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A Political Thread pt. 2

dirty harry said:
Ok, that was a hard turn away from the issue lol.

When have I not held Trump accountable?
I've constantly criticised him, I just don't accept the criticism that is manufactured pearl clutching and lies...

There are 3 stories a week ***led Trump is finished, or Trump officially crosses a line, and there is always at very least enough grey area to write these stories off lol

From deporting illegal gang members and naming him 'Maryland man', deporting sick cancerous American citizen children, without acknowledging the illegal mothers chose to take the children with them, to what now, Mciver in a crowd of activists, protesters and journalists looking to cause trouble at a detention centre being deemed 'Trump's arresting lawmaker'

I am very clear, pin him on what he does, not on largely fabricated stories designed to constantly chip away at his reputation, that strategy has failed for a decade, it's time for something new!
Click to expand...
Simple question, do you think Trump and his administration are engaging in more illegal acts and acts outside the norm than previous administrations?

Do you feel Trump's administration is a continuation of norms or a deviation from then?

Republicans frequently engaged in what the democratic lawmaker has been charged with without ever facing charges. The rioters at January 6th weren't even charged with what she had been charged with. You realise I'm the USA assault is defined in law as simply unwanted touching? She had been charged for essentially being involved in a little shoving.

Do you also find it acceptable that the head of homeland security didn't know what habeus corpus is?
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Simple question, do you think Trump and his administration are engaging in more illegal acts and acts outside the norm than previous administrations?

Do you feel Trump's administration is a continuation of norms or a deviation from then?

Republicans frequently engaged in what the democratic lawmaker has been charged with without ever facing charges. The rioters at January 6th weren't even charged with what she had been charged with. You realise I'm the USA assault is defined in law as simply unwanted touching? She had been charged for essentially being involved in a little shoving.

Do you also find it acceptable that the head of homeland security didn't know what habeus corpus is?
Click to expand...

Wait hang on, I'm a little confused, there's a lot going on in this comment.

1. Do I believe Trump's administration is acting outside the norm of previous? Well yes and no. No in the sense a lot of his actions are in line with previous presidents, Obamas deportations, Bidens DOJ use etc...
Yes he's acting outside the norm, but in 2 or 3 ways.

- He is what he would call, and what he run on 'draining the swamp'. Previous Dems and Reps have called for government clean up, exposure of fraud and mostly exposure of waste of public money. Trump is actingnon that with DoGE which should be bi partisan, but as a lot of prominent Dems say, they are for it unless Trump does it. Just like the vaccine they refused to take if Trump was in office lol.

- Trump is full.of conflict, is vengeful and petty, and spent a decade being targeted for everything he's done, and a lot of things he didn't. So with a mandate, he feels empowered to say F U and push the rule of law as far as he can, I mean all presidents do, but Trump's situation is unique that he has literally nothing to lose, he's very old, he's hated by many, this is his last few years politically. He has no lifetime of million dollar speeches etc to look forward to, and he's probably bit like Netinyahu, backed into a corner and his reputation only survives if he comes out swinging.

- Finally, Trump has been absolutely targeted by every weapon available to the machine, unlike any other president in history. I feared Obama or Biden more, because of the entirety of the media attempting to go to bat and cover up all their bad stuff, whereas Trump parts and it's a global disaster hate crime. I personally quite like this, but would love the media to be as right as it's passionate.

Are we talking the Mciver case now? Are you claiming no Jan 6ers were charged of a specific assault charge she has been? That's a weird way to look at it.
The Mciver situation looks like a set up to me, despite herself and 2 other Congress members being allowed to tour, and turn up unannounced, why would they bring others who they knew were not, and why would they also bring so many journalists and protestors with them?

From what I know, the guy who was arrested has an invite, but he must designate a visit time, he was stopped at the gate, and all of a sudden there's a scrum of 30 people and 20 journalists?!?!

I don't know where it escalated, whether the regular protectors were involved from the off, or got involved after the initial event, I don't see why it would escalate beyond 'what do you mean this man I brought with me cannot attend, I'm going to address this with your bosses'...

