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A Political Thread pt. 2

dirty harry said:
I wouldnt say Labour has joined, they have been involved in plenty, even doing it to themselves lol.

But if your going to wade into the swamp for a fight, dont hand your up and coming rival your own shotgun ffs.
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Yeah not saying Labour are innocent but they have been levels below the Tories for years when it comes to gutter politics. There's a reason why they're called the nasty party.

Tbh, I think there's less demand for political messages of joy and hope these days. People seem to want a scrap in the mud.
 
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Saintjay said:
Born in the UK, returned since 16. Really is up to her i guess.

I'm probably less critical of her than if DVM decided he wasn't South African or Lowe as Kiwi
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Born in the UK so her parents could both take advantage of the NHS and grant her citizenship. But she views immigrants as dirt.
 
Rather than develop safe routes so people aren't forced to use smugglers we're going to try and use prison instead when they are already overcrowded and sentences are reduced to ease the prison population.

I don't think it'll work hugely and it's a very temporary short term solution that has been proven not to work, especially for desperate people. If prison was a suitable deterrent then why do we still have crime?
 
Reiser99 said:
Rather than develop safe routes so people aren't forced to use smugglers we're going to try and use prison instead when they are already overcrowded and sentences are reduced to ease the prison population.

I don't think it'll work hugely and it's a very temporary short term solution that has been proven not to work, especially for desperate people. If prison was a suitable deterrent then why do we still have crime?
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On the flip side, if prison isn't a deterrent, why do we still have prisons?

Ultimately something needs to be done against the people who enable this and it needs to be harsh enough to not merit doing it for most.
 
Prisons aren't just deterrents though - and for the bit that they are, it's pretty terrible (and mostly successful only for repeat offences of white-collar crime)
Prisons are about taking those people off the streets, so that they're not doing what they do - be that people trafficking, robbery or whatever.
They're also about rehabilitation, both in terms of addicts who commit crimes, and in terms of those who've "fallen in with the wrong crowd" and get the chance to study, or learn a trade, etc.
But they're also about satisfying society's need for vengeance by punishing people, to prevent vigilante action and retribution.

Of course, in other places, the balance changes. USA, for example, it's about profit first and vengeance 2nd, with barely a fig-leaf thought for rehab or future prevention, with a side-slab of legalised slave labour
 
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Ragey Erasmus said:
On the flip side, if prison isn't a deterrent, why do we still have prisons?

Ultimately something needs to be done against the people who enable this and it needs to be harsh enough to not merit doing it for most.
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To add to what @Which Tyler said, they are more about being seen to do something. However, prisons have existed for thousands of years and haven't stopped crime yet. They are also treating the symptoms not the disease. Treating the disease would involve addressing the causes of why people commit crimes. Yes, there are some bad people out there regardless, but many are driven to crime out of desperation and need. However, society, especially those who exploit poor people, doesn't want to admit that they may be in some way responsible. It's easier to say that person is bad and stuff them in prison.
 
Also reading the article, the only part that would be a crime is the creation of the advertisment (Please correct if I'm wrong). Not sure whether create means making it or uploading it, but it's only relevant if the person lives in the UK. Feel like they might get the odd token conviction but in reality this would be nothing bit a publicity stunt that will have very limited impact.
 
ncurd said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Crackdown on Channel crossing social media adverts

The offence of promoting illegal crossings online would carry a sentence of up to five years in prison.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

5 years in prison feels pretty damn excessive
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Weird one, feels like it should/would already be illegal - making adverts explicitly advertising illegal services

It's just another headline to placate, though, isn't it?
They can only arrest people in the UK, but are tiktok going to be releasing the details of the people making/posting the videos - would they even be in the UK? Wouldn't they be behind a VPN all the time anyway?
 
Reiser99 said:
To add to what @Which Tyler said, they are more about being seen to do something. However, prisons have existed for thousands of years and haven't stopped crime yet. They are also treating the symptoms not the disease. Treating the disease would involve addressing the causes of why people commit crimes. Yes, there are some bad people out there regardless, but many are driven to crime out of desperation and need. However, society, especially those who exploit poor people, doesn't want to admit that they may be in some way responsible. It's easier to say that person is bad and stuff them in prison.
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I recognise there are problems with prison but at the same time there are problems with not having one. Nothing will deter crime 100% of the time.

The root cause if the problem from a smuggling side is that there is a lot of money to be made with seemingly minimal risk to the organisers, it's the people being smuggled who face the risks. This may be a token gesture but ultimately we need to go after the enablers. Attending to fix the root cause of all this (people fleeing persecution, war zones, famine, poverty etc) is a lost cause and we'll never be able to win that.

Nasty though it is, it's not for us to take on everyone from failed states, there are simply too many and there must be a limit or we become a failed state too.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Weird one, feels like it should/would already be illegal - making adverts explicitly advertising illegal services

It's just another headline to placate, though, isn't it?
They can only arrest people in the UK, but are tiktok going to be releasing the details of the people making/posting the videos - would they even be in the UK? Wouldn't they be behind a VPN all the time anyway?
Click to expand...

Opens up the door more to a potential VPN ban
 

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