[2016 Super Rugby] Hurricanes vs. Lions (The Final) 06/08/2016

[Nubiwan]

a disappointing game of rugby all around and you have to think the conditions never helped much.

The Lions handed the game to the Canes in some respects, and they hardly looked a threat in the 2nd half. I recall them getting into the Canes 22 only when the outcome was foregone.

Barretts had some good outings recently, but this was hardly stellar for him. His positional kicking was to essentially put it down their end, and the lions looked clueless on counter, or just kicked it back. Lions looked too desperate to make things happen in the 2nd half, and it basically lead to more basic ball handling errors. Once Van Rensbug (SP?) went off, you wondered where their real threat was coming from.

Unless you were a fan of either side, it played out with as much excitement as a regular round game. Lions were disappointing, at very best, and the Canes were hardly inspiring with ball in hand either. Good defence I suppose, but even one decent line break in the game might have made it a little more interesting.

I go back to my comments from the past weeks and would question if the Lions are all that good? Certainly, the conditions never helped them tonight, but the Canes had the same conditions to deal with. Hard to say.

Thought the ref was OK, but, for me, may have missed a couple of calls that went against the Lions. Pretty sure a forward pass before the games first pen, and when the Lions did get a ramble near the Canes 22, I thought Savea had hands in a ruck for am awful long time, but the call went his way for player holding on. NO replays to confirm either.

In the end - Lions not good enough for me - Jantjes had a stinker - as did the Lions Back Line in fairness - Canes hardly inspired either - so all round - an average game in below average conditions.

Take nothing away from the Canes who have dominated everyone the last few weeks - worthy champs in the end.... Even if one of the duller finals I can remember.

 

[ianw16]

Well done Canes. Q/F, S/F & final = 12 points conceded. Not a single try!

 

[austingtir]

Hansen likes the um... the ability to have a player such as Barrett who can play numerous positions. Fullback, second-five, fly-half, whatever. But I don't think Hansen will take him for first choice. Do I think he should be first choice? He played a lot better vs the Welsh than Cruden did. The All Blacks felt like the All Blacks when Barrett played at 10. With Cruden those games they looked stagnant, slow, and just average. I would have to see Barrett play South Africa, he really does bring a lot to the table.

I dunno what it is but to me Barrett does seem to play better against SA teams. Maybe its just me.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Oh? Which team was? I assumed we got the home final by finishing top of the table in the most difficult conference.

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What game were you watching? Barrett was probably the player of the match..

What? Were his decisions to constantly kick possession away to a team that needed it, "player of the match" worthy? If Barrett played like he did vs the Chiefs it would have been something to watch. The Lions could have won, it was just fortunate they didn't show up. All they needed was a few 5+ phases, just poor decisions. They certainly looked a lot more dangerous than the Hurricanes.

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The Chiefs and Highlanders were the best two teams in Super Rugby this year no question. Although the Hurricanes have been phenomenal in the last 6/7 weeks

The Hurricanes made the Chiefs look average in the semis. And the Chiefs got lucky in their first encounter this season... I don't see how they would be considered better than the Hurricanes. If they were, they would have won, or at least scored a try...

 

[Ludders93]

The Lions pack were pretty committed, and actually dominant in the game for spells. Some handling mistakes, and didn't get the maul drive going, 1 bad scrum at a crucial time but definitely got parity with the Canes. Jantjies was so poor he didn't give the Lions a chance to win that game. From the first kickoff, to his goal-kicking, to his pass to Mapoe that led to the Jane try, to his general unwillingness to attack the line, to his knock-ons, he was absolutely terrible. Being outdived by Barrett summed up the lack of heart and effort he put in. Skosan and Mapoe were dreadful as well, Van Rensburg and Combrink played well, De Klerk was a mixed bag, but at least he tried. This is why I raise the race issue, it's not an attempt to be controversial and I know it's a touchy subject, but the 3 mixed race Lions backs were absolutely terrible, is it just a coincidence. Add in how poor Garth April was for the Sharks, with JP Pietersen not far behind as the second worst player on the pitch, and there's a trend emerging.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Lions did not perform under pressure, Jantjies and the kicking average to bad.
Canes played very well, won it by applying the correct pressure at the right times and killer defense

Congrats Hurricanes and their fans

 

[Nubiwan]

I said last week when they beat the HL easily that Jantjies isnt as good as he's been looking. Under any pressure he flakes out. To be fair to the Lions though I think there coach has made a number of errors dropping the game in arg and the tactics in this match are major FAILS. They should learn alot from this though for next year.

