A look ahead: the 2014 Six Nations

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Munster are producing their fair share. In terms of playing population they have a much smaller base, but they're doing okay. Peter O'Mahony and Conor Murray aren't going anywhere any time soon, while JJ is obviously a phenomenal talent. Big things are still expected of Paddy Butler and I still hold out real hopes for Dave Foley in the second row.

Foley is talented but he'll be 26 before the end of the season. It's time he stepped up.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I'm quite hopeful for Ireland in this 6nations, every team apart from Wales are in a transition phase and we've got a hugely talented player base to choose from, especially in the backs.

9. Murray, Marmion
10. Sexton, Madigan, Jackson
11-14. Zebo (will he be back?), Gilroy, Earls, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Kearney óg, Trimble???
12. D'Arcy, Marshall
13. O'Driscoll, Cave, Fitzgerald
15. Kearney, Henshaw (If he can replicate today in green)

As for the forwards though injury and lack of depth we're a bit skint on front 5 players, we've got 2 looseheads who are definitely up to international level but at hooker and tighthead through injury and lack of depth respectively we could struggle. The second row is funny, we have a world class operator in O'Connell but behind him we have a group of average to good players with Ryan leading the pack, along with scrumhalf I think when all our players are available second row is our weakest position.

Backrow is another question, we can stick with what we have, two world class backrows carrying one who's not quite up to international level, or we could try blood some of the players who could really make our backline feared come the next world cup and I think Tommy O'Donnell and Iain Henderson are our best bets, but then there's the question of turning Henderson into a second row as well.

I think it would be the wrong decision to turn Henderson into a second row, although we need it he isn't anywhere near as effective when he has to use so much energy in the scrums so he doesn't get enough chances to use his destructive ball carrying ability.
Rory Best will make it in time for the 6N I'm pretty sure, I've heard his recovery is going very well - and Cronin imo is more than capable of back up.

Probably coming from a bit of a biased point of view but I think Henry needs another few chances, he really was in the top 3 flankers last year in the HC.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I knew I was forgetting a backrow, given the chances O'Mahoney has had Henry would probably have cemented his place in the side.

 

[dullonien]

Who's JJ? Haven't seen much Heineken cup this year or Amlin.

JJ Hanrahan I think. Very promising player from what I've seen, but if I'm thinking of the right player he's been a little injury prone similar to Felix Jones and Zebo.

 

[profitius]

Eh, not so sure, anyone I've talked to around school or whatever seem to really dislike him and think he's rather rubbish.

See the link there? Schoolboys come right out and say it while older people and posters try to be more subtle about it. One quiet game from the teams best player over the last 2 years and you have the bandwagon starting up again.


He has been Munsters best player for 2 years and was the real MOTM in one of Irelands 3 games this autumn. The Munster backrow outplayed Leinsters backrow the last few times they played and Irelands backrow just got the better of the ABs. But amazingly it was Heaslip and SOB taking on 3 ABs despite having a passenger on board!


Here is some analysis from Murray Kinsellla.
http://www.thescore.ie/peter-omahony-analysis-1171482-Nov2013/

 

[profitius]

JJ Hanrahan I think. Very promising player from what I've seen, but if I'm thinking of the right player he's been a little injury prone similar to Felix Jones and Zebo.

Not injury prone but he is being held back though. He had a bad game today when he came on.

 

[Peat]

See the link there? Schoolboys come right out and say it while older people and posters try to be more subtle about it. One quiet game from the teams best player over the last 2 years and you have the bandwagon starting up again.


He has been Munsters best player for 2 years and was the real MOTM in one of Irelands 3 games this autumn. The Munster backrow outplayed Leinsters backrow the last few times they played and Irelands backrow just got the better of the ABs. But amazingly it was Heaslip and SOB taking on 3 ABs despite having a passenger on board!


Here is some analysis from Murray Kinsellla.
http://www.thescore.ie/peter-omahony-analysis-1171482-Nov2013/

I don't think the bandwagon has ever stopped rolling. There's been more acknowledgement of what he does right, but still plenty of criticism for what he doesn't do right, and I have to say I cannot disagree more with the idea he's been one of the team's best players over the last 2 years. Kinsella writes good articles, but I don't think that's one of his better ones, and it highlights a few of the issues people have with O'Mahony. Apparently he hit 11 attacking rucks. According to ESPN, Ireland had 63 attacking rucks. That seems a really low level of participation. Its hard to be sure, as most rucks statistics including attacking and defensive rucks, but it compares pretty low with guys hitting 20 rucks in the first half of the Lions game and multiple England players hitting 30 plus in an average international. I doubt O'Mahony made it up with work at the defensive ruck either because Kinsella notes that O'Mahony often spread into the defensive line. Which is sensible, fair enough - not reflected in tackle count though. He made 7 according to ESPN. The only other starting forward with that low a total was Chris Henry, who only lasted 34 minutes. O'Connell and O'Brien both made more tackles from the bench.

