A Political Thread

[Vieux Talonneur]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694

You couldn't make this up. Now Trump is proposing arming teachers. That's it turn the class room and schools into a gun battle.

The Americans have got the lunatic they voted in to take over their asylum.

Thing is he's far from alone in this fighting fire with fire argument. Similar sentiments were expressed after the Sutherland Springs church shooting too.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The Americans have got the lunatic they voted in to take over their asylum.

Thing is he's far from alone in this fighting fire with fire argument. Similar sentiments were expressed after the Sutherland Springs church shooting too.

He's got a balancing act. He needs to appear like he's doing something, but also not alienate his core supporters and the NRA. But yes it reflects the whole let's deal with the guns issue by having more guns.

His argument is that only those competent and trained would be allowed to use the firearm to take down a potential shooter. But as Ncurd pointed out what happens if the teacher then turns psychotic themselves. It creates even more issues. It's a mentality I will never understand.

 

[MarkyH]

For all the earlier debate about mental health that point becomes mute when history shows us people without previous health issues, or people who haven't been seen by the health system suddenly turn and kill people. There psychotic tendencies explode in a gun filled rampage. That's why the most important thing is to make it harder for people to get guns, or just sodding ban them (similar to UK laws).

Making more guns available will result in more deaths, giving teachers guns will cause more problems. Do all teachers get trained in firearms? Kindergarten teachers? What if the shooter knows which teacher is trained in firearms so goes to another classroom, or shoots the teacher first. Its totally not going to fix the issue.

More guns to prevent more gun deaths....

 

[big ginger 8]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694

You couldn't make this up. Now Trump is proposing arming teachers. That's it turn the class room and schools into a gun battle.

That's such an outrageous statement I can't help but feel it's meant to be a distraction.

Just yesterday he was talking about stricter purchasing laws and the NRA were saying they'd wait and see as to what they were.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah because a teacher isn't going to have psychotic break one day and shoot an entire classroom.

Arm the kids too

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

His argument is that only those competent and trained would be allowed to use the firearm to take down a potential shooter.

Total b*llshit (from Trump, not Blindside).

Competent and trained to take down a shooter?? Without collateral damage in a hugely stressful situation?? Right, so that's proper police standard training at least. That's not a half day course.

Actually let me correct that. You'd need proper British police standard training.

As Blindside says, Trump's got a balancing act. No-one said it was easy, but that's just bonkers.

 

[McTallshort]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694

You couldn't make this up. Now Trump is proposing arming teachers. That's it turn the class room and schools into a gun battle.

Oh dear. This is the problem with the American approach to guns. They all think if they go to the shooting range enough they will be able to handle any situation presented to them.

Unfortunately its OK to hit 10 out of 10 on a sunny range with a still target with your ear defenders in. Its quite another to be able to deal with a madman armed with a Semi Automatic rifle blasting away at small children. The noise of the gun, the kids screaming, blood, tears, people screaming etc. The vast majority of people would panic like hell in a situation like that so you end up with a panicking teacher also armed with a firearm. Yeah lets see how that works out.

Also how many teachers are going to agree to be armed? My sister is a teacher and there is no chance in the world that she would agree to it and what if the teacher refuses to shoot at the attacker? Will they be sued by the parents? what if the teacher given a terrible situation such as this accidentally shoots one of the children she is trying to protect? Sued again!

Frankly its ******* stupid. People need to realise that this isnt bloody Hollywood. That most people cannot handle situations such as a mass shooting never mind stop one.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Oh dear. This is the problem with the American approach to guns. They all think if they go to the shooting range enough they will be able to handle any situation presented to them.

Unfortunately its OK to hit 10 out of 10 on a sunny range with a still target with your ear defenders in. Its quite another to be able to deal with a madman armed with a Semi Automatic rifle blasting away at small children. The noise of the gun, the kids screaming, blood, tears, people screaming etc. The vast majority of people would panic like hell in a situation like that so you end up with a panicking teacher also armed with a firearm. Yeah lets see how that works out.

Also how many teachers are going to agree to be armed? My sister is a teacher and there is no chance in the world that she would agree to it and what if the teacher refuses to shoot at the attacker? Will they be sued by the parents? what if the teacher given a terrible situation such as this accidentally shoots one of the children she is trying to protect? Sued again!

Frankly its ******* stupid. People need to realise that this isnt bloody Hollywood. That most people cannot handle situations such as a mass shooting never mind stop one.

Top post.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The NYPD have a 28.3% accuracy when firing at another human, and whilst you can raise questions over the amount of training American police have, these are still trained police officers and should be able to handle the pressure.
Imagine what's going to happen to Miss Blkggs the geography teacher if she guns down an innocent student by accident. Not just in terms of legality but on personal terms - these people sign up to be educators not body guards/armed policemen.

 

[Which Tyler]

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966681883206668289?

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966650397002813440?

 

[die_mole]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43149694

You couldn't make this up. Now Trump is proposing arming teachers. That's it turn the class room and schools into a gun battle.

my senior year of high school (2012) my one teacher told us that after the amish school shooting our principal or maybe superintendent (what you would call a dumbledore) asked him if he'd be willing to be armed and prepared to fight in this situation since he was ex-military. that shooting did take place an hour or so from us (pretty close in rural pennsylvania terms) so I could see the reason for panicking but for that to be the first idea they came up with is terrifying. Our teacher pretty much just told him that it was a terrible idea.

 

[Which Tyler]

Snapshot of Trump's notes for the meeting with the schoolchidren:

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Another charity boss resigns, this time at UNICEF:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43162223

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Snapshot of Trump's notes for the meeting with the schoolchidren:

It was a pitiless show by Trump to show he "cared". He needed his script to keep on point, whilst ignoring the massive elephant in the room.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...n-things-wayne-lapierre-blames-after-shooting

Wayne LaPierre of the NRA not surprisingly blaming everyone else but the American's right to own a gun. "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" mentality.