If it were a race issue there would be a better 10 in the reserves or something and I assume theres not so its not a race issue.

Yes -very much a ball going forward type of player. I have never been impressed with him, even if he looked good in the last two games in SA. Under pressure today, when the Lions needed a cool head, he deserted the post. Offloading in his 22 lead to the first try. Became a victim of chasing the match afterwards, and the conditions, and he is simply not a great kicker or decision make under pressure. But some credit for that has to go to the Canes defence in fairness to anyone that has played them. Janjties still been overrated for me..

 

[austingtir]

^^ Never liked JP Pieterson myself but not sure how he gets brought into that he's actually a pretty classy player.

 

[GoTheNaki]

The Lions pack were pretty committed, and actually dominant in the game for spells. Some handling mistakes, and didn't get the maul drive going, 1 bad scrum at a crucial time but definitely got parity with the Canes. Jantjies was so poor he didn't give the Lions a chance to win that game. From the first kickoff, to his goal-kicking, to his pass to Mapoe that led to the Jane try, to his general unwillingness to attack the line, to his knock-ons, he was absolutely terrible. Being outdived by Barrett summed up the lack of heart and effort he put in. Skosan and Mapoe were dreadful as well, Van Rensburg and Combrink played well, De Klerk was a mixed bag, but at least he tried. This is why I raise the race issue, it's not an attempt to be controversial and I know it's a touchy subject, but the 3 mixed race Lions backs were absolutely terrible, is it just a coincidence. Add in how poor Garth April was for the Sharks, with JP Pietersen not far behind as the second worst player on the pitch, and there's a trend emerging.

Like I said.... How many games, do these PIVOTAL players play, in these conditions? 1? Have they played a game like that this year? Cold, wet, windy, utterly ugly conditions for rugby. For the rugby that they have been beating teams with... in the dry. You are going to focus on THESE players because they are vital to their teams.

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Jantjies had a game, like Barrett did last finals. Now people are running about claiming Barrett is the best player in the world atm... People putting a cross through his name are being ridiculous.

 

[Ludders93]

Even small things, like Barrett's touchline conversion in these tricky conditions, had a huge impact. Making it 10-3 instead of 8-3, then the Lions get on the Canes' line, and go for a scrum instead of taking a penalty, which they would've at 8-3. Suddenly it's 10-3 at half time instead of 8-6, and the Lions are chasing the game. At the moment Barrett is playing the best rugby of any individual in the world no doubt

NB-Whiteley's decision to take a scrum when the Lions were 10 metres out, not even on the 5 yard line, with a semi-dominant (not completely dominant scrum) at 10-3 down just before half time with the wind in the second half to use, is about as poor a decision I can recall in a meaningful match

 

[Sker]

Seemed a tad windy out there on the pitch

 

[Nubiwan]

What? Were his decisions to constantly kick possession away to a team that needed it, "player of the match" worthy? If Barrett played like he did vs the Chiefs it would have been something to watch. The Lions could have won, it was just fortunate they didn't show up. All they needed was a few 5+ phases, just poor decisions. They certainly looked a lot more dangerous than the Hurricanes.

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The Hurricanes made the Chiefs look average in the semis. And the Chiefs got lucky in their first encounter this season... I don't see how they would be considered better than the Hurricanes. If they were, they would have won, or at least scored a try...

I agree - much hoopla over Barrett this year. Hes bloody fast though, I know that. Kicking was simply average today. And he did it a lot. Finals rugby I suppose.

Hmm - Canes defence beat the Chiefs if I remember correctly, but I thought the chiefs dominated the game. More credit to the Canes defence than anything else and Barrett having a blinder. In every other statisitic, bar tries scored, the Chiefs were dominant. Canes are not the first team to win Super Rugby with solid defence. Recall the Brumbies team winning ti simply because opposition could not break them down.

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Canes 2 tries coming from the Lions looking schollboyish in exiting their own 22 was ultimately what settled the game. 14 points right there, otherwise the game could just as easily have ended up 6-3, such were the constant handling errors and overall lacklustre performance from both sides in the conditions. Call me a sour puss, but a bit of a yawner, given some of the real treats we have been served up in the past month or so. 6-3 was about as interesting as it got.

 

[nickdnz]

The Chiefs and Highlanders were the best two teams in Super Rugby this year no question. Although the Hurricanes have been phenomenal in the last 6/7 weeks

Weird cause I remember us beating both those teams.