He's got a lot going for him. Kinsella rightly pinpoints his footballing skills and ability to win turnovers. Everyone knows he's a good carrier and lineout operator, although show me the back row who isn't both lifter and jumper. Even O'Brien takes ball from time to time. But that alone does not make a guy a good blindside. He will continue to cop flak in a green jersey until he is performing a blindside's traditional primary role, which is to bring overwhelming physicality to bear in as much situations as possible. That's not the only way to be a good blindside, granted, but its the way people understand best. Look at Croft, currently the premier seagulling 6 in international rugby. Incredibly heavily criticised, and he can point to being a world class lineout operator and as fast as most international backs. Genuine freakish x-factor qualities that O'Mahony does not have yet, and I am not sure he ever will. And, in this case, I think Ireland need a physical player, a grafter, rather than a thoroughbred.

 

[Amobokoboko]

It's hard to say. As every year England - Wales are top favorites followed by France and Ireland. Upsets to be expected by Scotland and Italy.

I hope to see some good rugby

 

[ratsapprentice]

I've got to say that I've never really quite understood why people seem to rate O'Mahony so highly either.

 

[big ginger 8]

Eh, not so sure, anyone I've talked to around school or whatever seem to really dislike him and think he's rather rubbish.

I would say that's because of the province you're from. People from more southern influenced provinces (through the Irish Independant mostly) hear mostly good things about him.


Because I did it at the start of the season and because he's really looked good the last few weeks I'm going to shout Ruddocks name again. He is that physical presence so many want at 6. He doesn't have that x factor that the likes of O'Mahony or Henderson have but he can be the enforcer we need. Chris Henry is also of course a good shout. I think with our backrow we are in a situation where with our flankers at least we can do a horses for courses selection to partner SO'B.

of course we can whisper it quietly...Stephen Ferris...

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I would say that's because of the province you're from. People from more southern influenced provinces (through the Irish Independant mostly) hear mostly good things about him.


Because I did it at the start of the season and because he's really looked good the last few weeks I'm going to shout Ruddocks name again. He is that physical presence so many want at 6. He doesn't have that x factor that the likes of O'Mahony or Henderson have but he can be the enforcer we need. Chris Henry is also of course a good shout. I think with our backrow we are in a situation where with our flankers at least we can do a horses for courses selection to partner SO'B.

of course we can whisper it quietly...Stephen Ferris...

Yeah true, that's not my opinion though I actually think he's pretty good but really that's what a lot of people tend to say up here.

Whats up with Jordi Murphy? Saw him play a couple of times a while ago and he looked good but I haven't heard of him since.

 

[big ginger 8]

Yeah true, that's not my opinion though I actually think he's pretty good but really that's what a lot of people tend to say up here.

Whats up with Jordi Murphy? Saw him play a couple of times a while ago and he looked good but I haven't heard of him since.

Yeah as with any player he's somewhere in between both extremes he's labeled with.

Murphy's been injured until recently and is being managed back. I've good hopes for him he's a very good carrier but maybe needs to up his workrate without the ball.

 

[Rich Taff]

[h=3]

Wales' Six Nations refereeing appointments[/h]

• Saturday, 1 Feb 2014 14:30 Wales v Italy Millennium Stadium, Cardiff John Lacey (IRFU)

• Saturday, 8 Feb 2014 14:30 Ireland v Wales Aviva Stadium, Dublin Wayne Barnes (RFU)

• Friday, 21 Feb 2014 20:00 Wales v France Millennium Stadium, Cardiff Alain Rolland (IRFU)

• Sunday, 9 Mar 2014 15:00 England v Wales Twickenham, London Romain Poite (FFR)

• Saturday, 15 Mar 2014 14:45 Wales v Scotland Millennium Stadium, Cardiff Jérôme Garces (FFR)

Think i'll change my predictions due to 3 French Ref's and Barnes. (Someone at the IRB really has a sense of humour giving us Rolland in his last ever game. At least we can be sure the door hits him on the way out).

France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

[h=3]
[/LIST]

Think i'll change my predictions due to 3 French Ref's and Barnes. (Someone at the IRB really has a sense of humour giving us Rolland in his last ever game. At least we can be sure the door hits him on the way out).

France
England
Ireland
Wales
Scotland
Italy

A very Welsh post. Half the refs in the world are out to get Wales eh?

 

[Groundhog]

Give me a fit Tommy O'Donnell to make **** of your 'prospects'. The man's a wrecking ball and a destroyer of worlds. He eats pieces of **** like you guys (plural) for breakfast and has never ever been tackled. Seriously though, he's never mentioned for some reason. Dougall was absolute class over the weekend too, it must be said. I'm looking forward to what Copeland can do next year in the provincial spotlight. Again a big carrier with plenty of competition.
Everyone has gone arse over ***s for McGrath which is fair enough, but Kilcoyne is still here, and really hasn't done much wrong for us this year. The lad is a vertical fall of man who can actually scrum too.
It was mentioned above but I think Scannell should be good for us in the distant future from what I've seen of him. It must be said that Munster seriously delay giving their players chances for the first team, in stark contrast to Ulster who give anyone with a pair of boots a run out.

 

[Big Ewis]

. He eats pieces of **** like you guys (plural) for breakfast and has never ever been tackled.

terribly sorry to be Adam Sandler, but....Tommy O'Donnel eats pieces of **** for breakfast ???....