 

[McTallshort]

It was a pitiless show by Trump to show he "cared". He needed his script to keep on point, whilst ignoring the massive elephant in the room.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...n-things-wayne-lapierre-blames-after-shooting

Wayne LaPierre of the NRA not surprisingly blaming everyone else but the American's right to own a gun. "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" mentality.

How about "to stop a bad guy with a gun you just don't give him one in the first place"

 

[Bada-Bing!]

How about "to stop a bad guy with a gun you just don't give him one in the first place"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43164634

It turns out even if the good guy does have a gun he just stands outside and waits outside the school whilst the shooting takes place and does nothing.

 

[Which Tyler]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43164634

It turns out even if the good guy does have a gun he just stands outside and waits outside the school whilst the shooting takes place and does nothing.

Yup - I'm sure that random Geography teacher #3 would have been so much better.

What a world we are living when the answer to the question "How we we stop guns being fired in schools?" is "Let's put more guns in schools."
Takes a real fucking genious (or more likely, sociopath) to come up with that one!



ETA:, and nicked from an ex-military source and mental health nurse (I think) elsewhere:

"There are around 3.2 million professional school teachers in the US. If 20% of them are armed then that means 640,000 of them are taking a gun to school every day.

The incidence of PTSD in the general population of the US is estimated at between 7-8%, which can be extrapolated to suggest that somewhere between 44,800 and 51,200 people would be walking into American schools every morning armed with a weapon and some form of mental disorder.

But wait! If the intent is to concentrate the carriage of guns into a 20% of "gun-adept teachers with military or special training experience," then the incidence of PTSD in the military population must be taken into consideration. According to peer-reviewed research (Psychological Services Vol9, No4, 361-382 (2012)) the prevalence of PTSD among former Servicemen and women who have served in recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan is between 14-16%. This would suggest that between 89,600 and 102,400 people would be walking into school in the US every morning armed with a weapon, a mental disorder and military training!"

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Reading on another forum that apparently a Sheriff had offered to train 50 teachers for free to carry and conceal shoot handguns. He had 150 applications in 24 hours, so it shows that some teachers are for arming themselves.

As well intentioned as the above posts are, guns are in the DNA of the USA and probably always will be so. They won't give up their guns because their history includes being over controlled by a tyrannical government and they defend their right to make sure that doesn't happen again. It would be happening now if Hillary had won. She didn't win and they are still trying to pressure firearm bans far more than when incidents like this happened under Obama.

Until they can be convinced otherwise, there will be no change. Protest, march, throw tantrums etc. and you'll still get the same reaction from these people - the answer will be 'no, I'm not changing, I'm not surrendering my guns, and you can do nothing about it'. If the Democrats were to run with an anti-gun campaign at the next POTUS election they would still lose.

The USA needs to have an honest discussion with itself, involving all sides - the change (if it is to come about) has to come from within.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-43153556

'Extensive' abuse of vulnerable women across the UK.

Sickening.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Reading on another forum that apparently a Sheriff had offered to train 50 teachers for free to carry and conceal shoot handguns. He had 150 applications in 24 hours, so it shows that some teachers are for arming themselves.

As well intentioned as the above posts are, guns are in the DNA of the USA and probably always will be so. They won't give up their guns because their history includes being over controlled by a tyrannical government and they defend their right to make sure that doesn't happen again. It would be happening now if Hillary had won. She didn't win and they are still trying to pressure firearm bans far more than when incidents like this happened under Obama.

Until they can be convinced otherwise, there will be no change. Protest, march, throw tantrums etc. and you'll still get the same reaction from these people - the answer will be 'no, I'm not changing, I'm not surrendering my guns, and you can do nothing about it'. If the Democrats were to run with an anti-gun campaign at the next POTUS election they would still lose.

The USA needs to have an honest discussion with itself, involving all sides - the change (if it is to come about) has to come from within.

I don't think there is any delusion here that guns are going to be banned anytime soon. As you said it's so ingrained within the USA DNA. But it just showing the total and utter hypocrisy within all levels of American society or their total nativity when it comes to protecting their right to bear arms - just look at LaPierre's comments and the paranoia that is reeking from the right. 17 people in a school have been shot by an 18 year old who bought an AR 15 semi automatic weapon legally (same weapon that was used at Sandy Hook and the recent Las Vegas massacre) . Yet he blames everything from the FBI, the media, European Style socialists in the Democrats, not having armed teachers on site etc but of course not that there is absolutely no excuse/need for any citizen to be able buy or own a semi automatic assault rife. There is just no common sense coming out post Parkland from those in the pockets of the NRA. The armed officer who just resigned for not going into Parkland is just another scapegoat. Trump accusing him of being a coward, when it ignores how many of the proposed trained 20% who could have concealed weapons would also react exactly the same and freeze in the same situation. What chance would they have anyway against a semi automatic weapon and it spraying bullets? Also Cruz was wearing body armour. Would they start having all teachers and students wear body armour put under their desk or carry them in case of an attack?

I was watching an interview with Lucinda Roy an Ex Pat Brit on Sky News who was the last teacher to teach Cho (who killed 32) at Virginia Tech who has written on her experiences and differences with U.K.. She highlighted the minority in America who are convinced that their Federal Government is out to get them and hence why they stockpile weapons in the event of a stand off. It reflects a mentality that US Government isn't really a "Government of the people, by the people, for the people...." to quote Abe. I also thought it was interesting what she said that teachers are scared to report students they suspect were unstable and could pose a threat because they really wouldn't get the help they needed and would end up back in their class room. So they feared retribution.