So my opinion would be I'd have to see more of what happened, and more context around the clips. She 100% pushes ICE officials, let's be honest, her hands are out, as she shoves through, but I've not seen whether she's protecting herself from crowd pressure or not.
I'd rather wait for more evidence before commenting on her guilt, I'd certainly like to know more of how it started though!

Btw, i dont think the definition of assault in the USA is unwanted touching.

'Assault is generally defined as an intentional act that puts another person in reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact.'
 
dirty harry said:
Wait hang on, I'm a little confused, there's a lot going on in this comment.

1. Do I believe Trump's administration is acting outside the norm of previous? Well yes and no. No in the sense a lot of his actions are in line with previous presidents, Obamas deportations, Bidens DOJ use etc...
Yes he's acting outside the norm, but in 2 or 3 ways.

- He is what he would call, and what he run on 'draining the swamp'. Previous Dems and Reps have called for government clean up, exposure of fraud and mostly exposure of waste of public money. Trump is actingnon that with DoGE which should be bi partisan, but as a lot of prominent Dems say, they are for it unless Trump does it. Just like the vaccine they refused to take if Trump was in office lol.
Click to expand...
Where did Obama carry out similar acts during the deportations, including ignoring court rulings? Where did the Obama administration say that those being targeted should have no protection under the law and lastly, where did they deport the wrong person whilst making no effort to get them back?

Trump isn't acting on that with DOGE though, he's merely saying he is. That doesn't make it true. What he did with Musk was take someone with close financial ties to the federal government, give him free rein to remove all those government bodies that were obstructing him, shut down all government investigations into Tesla then leave the mess behind for others to clean up. The whole process was to allow Musk to tear apart the agencies that were causing him grief. The act of shutting down agencies is itself not in the presidents power, it's power is with Congress, so what he has done is illegal. It's been well established since Nixon that a president cannot impound or refuse to spend money Congress has allocated. Trump and Musk have done just that. Not exactly draining the swamp by engaging in rampant illegality and corruption is it?

dirty harry said:
- Trump is full.of conflict, is vengeful and petty, and spent a decade being targeted for everything he's done, and a lot of things he didn't. So with a mandate, he feels empowered to say F U and push the rule of law as far as he can, I mean all presidents do, but Trump's situation is unique that he has literally nothing to lose, he's very old, he's hated by many, this is his last few years politically. He has no lifetime of million dollar speeches etc to look forward to, and he's probably bit like Netinyahu, backed into a corner and his reputation only survives if he comes out swinging.
Click to expand...
So this is basically saying what Trump is doing is wrong but it's somehow justified or he's been forced into it. Neither are true. If you are prone to engage in criminal and immoral acts, you are also prone to get called out on it. Trump isn't a victim, he's a perpetrator. There may be hyperbolic speech as there apparently always is now since Obama was branded the antichrist, a Communist, a dictator and not even a natural born citizen by Republicans, with Trump himself being one of the worst culprits in the birther movement. He was pretty happy to dish it out himself long before he became president wasn't he?

dirty harry said:
- Finally, Trump has been absolutely targeted by every weapon available to the machine, unlike any other president in history. I feared Obama or Biden more, because of the entirety of the media attempting to go to bat and cover up all their bad stuff, whereas Trump parts and it's a global disaster hate crime. I personally quite like this, but would love the media to be as right as it's passionate.

Are we talking the Mciver case now? Are you claiming no Jan 6ers were charged of a specific assault charge she has been? That's a weird way to look at it.
The Mciver situation looks like a set up to me, despite herself and 2 other Congress members being allowed to tour, and turn up unannounced, why would they bring others who they knew were not, and why would they also bring so many journalists and protestors with them?

From what I know, the guy who was arrested has an invite, but he must designate a visit time, he was stopped at the gate, and all of a sudden there's a scrum of 30 people and 20 journalists?!?!