 

[Nubiwan]

Even small things, like Barrett's touchline conversion in these tricky conditions, had a huge impact. Making it 10-3 instead of 8-3, then the Lions get on the Canes' line, and go for a scrum instead of taking a penalty, which they would've at 8-3. Suddenly it's 10-3 at half time instead of 8-6, and the Lions are chasing the game. At the moment Barrett is playing the best rugby of any individual in the world no doubt

NB-Whiteley's decision to take a scrum when the Lions were 10 metres out, not even on the 5 yard line, with a semi-dominant (not completely dominant scrum) at 10-3 down just before half time with the wind in the second half to use, is about as poor a decision I can recall in a meaningful match

Well, the Canes got the shove on that scrum, but it occurred to me the Canes loose head was driving on an angle. Might just have been the way of the drive. You are correct. Should have taken the 3 in Cup Final rugby.

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Weird cause I remember us beating both those teams.

I remember about 10 Chiefs scrums under the Canes posts (with 3 points on offer) in the semi final, for the opening 20 odd minutes, and then Barrett running 90 metres. Soon after a pen in front of the chiefs posts that the Canes kicked. Chiefs dominated most aspect of the game, bar the actual scoring of tries. There is no question that Canes defence and counter attacking is what makes them better than most teams in the comp.

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Can I ask all the kind Southern Hemi folk why professional teams, playing in a cup final no less, opt to take a scrum or lineout when gifted 3 points in front of goal?

How many times have we seen the option backfire in the past 2-3 weeks. Chiefs did it last week opting for several scrums in front of the Cane posts, and the Lions did similar today. It is a losing strategy at best.

I have literally witnessed teams losing by a single point, into the last minute of a game, on the opposition goal line, opting to try and score a try, as opposed to a simple drop kick in front of the posts. Almost to a fault at times.

Bizarre to us boring kickers from the north. "Posts please sir"

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Funny to see Jantjies singled out for the two Canes tries, particularly Barrett one. I suppose the bungled lineout and the anticipation and speed of the best player on the park (while Jantjies was having to turn back in himself) had nothing to do with it. No doubt Jantjies had a poor game by his standard this season (as did many of his teammates) but he'd clearly been given bad tactics to be expansive in the first 30mins. When he switched to short kicks and up and unders he was perfectly fine (as did de Clerk). His performance the faded again when they went two scores down and had to chase the game against a notoriously fierce rush defence. He also was routinely receiving balls at neck and head height which doesn't make scanning the field any easier and I don't think he knocked on once despite the outbreak of butterfingers by his teammates in the wet. I also never saw anyone break the gain line against his defence. Anyone looking at this as a terrible performance at 10 needs to watch more France, Scotland and Italy internationals!

On another note I'd say the ref was excellent from the very start. Far better than what I've seen from Gardner and Joubert in recent weeks.

 

[nzlizard]

The Hurricanes made the Chiefs look average in the semis. And the Chiefs got lucky in their first encounter this season... I don't see how they would be considered better than the Hurricanes. If they were, they would have won, or at least scored a try...

Yeah the Canes were deserving winners, they played well and holding teams tryless 3 games in a row is epic.

I thought Barrett / Canes were playing to a game plan more than anything, put the ball deep then force the turnover through a mistake, which they seemed to do quite often, they out thought the Lions for most of the game and there line speed was top class. Once they got the scrum going it even better. They played good **** weather rugby.

The Lions showed glimpses of what they could do and at times they had the ascendancy, but the Canes were never going to win all 80 minutes, not in a final, that defense of theirs was resolute though, had the game sown up with a couple of minutes to go but never relented and held strong.

Hats off to Boyd and what he has done with the team, things like benching Savea how he has, sends the signal that you don't perform you don't play, then you look at how some of the fringe players have performed and you can see why they don't let in tries, players know the consequences and will die for that try line.

1st AB team going to be interesting.

 

[easy2288]

Congratulations to Hurricanes. You certainly deserved to win the ***le this year.

Many said LIONs made a wrong decision to send the B Team to Argentina. But if they did sent the A team. Could they have beaten the HL so easily?They might not be even in the in the final

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Congratulations to Hurricanes. You certainly deserved to win the ***le this year.

