A Political Thread

[Leonormous Boozer]

He was exposed for it, everyone knew he was pulling the springs he only went into politics to stop himself getting interned.

Or do you all sign up to the romantic notions that make Americans called Smith put money in a pot to pay for bullets to knee cap people

He was in the IRA, helped an oppressed demographic in NI fight against the bigoted, gerrymandered "majority" that had been keeping them down. His tactics weren't right, although the same can be said of the UVF and British Army involved. He's not currently in it though, it doesn't exist like it did back then.

Not it a good time in history and I'm afraid that it could return after the mess Britain has landed itself in.

 

[McTallshort]

He was in the IRA, helped an oppressed demographic in NI fight against the bigoted, gerrymandered "majority" that had been keeping them down. His tactics weren't right, although the same can be said of the UVF and British Army involved.

Not it a good time in history and I'm afraid that it could return after the mess Britain has landed itself in.

Helped? God your naive

 

[j'nuh]

Boo ****ing hoo

**** off, I bet you didn't start your career with £36,000 debt, with interest pulling it up faster than you can get rid of it.

Also needing £20,000-£30,000 start-off capital to buy a home. Paying £300-500 in rent a month until you do.

Also coming through into the ****ing abyss as far as jobs go. I graduated into a recession, and couldn't find a job for a year. Even then, I'm agency staff and have been for nearly three years. And I have a damn good degree; others are finding it much more difficult. The reward of two decades of education, right?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Woah guys, lets calm it down a bit. This is a Political Thread so obviously it's bound to get a bit heated, but let's keep it good natured. After all

 

[Peat]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

This is not in reference to ISIS but to JC's relationship with Gerry Adams etc. I remember reading articles that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist but is now seen as a fighter social justice.

Nelson Mandela paid a price for his crimes, ended his association with terrorism, and went on to to be a symbol of peace and forgiveness. He has transcended the whole terrorist/freedom fighter debate.

Gerry Adams has done none of these things. The best you can say about Adams is he falls on the terrorist/freedom fighter divide and, of course, in most of Britain, he's firmly a terrorist. I can't say I'm the best informed, but as far as I can tell, the the forces he has helped to unleash will scar Northern Ireland for generations to come.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Helped? God your naive

So the republican/catholic community in the North of Ireland is no better off after the war that the IRA fought? Does that mean you think they're still oppressed and gerrymandered out of a voice in genereal elections or that they have never been second class citezens and everything in those six counties is and has always been rosy??

Nelson Mandela paid a price for his crimes, ended his association with terrorism, and went on to to be a symbol of peace and forgiveness. He has transcended the whole terrorist/freedom fighter debate.

Gerry Adams has done none of these things. The best you can say about Adams is he falls on the terrorist/freedom fighter divide and, of course, in most of Britain, he's firmly a terrorist. I can't say I'm the best informed, but as far as I can tell, the the forces he has helped to unleash will scar Northern Ireland for generations to come.

The problem with the general view in Britain is that it's completely ignorant to half of what went on there. Ask your average Brit who sees Addams as a no good terrorist who the UVF or B Specials are and they wouldn't have a clue. Westminster never gave and don't give a **** about the North of Ireland unless forced to by world media.

 

[Peat]

The problem with the general view in Britain is that it's completely ignorant to half of what went on there. Ask your average Brit who sees Addams as a no good terrorist who the UVF or B Specials are and they wouldn't have a clue. Westminster never gave and don't give a **** about the North of Ireland unless forced to by world media.

Aye, there is a lot of ignorance here and Norn Iron's been done many a bad turn by Westminster.

But that doesn't change that he's viewed here as a terrorist - both by the uninformed and the informed - and with a fair degree of reason. Either we accept terrorism simply as acts of terror against us - in which case he's the wrong side of the divide - or we accept terrorism as terrorism, in which case he's a terrorist.

The terrorist/freedom fighter thing is good for reminding people that there's two sides of the story, and that people do these things and support these things for reasons, but it can be taken too far.

 

[profitius]

Jeremy Corbyn always kept the best company....

Is Jeremy Corbyn a socialist? Adams certainly is a hardcore one.