I don't know where it escalated, whether the regular protectors were involved from the off, or got involved after the initial event, I don't see why it would escalate beyond 'what do you mean this man I brought with me cannot attend, I'm going to address this with your bosses'...

So my opinion would be I'd have to see more of what happened, and more context around the clips. She 100% pushes ICE officials, let's be honest, her hands are out, as she shoves through, but I've not seen whether she's protecting herself from crowd pressure or not.
I'd rather wait for more evidence before commenting on her guilt, I'd certainly like to know more of how it started though!

Btw, i dont think the definition of assault in the USA is unwanted touching.

'Assault is generally defined as an intentional act that puts another person in reasonable apprehension of imminent harmful or offensive contact.'
Click to expand...
Trump has also engaged in a level of criminality and lacking basic decorum unlike any other president in history. The entirety of the media covering up for Obama and Biden? What planet are you on? The majority of US media (TV, radio and blogs) are right wing. Most popular TV news source is Fox, most popular radio used to be Rush Limbaugh, the most popular blogs and podcasts were supporting Trump. the right wing media eclipses the left wing media. Maybe over here in Europe they would bat for Obama and Biden but in the states that couldn't be further from the truth.

No, none of the Jan 6th rioters were charged just for assault. (For some reason this link embeds weirdly so just remove the space between the "org" and "/".
https://www.npr.org /2021/02/09/965472049/the-capitol-siege-the-arrested-and-their-stories

Feel free to look through that list and find a single case where "assault" is the sole charge. That may form part of the charges for some but they did NOT charge anyone with assault and nothing more. They charged the rioters who engaged in more serious crimes. So the Trump administration sees fit to charge a sitting Congresswoman carrying out a task she is fully allowed to do in her capacity as a member of the House of Representatives. This is on top of prosecuting the mayor of that area and arresting 2 judges. Seeing a trend yet or are you going to keep denying it?

"The man I brought with me" was the local mayor who had said the facility was not adhering to local standards.

General practice is any government prosecution of high ranking people (eg members of Congress) would first go through a grand jury to determine if the arrest is warranted and act as a check on any perceived attempt by the executive to use investigations or prosecutions for political pressure. Guess what they didn't do in any of these cases? Yep, no grand jury, EXACTLY the thing intended to ensure there was no political basis to the prosecutions. Funny that.

Care to describe how the actions of the Congresswoman could class as assault under that definition?
 
@Ragey Erasmus

I'm going to take these 1 by 1.

"Where did Obama carry out similar acts during the deportations"

Seriously? The deporter and cheif! I'm not going to give my view on this, I'm going to use the ACLU's words:
"In 2013, the United States conducted 438,421 deportations. In more than 363,279 of those deportations — over 83 percent — there was no hearing, no judge. Instead, individuals were deported through a cursory and often coercive process where the same presiding immigration officer acted as the prosecutor, judge, and deporter."

The ACLU called Obamas actions making deporting illegal immigrants 'lawless' and called Obama a 'monster' on border policy, they tore apart the Executive Action Plan.

These stories you hear today, accusing Trump of every heinous act under the sun aren't new, I'm not sure if your too young to have seen all these behaviours before, or if you've not followed American politics for very long, or you just don't care about the truth, but here's an example from 2014:

"Veronica V., a mother of three U.S. citizen children who lived in the United States for almost 20 years before her expulsion, was arrested by ICE just beyond the border and coerced into accepting "voluntary" return. After hours alone in a detention cell, Veronica recalls, "I told [the officer] I wanted to talk to my husband. He said, 'You are not going to talk to your husband. What you are going to do is sign this salida voluntaria or you are going to jail.' That is when I signed because they said there were bad people in jail who could do something to hurt me." Even Veronica's lawyer was not allowed to speak with her before Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers dropped her across the border in Mexico."

Sound familiar?

What about Maria De La Paz? A US CITIZEN, wrongly deported because she didn't speak English, spent more than 2 years in Mexico after being refused re entry.