 

[Groundhog]

terribly sorry to be Adam Sandler, but....Tommy O'Donnel eats pieces of **** for breakfast ???....

I wouldn't expect you to understand. You've never been to Tipperary.

 

[profitius]

I don't think the bandwagon has ever stopped rolling. There's been more acknowledgement of what he does right, but still plenty of criticism for what he doesn't do right, and I have to say I cannot disagree more with the idea he's been one of the team's best players over the last 2 years. Kinsella writes good articles, but I don't think that's one of his better ones, and it highlights a few of the issues people have with O'Mahony. Apparently he hit 11 attacking rucks. According to ESPN, Ireland had 63 attacking rucks. That seems a really low level of participation. Its hard to be sure, as most rucks statistics including attacking and defensive rucks, but it compares pretty low with guys hitting 20 rucks in the first half of the Lions game and multiple England players hitting 30 plus in an average international. I doubt O'Mahony made it up with work at the defensive ruck either because Kinsella notes that O'Mahony often spread into the defensive line. Which is sensible, fair enough - not reflected in tackle count though. He made 7 according to ESPN. The only other starting forward with that low a total was Chris Henry, who only lasted 34 minutes. O'Connell and O'Brien both made more tackles from the bench.

He's got a lot going for him. Kinsella rightly pinpoints his footballing skills and ability to win turnovers. Everyone knows he's a good carrier and lineout operator, although show me the back row who isn't both lifter and jumper. Even O'Brien takes ball from time to time. But that alone does not make a guy a good blindside. He will continue to cop flak in a green jersey until he is performing a blindside's traditional primary role, which is to bring overwhelming physicality to bear in as much situations as possible. That's not the only way to be a good blindside, granted, but its the way people understand best. Look at Croft, currently the premier seagulling 6 in international rugby. Incredibly heavily criticised, and he can point to being a world class lineout operator and as fast as most international backs. Genuine freakish x-factor qualities that O'Mahony does not have yet, and I am not sure he ever will. And, in this case, I think Ireland need a physical player, a grafter, rather than a thoroughbred.

Thats a bizarre statement. I watch all the big Munster matches and hes always among the best players on the pitch. Trying to dig up some stats from games to justify your criticism means nothing. Stats when taken out of context mean nothing. The coaches have way more stats than any of us. The players these days have gps trackers on them to measure how hard they're working etc. We don't have access to that data. Dismissing Murray Kinsella too I see. Hes one of the best analysts out there.


Comparing POM to Tom Croft is nonsense. Croft is taller and lighter for starters. Just because they're both standing out wide at times. Henderson does it too incase you have not noticed! They're instructed to do it. Kieran Read does it. Is he lazy too? Sometimes POM plays a more straight forward blindside role, depending on what the coach wants. When the **** hits the fan hes the kind of player you need to rely on as he showed in the American tour last summer.

 

[Peat]

Ulster have shed a lot of their middling squad players i.e. Whitten, Faloon, Kyriacou and spent their wages on retaining top end players while relying on the youngsters to fill the gaps. While watching the likes of McIlwaine, McKinney and Andrew doddle around isn't exactly massive fun, as an overall strategy it's going ok. Of course it helps that Ulster are getting a talented generation/finally beginning to see the benefits of investing in the academy, although that's probably a couple of years down the line.

edit: Profitus, I thought by team you meant Ireland, not Munster. Yeah, he's been great for Munster, but then Trimble's been consistently fantastic for Ulster and nobody's trumpeting him. Not the most reliable barometer of international worth. I'm not quite sure why acknowledging Kinsella as a guy who writes good articles is dismissing him either. He does, just not this time. There's no way trumpeting his rucks hit stat, without bringing up the number of rucks in the game, or how many rucks the other forwards were hitting, is good analysis. Sometimes people get it wrong, he got it wrong there, he did not present a good argument. His stats are far more out of context than mine. I am so very sorry for trying to give some reason to my views, next time I'll just tell you he's the most overrated player in Ireland and tell you to take my word for it.

And, uhm, ok. No point comparing players fulfilling similar roles then. I know that tons of forwards are frequently seen out wide, most of them also do work nearer the ball as well though. Henderson is stood out wide a lot, but somehow got 30 more tackles than O'Mahony in the last HEC season despite playing a game less, that's a pretty weird stat. However, the issue is not so much that O'Mahony is seagulling, its that it doesn't seem to serve the team. Heaslip and O'Brien both have to play narrower to compensate, and that's not the best use for them, and is O'Mahony good enough to warrant that? I don't think so.

I'm not even saying he's hopeless or should be dropped tomorrow. I'm merely saying he is not a traditional blindside, he doesn't appear to be the best fit for the team, and that he shouldn't be an Ireland certainty the way Murray is, not now or in the future.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

O'Mahoney is a good player and nothing better in my opinion. We have players available who aren't too far behind him and can be better by the world cup so we should use them. Even if he's good for Munster he's not good enough for Ireland and shouldn't be there, I'd take Henderson, Henry or O'Donnell over him any day!