 

[Groundhog]

Where on earth do you get the idea from that Gerry Adams is still in the IRA? A republican but not a dissident one. He's no more in the IRA than me or Bono. I can tell you for a fact he's not welcome in a lot of RIRA or CIRA circles these days.
The fact of the matter is that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are monsters of Britain's own creation. You treat people like dogs and expect them not to bite you for it? Catholics in the north were treated like filth for a long time in the north and that's why they sought protection from the IRA. Most people just want to live their life, and now that they're being allowed to organizations like the IRA have slowly been dying or at least showing their true colors and devolving into thugs and gangs condemned by everyone. The young people of NI for ye most part want nothing to do with their violent past, but I still can't drive into Belfast without seeing the slogan "kill all Taigs" painted on a wall. There's still too many bigots in Northern Irish politics, especially it must be said on the Unionist side as at least Sinn Féin have brought in a new generation and looked to distance themselves from being synonymous with IRA.
Was Gerry Adams a terrorist? Yes. Innocent people who didn't need to die were lost to send a message. Did his violence draw the attention of the world and force the British to the bargains table this securing a more equal future for his people? Also yes. Westminster would have happily continued ignoring what was going on.
Anyway I'm done. Didn't mean to go off on this subject and republicanism is something I'm pretty conflicted about and better off not getting into online.

 

[McTallshort]

**** off, I bet you didn't start your career with £36,000 debt, with interest pulling it up faster than you can get rid of it.

Also needing £20,000-£30,000 start-off capital to buy a home. Paying £300-500 in rent a month until you do.

Also coming through into the ****ing abyss as far as jobs go. I graduated into a recession, and couldn't find a job for a year. Even then, I'm agency staff and have been for nearly three years. And I have a damn good degree; others are finding it much more difficult. The reward of two decades of education, right?

So let's import loads of young educated people from eastern Europe to ensure the middle class kids in the UK have a 30k a year job once they finish their gap year? And what happens to those eastern European countries who lose those young people? Who fills that gap? Why should a graduate in the UK be entitled to have a well paid career on the back of a possibly more intelligent immigrate? Sounds very elitist to me. Drain the intellectual property of one country to ensure the well being of another.

 

[McTallshort]

Where on earth do you get the idea from that Gerry Adams is still in the IRA? A republican but not a dissident one. He's no more in the IRA than me or Bono. I can tell you for a fact he's not welcome in a lot of RIRA or CIRA circles these days.
The fact of the matter is that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are monsters of Britain's own creation. You treat people like dogs and expect them not to bite you for it? Catholics in the north were treated like filth for a long time in the north and that's why they sought protection from the IRA. Most people just want to live their life, and now that they're being allowed to organizations like the IRA have slowly been dying or at least showing their true colors and devolving into thugs and gangs condemned by everyone. The young people of NI for ye most part want nothing to do with their violent past, but I still can't drive into Belfast without seeing the slogan "kill all Taigs" painted on a wall. There's still too many bigots in Northern Irish politics, especially it must be said on the Unionist side as at least Sinn Féin have brought in a new generation and looked to distance themselves from being synonymous with IRA.
Was Gerry Adams a terrorist? Yes. Innocent people who didn't need to die were lost to send a message. Did his violence draw the attention of the world and force the British to the bargains table this securing a more equal future for his people? Also yes. Westminster would have happily continued ignoring what was going on.
Anyway I'm done. Didn't mean to go off on this subject and republicanism is something I'm pretty conflicted about and better off not getting into online.

Gerry Adams didn't force anyone to the table. The IRA like the equally odious UVF/UFF had to come to the table because they were all but finished. There was a top level super grass in its ranks, M15 and special branch were all over them and the world was starting to wake up to how these so called freedom fighters operated in their own communities.

Where the loyalists just as bad? No they were worse and compared to PIRA pretty hopeless as a paramilitary organisation. Was Adams responsible for some very high profile terrorist acts? Yes he was so to compare him to Nelson Mandela is farcical

 

[Peat]

I had another realisation on how this is going to screw the young.

We have a lot of wonderful young minds coming out of university and landing in unskilled labour. If migration decreases, there will be a lot more pressure on the indigenous population to fill the unskilled labour gap, meaning even more graduates in unskilled labour.

And though graduates are not above unskilled labour, the thought that people need to burden themselves with thousands of pounds of debt in tuition fees to be able to land blue-collar work is frightening.

I'm not sure your logic makes sense.

It doesn't matter however many blue collar jobs there are if a graduate is able to find graduate work. Therefore, surely the most important question is "Does the number of jobs that need university graduates and the number of university graduates stack up?" Whether we've got enough cleaners or not is irrelevant to that.

Although I imagine everyone will be doing apprenticeships within 10 years, or going to cheap Dutch uni... oh.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Gerry Adams didn't force anyone to the table. The IRA like the equally odious UVF/UFF had to come to the table because they were all but finished. There was a top level super grass in its ranks, M15 and special branch were all over them and the world was starting to wake up to how these so called freedom fighters operated in their own communities.