Let's go with the Huff post article:

www.huffpost.com

Exiled: The Obama Administration's Horrifying Deportation Record

Latinos, like me, rewarded Obama with our vote. In 2008: because he warmed our hearts. In 2012: because we believed his second term would free him to get immigration reform done, regardless of Republican obstructionism. But the hope he inspired has spiraled into hopelessness.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

Infact the argument could be made Obama regularly defied courts, requiring legal action, and reversal of some of those actions, and that he left the constitution in a far weaker place, laying the foundation for someone like Trump. In fact wasn't there a famous speech by an aide that claimed "when Congress won't act the president will".

So yes, given the ACLU investigated illegal deportations, ACTUAL US citizens were deported, hundreds of thousands were deported without due process, and the fact Obama constantly battled the courts, I think it's fair to say Trump and Obama are aligned on these behaviours.
 
"Trump isn't acting on that with DOGE though, he's merely saying he is. That doesn't make it true"

This I can get on board with and agree with you, the 'drain the swamp' idea like I said should be bi partisan, but it has been coopted into a self serving agency to use the extreme headlines of waste like trans cats in Istanbul (half heartedly) to distract while Musk damages annoying agencies. Had the Democrats not been so afraid for their fraudulent wealth plans, they should have jumped on board, created an agency from both sides and started the hunt together. Or, they could have done something instead of barking on about it when the opposition for 50 years, similar to China.

BYW Trump has acknowledged throughout he'd need Congress to eliminate agencies, so he's again taken a leaf from Teagons book and did everything but. Reagon famously went after the Do education and energy, Obama went after the Do commerce.

Infact wasn't 'sunsetting' proposed by Bush, to abolish government agencies after certain periods?

This is what I mean by all presidents pushing the boundaries legally
 
Saintjay said:
In other news.....For allegedly showing a flag in support of hezbollah.

www.bbc.co.uk

Kneecap member charged with terror offence

Liam O'Hanna, 27, has been charged after allegedly displaying a flag in support of Hezbollah, the Met Police says.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
The whole thing is ridiculous and I imagine will be waved off with a warning or whatever but
They say the video in question has been taken out of context.
Click to expand...
Is pretty funny, especially as he posted him reading that Hezbollah book calling for genocide against the Jews

I think I read that the charges about calling for MPs to be killed is going to be separate (still being investigated?) be interesting to see what happens with that as I believe that was further in the past and not too long after David Amess was killed
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Where did Obama carry out similar acts during the deportations, including ignoring court rulings? Where did the Obama administration say that those being targeted should have no protection under the law and lastly, where did they deport the wrong person whilst making no effort to get them back?

Trump isn't acting on that with DOGE though, he's merely saying he is. That doesn't make it true. What he did with Musk was take someone with close financial ties to the federal government, give him free rein to remove all those government bodies that were obstructing him, shut down all government investigations into Tesla then leave the mess behind for others to clean up. The whole process was to allow Musk to tear apart the agencies that were causing him grief. The act of shutting down agencies is itself not in the presidents power, it's power is with Congress, so what he has done is illegal. It's been well established since Nixon that a president cannot impound or refuse to spend money Congress has allocated. Trump and Musk have done just that. Not exactly draining the swamp by engaging in rampant illegality and corruption is it?


So this is basically saying what Trump is doing is wrong but it's somehow justified or he's been forced into it. Neither are true. If you are prone to engage in criminal and immoral acts, you are also prone to get called out on it. Trump isn't a victim, he's a perpetrator. There may be hyperbolic speech as there apparently always is now since Obama was branded the antichrist, a Communist, a dictator and not even a natural born citizen by Republicans, with Trump himself being one of the worst culprits in the birther movement. He was pretty happy to dish it out himself long before he became president wasn't he?


Trump has also engaged in a level of criminality and lacking basic decorum unlike any other president in history. The entirety of the media covering up for Obama and Biden? What planet are you on? The majority of US media (TV, radio and blogs) are right wing. Most popular TV news source is Fox, most popular radio used to be Rush Limbaugh, the most popular blogs and podcasts were supporting Trump. the right wing media eclipses the left wing media. Maybe over here in Europe they would bat for Obama and Biden but in the states that couldn't be further from the truth.

