but I think Holmes and Sio are a better option than Alexander and Robinson

 

[Shaggy]

Official announcement Australia Squad for Springbok Test:

1 Slipper
2 Moore (c)
3 Kepu
4 Skelton
5 Simmons
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Higginbotham
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Horne
12 Giteau
13 Kuridrani
14 Ashley-Cooper
15 Folau

16 Polota-Nau
17 Sio
18 Holmes
19 Horwill
20 Pocock
21 Phipps
22 Toomua
23 Mitchell



Tomane at the second row???

Yeah, but now they have a good scrum coach, Mario Ledesma. He has done a good cleaning, he didn't picked to Ben Alexander and Robinson. A good start for him but the Tight Five crisis has years, he can't work miracles but I think Holmes and Sio are a better option than Alexander and Robinson

A pretty strong lineup;a bit of a shame they are using AAC on the wing again (maybe he's better defensively, than the other options). Pocock should have a real impact from the bench.

Here's a link to confirm the line up http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...nst-south-africa/story-e6frf4pu-1227443855407

 

[TRF_heineken]

Am I the only one thinking that there are a lot of prospects in the Aussie team for yellow cards?

Skelton, Simmons, Fardy, Higginbotham and Holmes are all guys who are prone to discipline issues.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Am I the only one thinking that there are a lot of prospects in the Aussie team for yellow cards?

Skelton, Simmons, Fardy, Higginbotham and Holmes are all guys who are prone to discipline issues.

Am I the only one thinking that there are a lot of prospects in the South African team for yellow cards?

Bismark and Jannie Du Plessis, Etzebeth, Mtawira, Luow are all guys who are prone to discipline issues.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Am I the only one thinking that there are a lot of prospects in the South African team for yellow cards?

Bismark and Jannie Du Plessis, Etzebeth, Mtawira, Luow are all guys who are prone to discipline issues.

Really? Mtawarira??

Louw and Hooper can be held in the same regard as they usually get penalties against them at the ruck area.

I do agree with you on the other 3 though...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Gonna be a cracker. Aus at home are always tough. I think a lot will depend on how the Genia-Cooper-Giteau combo goes. The Reds were terrible this year but looked a lot mroe dangerous with Cooper the even though he hasn't had a lot of game time this year we know what he can do and Genia is a class act despite possibly not being in his best form? Gits is also a bit of an unknown for me being so long out of the test arena. He has done good things with Toulon though.

If we had our best available props starting I'd have felt a lot more confident.

 

[lynam1104]

Don't really understand picking Hooper over Pocock, Hooper's not a bad player but IMO despite being injured since the last WC I think Pocock is still possible the best 7 out there. Certainly as a breakdown specialist he's the best. Genia-Cooper-Gits sounds fantastic, I have little doubt that Gits will be able for test level and may be the missing link in the Aussie backline from the last few years.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Well doing the match ups-
1.Slipper v Jannie- Around the field Jannie can be a hindrance when he's at his worst, missing tackles and being lazy. In the scrum I would expect him to have the better of Slipper but I'm not sure.
2.Moore v Bismark- Both are very good at their set piece role, Bismark on form will be incredible over the ball and is like an openside trying to get him off the ball. Pretty Even IMO.
3.Kepu v Mtawarira- Not quite at his best but I think he will still be too much for Kepu.
4.Skelton v Etzebeth- In the lineout and in the loose Eben is just incredible, will probably become a bok great.
5.Simmons v Matfield- Now onto a Bok great and yes he isn't at his best but I think that in the lineout role Simmons cant compete.
6.Fardy v Coetzee - Very different players, but I think Coetzee is much more effective at Intl' level. Fardy is really only there because Skelton can't jump.
7.Hooper v Louw - Incredibly close. The best openside in the NH (IMO) up against Hooper who is also an incredible 7. It all depends how the front 5 performs for both players.
8.Higginbotham v Burger- On his day Hig can be unplayable but his discipline really becomes a problem. Burger is a very good flanker but no idea how he will be at 8.
9.Genia v Pienaar- For SA Ruan doesn't perform like he does for his club, Genia is very, very dangerous but his form has been poor.
10.Cooper v Pollard- Again it's all about form and Cooper hasn't been playing that much. Pollard is an very good prospect and I believe that he will have a good game.
11.Horne v Habana- Not really a competition. I like Horne but he isn't a intl level winger, Habana is obviously well known and scores tries for fun.
12.Giteau v De Allende- I have no clue what Toulon form will mean on the intl stage, De Allende was perfection in super rugby but he does miss tackles.
13.Kuridrani v Kriel- Dangerous ball carrier who has taken to the intl' game with ease.
14.AAC v JJP- Both are the same really. Slow but defensively sure, probably wont get much change down their respective channels.
15.Folau v Le Roux- Both are great players, We'll see what form they are going into this world cup but I fell neither are as good as they were last year.