Where the loyalists just as bad? No they were worse and compared to PIRA pretty hopeless as a paramilitary organisation. Was Adams responsible for some very high profile terrorist acts? Yes he was so to compare him to Nelson Mandela is farcical

That's so untrue, they may have been defeated but what they did did not amount to nothing. Westminster would have left NI as it was if the only dissenting voice was the SDLP, history shows that Westminster does not givea **** about Ireland and will not take any action regarding it unless it absolutely has to, we sae it in the 1910's and 20's and again obviously the 1960's-1998. It then always goes the smae way, the Irish uprising has some success, Westminster realise they have to take action, send the British Army who neutralise the rebel force, they usually end up ****ing up and killing innocent people along the way be it the Lord Mayor of Cork, hurling fans at bloody sunday, peaceful protesters in the bogside massacre. They then get lambasted in the world media and take the action they should have taken any time in the decade(s) previously.

Violence was obviously not the best way to end the oppression in but when they were fighting without a voice in their own government and trying to get the attention of a government in London that just didn't care about them they had little choice, they got the attention they needed which allowed far better men like John Hume achieve great things. Addams and the IRA went too far many times and any action in the 90's in particular was needless and criminal but what happened in the 60's, 70's and early 80's was the fault of Stormont and Westminster for neglecting 700,000 people they were supposed to stand for.

 

[j'nuh]

So let's import loads of young educated people from eastern Europe to ensure the middle class kids in the UK have a 30k a year job once they finish their gap year? And what happens to those eastern European countries who lose those young people? Who fills that gap? Why should a graduate in the UK be entitled to have a well paid career on the back of a possibly more intelligent immigrate? Sounds very elitist to me. Drain the intellectual property of one country to ensure the well being of another.

This is literally what leave want and what remain are trying to avoid. A skills-based immigration system will result in mostly skilled labour coming into the country, and not enough unskilled. At least freedom of movement allows skilled and unskilled to move equally. Why will the government reverse its decisions on e.g. nursing bursaries, if it can keep hiring them overseas? Better to stop the native population going to university, and work the unskilled jobs instead.

But my point is more that if there is no reward from going to university, it shouldn't be costing students an arm and a leg to go. Students are literally being billed the equivalent of a deposit on a house to go to university, only to land them back in work that they could have gotten without going.

Government should choose one or the other: provide the opportunities that justify the cost of uni, or bring down tuition fees. The Tories have wanted to create a society where hard work is rewarded. Where is the reward from studying any more?

I'm not sure your logic makes sense.

It doesn't matter however many blue collar jobs there are if a graduate is able to find graduate work. Therefore, surely the most important question is "Does the number of jobs that need university graduates and the number of university graduates stack up?" Whether we've got enough cleaners or not is irrelevant to that.

Although I imagine everyone will be doing apprenticeships within 10 years, or going to cheap Dutch uni... oh.

The native population are becoming increasingly educated; more and more people going to university. But you can't run a country off the back of only graduate jobs. You need construction workers, fishers, farmers etc. If they don't come from outside, they have to come from within. See the current picture, where there are heaps of graduates bounding back into unskilled jobs. If there is a further shortfall in labour in unskilled jobs, then the country will have to re-adjust.

 

[j'nuh]

One Labour source said those at the top of the party were livid when it emerged that files on a shared Labour party hard drive relating to the finance bill going through parliament had been deleted as the shadow finance secretary Rob Marris resigned.


An internal email seen by this newspaper said: "Unfortunately, it looks like someone from Rob Marris's office has deleted the vast majority of the finance bill records and notes on each clause from the shared drive."


A Labour source raised the spectre of deselection, adding that it fitted in with a campaign of sabotage. He said: "The finance bill is a hugely important bit of legislation. Under normal times the party's severest punishment to my knowledge for such transgression could go as high as deselection.


"This is because such a bill normally includes important measures involving things like tax avoidance and pensioners and working families.


"For example, in this case his actions could have led to undermining things such as our opposition to the tampon tax, which – if he had his way – would have prevented us from ending it sooner."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rms-length?CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics

Jesus Christ.

What hope does he have of leading such egocentric arses?

(If true, I should add.)

 

[Peat]

The same hope every other party leader has had of leading their egocentric arses?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Farage has resigned as UKIP head ****.

Couldn't make it up.

 

[ncurd]

Farage has resigned as UKIP head ****.

Couldn't make it up.

And to think I thought today would be a quiet day before the Tories ate their young tomorrow in the first round ballot.

 

[Groundhog]

Leave Campaign the equivalent of the guy who somehow ****s on the ceiling of a portaloo at a festival and goes and drops a load of MDMA while everyone else has to deal with their mess for the day.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Nah the Leave campagin reminds me of that bloke you get who tries to convince you to take a lads trip to somewhere like Mexico and when everyone finally agrees to do it says oh but i can't make it despite budgeting everything with 4 people.


Still don't see us leaving the EU though.