No, none of the Jan 6th rioters were charged just for assault. (For some reason this link embeds weirdly so just remove the space between the "org" and "/".
https://www.npr.org /2021/02/09/965472049/the-capitol-siege-the-arrested-and-their-stories

Feel free to look through that list and find a single case where "assault" is the sole charge. That may form part of the charges for some but they did NOT charge anyone with assault and nothing more. They charged the rioters who engaged in more serious crimes. So the Trump administration sees fit to charge a sitting Congresswoman carrying out a task she is fully allowed to do in her capacity as a member of the House of Representatives. This is on top of prosecuting the mayor of that area and arresting 2 judges. Seeing a trend yet or are you going to keep denying it?

"The man I brought with me" was the local mayor who had said the facility was not adhering to local standards.

General practice is any government prosecution of high ranking people (eg members of Congress) would first go through a grand jury to determine if the arrest is warranted and act as a check on any perceived attempt by the executive to use investigations or prosecutions for political pressure. Guess what they didn't do in any of these cases? Yep, no grand jury, EXACTLY the thing intended to ensure there was no political basis to the prosecutions. Funny that.

Care to describe how the actions of the Congresswoman could class as assault under that definition?
Click to expand...
nypost.com

Judge lectures DOJ over Ras Baraka arrest at ICE facility— as NJ Rep. LaMonica McIver is released without bail

A federal magistrate judge lectured federal prosecutors for withdrawing charges against Newark Mayor Ras Baraka after he was arrested during a protest at an ICE facility earlier this month, as a se…
nypost.com nypost.com

www.newsweek.com

Nancy Mace seeks to expel Democrat charged over Newark ICE scuffle

Mace cites claims that McIver assaulted federal officers and interfered at a New Jersey immigration facility.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
Last edited:
"The majority of US media (TV, radio and blogs) are right wing."

Hahahaha come in mate, that's ludicrous lol.

Lots of studies have been done over the last 20 years, and they all show the same thing, Journalism is a left / liberal past time, TV is dominated by leftnof centre politics.

In 2013 there was a study that identified over 1000 journalists political leanings, it showed aprox 40% left, 12% right and 40% centrist. That was 2013, I'm 100% sure this leans further today. This 40% was actually a drop since 2002 also.

Pew did a study on Trump's first 100 days in 2016, and compared it to Obamas... 60% odd negative to Obamasa 20% odd.

Infact another article in 2020 found the vast majority of journalists identified as liberal / left.

A 2017 study compared negative articles about the first 60 days of Obama, Bush and Clinton, and trump 40%, 28%, 28% and 5% hahahaha

A recent study in the UK found nearly 80% of journalists identify as left leaning lol

I could go find plenty more studies, I could present numbers, but we only have to look at Trump's treatment vs Bidens treatment over the last few years.

Are you with a straight face claiming that the 'right leaning media' didn't go on a 4 year tirade promoting and playing back up for Biden? The now acknowledged laptop story, his dementia (and possibly cancer), Hunter lol, literally dropping bags of coke on the white house lawn, how many article criticised Biden for his pardons? I think I saw 90% defending it lol. In contrast Trump farts, there are 64 articles about it smelling nazi like.

Now I can caveat this with a few things, Journalists identifying left might not all be biased in their reporting, Trump bashing being a gold mine in clicks views and engagement, and Trump being super unlikable as a person, but come on, look at top 10 news outlets in the USA...

The New York Times
CNN
Fox News
The Washington Post
NBC News
CBS News
USA Today
The Wall Street Journal
Reuters
Yahoo News

All except Fox are perennial Trump bashers, 3 of them have conceded they defamed Trump, 2 are currently under pressure for it.

I'm happy to discuss individual contexts articles, companies, but to claim right wing is the dominant narrative lol
 

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