 

[SomeOke]

Scary looking Aussie side, I seem to be one of the few people who rate Hooper above Pocock, Pocock is the better fetcher (marginally) but Hooper is better at everything else and a fantastic ball carrier.
11,13,14,15 are very solid defensively good players as well as attacking threats, one can't help but feel the match is going to be decided on how well Genia/Cooper/Gitea perform. Ultimately it's also decided on if the Aussie forwards can contain our pack.
On paper it's the classic SA has the edge up front, and Aus has the edge in the backs match up.

 

[TobesHodges]

Tomane at the second row???

I was thinking Lopeti Timani the Rebels Second Row, dont know which nationality he belongs to, either Aus or Tonga.. so kinda my bad..

- - - Updated - - -

Well doing the match ups-
1.Slipper v Jannie- Around the field Jannie can be a hindrance when he's at his worst, missing tackles and being lazy. In the scrum I would expect him to have the better of Slipper but I'm not sure.
2.Moore v Bismark- Both are very good at their set piece role, Bismark on form will be incredible over the ball and is like an openside trying to get him off the ball. Pretty Even IMO.
3.Kepu v Mtawarira- Not quite at his best but I think he will still be too much for Kepu.
4.Skelton v Etzebeth- In the lineout and in the loose Eben is just incredible, will probably become a bok great.
5.Simmons v Matfield- Now onto a Bok great and yes he isn't at his best but I think that in the lineout role Simmons cant compete.
6.Fardy v Coetzee - Very different players, but I think Coetzee is much more effective at Intl' level. Fardy is really only there because Skelton can't jump.
7.Hooper v Louw - Incredibly close. The best openside in the NH (IMO) up against Hooper who is also an incredible 7. It all depends how the front 5 performs for both players.
8.Higginbotham v Burger- On his day Hig can be unplayable but his discipline really becomes a problem. Burger is a very good flanker but no idea how he will be at 8.
9.Genia v Pienaar- For SA Ruan doesn't perform like he does for his club, Genia is very, very dangerous but his form has been poor.
10.Cooper v Pollard- Again it's all about form and Cooper hasn't been playing that much. Pollard is an very good prospect and I believe that he will have a good game.
11.Horne v Habana- Not really a competition. I like Horne but he isn't a intl level winger, Habana is obviously well known and scores tries for fun.
12.Giteau v De Allende- I have no clue what Toulon form will mean on the intl stage, De Allende was perfection in super rugby but he does miss tackles.
13.Kuridrani v Kriel- Dangerous ball carrier who has taken to the intl' game with ease.
14.AAC v JJP- Both are the same really. Slow but defensively sure, probably wont get much change down their respective channels.
15.Folau v Le Roux- Both are great players, We'll see what form they are going into this world cup but I fell neither are as good as they were last year.

Louw Hooper will be a great match up! Both teams look really solid.

Love watching Eben Etzebeth play he just has a presence about him, stormers always seem to get to the next gear when he's playing..

 

[amz]

6.Fardy v Coetzee - Very different players, but I think Coetzee is much more effective at Intl' level. Fardy is really only there because Skelton can't jump.
.

Fardy is one of the best blindside flankers in the world, he's doing the basics way better than many and adds contribution to lineout.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This SA line-up just highlights the fact for me again that PdV really messed with SA rugby.

We are actually still dealing with the fallout and here's why I say it:

Habana, Jaque Fourie, Victor Matfield, Du Plessis bro's, JPP, Fourie du Preez, JdV, Morne Steyn, Ruan Pienaar. Undoutedly class players even if some are a tad long in the tooth. Still around the squad and they were brought in under Jake White.

Handre Pollard, Jesse Kriel, Cobus Reinach, Eben Etzebeth, PSdT, Damian de Allende, Willie le Roux, Marcel Coetzee. The guys that I am excited about ATM and looking ahead post 2015. All brought in by Meyer.

Now to get to my point where are the guys aged between 25 and 30? The guys that should be in their prime playing SR in SA right now? Has SA not birthed quality players in between 1984 and 1992? I would like to put forward that it may not be JUST the poor Rand that sees those guys in Europe but the fact that under Pieter de Villiers the Bok squad was so ring-fenced they might as well have been wrapped up, stamped and put on a plane by PdV.

If they were given a chance I am sure instead of Matfield at 37 we'd be seeing the best of Juandre Kruger. There is a gap in SA rugby and we are not just feeling it at SR level but also in the test team. Luckily we can call up our overseas based players now. It'd have been better if they were in SA but that ship has sailed. It's a sin we've only now replaced post-2011 Guthro Steenkamp with Heinke van der Merwe. I could go on to name many more.

Politics and sport don't mix well. PdV should never have been Bok coach as a political appointment. That did much more damage than one or two questionable players ever might IMO.