Many said LIONs made a wrong decision to send the B Team to Argentina. But if they did sent the A team. Could they have beaten the HL so easily?They might not be even in the in the final

They could have rested some starters in Argentina, or indeed in previous weeks. They had a lot of options other than taking an entire second team against the Jaguares that would have served them much better. Ackerman deserves huge credit for what he has done with the team but that was a terrible decision and today was the obvious outcome loads of us were predicting as a result. His tactics today also left a lot to be desired. But coaches, like players, can learn from their errors.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

TBH I don't get why people are bagging on Barrett. I thought he was exceptional given the circumstances and he has shown that consistently the end of this season and play-offs. We all know he can break a game wide open. Doesn't it show him to be even a better player having showed he can boss a game without break-away tries every 10 minutes etc or what exactly? He did score a try in each of these knock-out games, he did put Jane away for the (non)try (it wasn't Barrett that slightly fumbled that ball in the lead up). What more do people want?

The Lions pack were pretty committed, and actually dominant in the game for spells. Some handling mistakes, and didn't get the maul drive going, 1 bad scrum at a crucial time but definitely got parity with the Canes. Jantjies was so poor he didn't give the Lions a chance to win that game. From the first kickoff, to his goal-kicking, to his pass to Mapoe that led to the Jane try, to his general unwillingness to attack the line, to his knock-ons, he was absolutely terrible. Being outdived by Barrett summed up the lack of heart and effort he put in. Skosan and Mapoe were dreadful as well, Van Rensburg and Combrink played well, De Klerk was a mixed bag, but at least he tried. This is why I raise the race issue, it's not an attempt to be controversial and I know it's a touchy subject, but the 3 mixed race Lions backs were absolutely terrible, is it just a coincidence. Add in how poor Garth April was for the Sharks, with JP Pietersen not far behind as the second worst player on the pitch, and there's a trend emerging.

I think that's a lazy generalization to make. Did April have a howler in his first QF of SR in his debut year f professional rugby? Yes. Yes he did but so too did Rob du Preez. Sure, Du Preez had the added pressure of just returning from injury as well but this is the first year these guys have played SR. April essentially went directly from club rugby to SR. Its a big ask. On JPP I think he wasn't the poorest from the Sharks. I thought Le Roux was much worse and put his wings under undue pressure. Its unfair to say JPP doesn't have BMT, he has shown he has in much bigger games. I'd put the fact he didn't shine down more to his being off form in general than 'disappearing'.

Jantjies buckled under pressure. He's done it before and he'll do it again. Better players have had the same happen to them. There is a general consensus in SA that Jantjies looks better going forward than most in SA but looks worse than all f our 10s when under pressure. At the Stormers when we had him on loan the year the Lions were out of SR he went from hero to villia in the space of a game. At the Lions in 2012 he looked like he could do it all. Move him to Newlands where our 10s are more exposed and he couldn't tie his shoe-laces. But thats the player, not his race IMO.

Was Skosan dreadful? I saw him managing to stop (at least long enough for help to arrive) Savea at full tilt. I don't think there'd be many wingers of his build that'd have the heart to even try. He simply wasn't afforded the opportunities he has been up till now. Its unfair to put it down to race. Same with Mapoe and same with Janse van Rensburg who also dropped balls he would've taken the previous week.

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They could have rested some starters in Argentina, or indeed in previous weeks. They had a lot of options other than taking an entire second team against the Jaguares that would have served them much better. Ackerman deserves huge credit for what he has done with the team but that was a terrible decision and today was the obvious outcome loads of us were predicting as a result. His tactics today also left a lot to be desired. But coaches, like players, can learn from their errors.

I have to agree. He could've sent such players like Janse van Rensburg, Andries Coetzee and Ruan Ackermann, players who had only had 1/2 a season behind the belt whether for selection or injury reasons. Surely those players can be reasonably be expected to come out at least on a par with the rest? A guy like Coetzee might even have done well with getting game time since he was out injured so long.

I too question his tactics but it happens and I can understand and respect the fact they tried to do what has worked for them up till then and TBF they did slightly change their approached when it was clear their approach wasn't working. It went better but not better enough, they had an uphill battle to start with (travel, alien weather and the expected calls that favored the home team in those fine margins) and a misstart didn't help.

Which brings me back to the Jaguares game and the fact that they could've been the team with the home advantage, posiibly even more skewing than what Wellington was. A gamble took and just about all called it a poor one even before it didn't pay.

 

[smartcooky]

What I found quite unusual is that Jaco Kriel was was so quiet. I had expected a big game from him, but his name was hardly mentioned. He usually averages about six metres per carry (over 50m per game) but in this game his 36 metres from 12 carries was low in conditions that should have suited him.