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BBC SPORT -Edwards backs Six Nations revamp

Discussion in '2017 RBS Six Nations' started by Rugby News, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. Rugby News

    Rugby News Guest

    Edwards backs Six Nations revamp

    Wales assistant coach Shaun Edwards says it could be time for the Six Nations to adopt bonus points.

    Edwards argues that giving teams bonus points to chase encourages adventure.

    "It could be time to tinker with the format of the Six Nations," Edwards wrote in the Guardian.

    "If bonus points were awarded for four tries and those bonus points helped settle the title, there would be no argument against a bit of adventure."

    Edwards, who is also the head coach of Wasps, says that the bonus point system has improved every competition that has adopted it.

    "In every other tournament, the World Cup included, bonus points are awarded - one for scoring four tries and one for a losing side which keeps the gap down to seven points. The Six Nations gives two points for a win, one for a draw - and that's that," Edwards added.

    Edwards points out that since 1994 the Six Nations title is decided on points difference if two or more teams finish on the same match points. Before that year the title was shared by tied teams.

    The former rugby league great argues that system encourages teams to play safe even if they have a comfortable lead in a match, with penalties more likely to be taken as 'safer' kicks at goal to pad the winning margin rather than going for more tries.

    "Say a team has scored a couple of tries and has a reasonable lead when, with 10 minutes to go, it is awarded a kickable penalty," Edwards said.

    "The captain will signal to the posts, because he wants to widen the margin of victory. There's no argument with that.

    "But if bonus points were awarded... the win is safe, so hoof the ball into the corner, win the line-out, drive the rolling maul over the goal line and, with eight or nine minutes to go, there is still time to think about a fourth try.

    "The spectacle would be improved, as it would if the opposition had the extra incentive of clawing its way back to within seven points.

    "Every Saturday bonus points add to the spice of the Guinness Premiership. Perhaps it could be time for the Six Nations to give them a go."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/sport1/hi/r...lsh/7258303.stm
     
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  3. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    So what are your feelings on this, do you agree with him or is he talking through his hole, I expect more of the latter but let's see what the rest of you think?
     
  4. MunsterMan

    MunsterMan Guest

    But you could win the grandslam and not win the six nations?!?
     
  5. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    That's a point I've made many a time previously when the issue has come up, unlikely and all a scenario as it is tp happen but that's neither here nor there, unless they include a bonus point for the Grand Slam then it still remains a non-starter for me.
     
  6. stormmaster1

    stormmaster1 Guest



    so give 1 or 2 bonus points for a grand slam and there you have it. TBH i don't thinnk the bonus points will make an expansive style of play any more or less likely, but it will give something for the losing side to chase, and would have an impact on the final table. IMO it's made no difference at all to the typical GP style of play. Winning is always 1st priority in a pressurised match (i think most rugby test matches count as that) and style will always come second. i won't have any complaints if they use bonus points, but just don't think it will affect how anyone plays rugby, unless it encourages the weaker team to play less exansive to keep the game tighter.
     
  7. danny

    danny Guest

    If Edwards was treated like TRAITORS used to be treated he wouldnt be able to talk such shite cos he would be staring at four small walls in the tower waiting for his punishment.
     
  8. nick_w

    nick_w Guest

    A tad medieval, but ten points for originality.

    Anyways, what damage would it do the six nations if the bonus point system was brought in. Ok, technically, a team could win the six nations and a separate team could win the grand slam, but where are bragging rights likely to remain in such an unlikely situation? looking at it in perspective, if it was the bonus point situation was in place now it would leave the following table:
    France- 7
    Wales- 4
    Ireland- 4
    England- 4
    Italy- 2
    Scotland- 0

    (this is using the point system of 4 points for 4 tries or more and 1 point for losing within 7 points.)

    I can't be arsed to work out the tries, but you can see that it makes the table look a little different, especially between Scotland and Italy, and look at the lead France would have if the bonus system was in place now.

    I think that if this system was put in next year, tactics when it comes to individual games will change as every team will see an opportunity to get points out of every game.
     
  9. And if Rob Andrew had half a brain and a set of balls, he'd be in the England coaching setup. It's professional sport, grow up and get over it.

    Back on topic - I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to think of introducing it to be honest. I think the bonus point system has been a great success in all the competitions it has been made part of. Adds a bit of tactical spice as well - if you have scored 3 tries but the game is close, do you close up your game or keep playing and go for the extra point? It does just mean there is usually something to play for for both sides right up until the final whistle.
     
  10. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    A tad medieval, but ten points for originality.

    Anyways, what damage would it do the six nations if the bonus point system was brought in. Ok, technically, a team could win the six nations and a separate team could win the grand slam, but where are bragging rights likely to remain in such an unlikely situation? looking at it in perspective, if it was the bonus point situation was in place now it would leave the following table:
    France- 7
    Wales- 4
    Ireland- 4
    England- 4
    Italy- 2
    Scotland- 0

    (this is using the point system of 4 points for 4 tries or more and 1 point for losing within 7 points.)

    I can't be arsed to work out the tries, but you can see that it makes the table look a little different, especially between Scotland and Italy, and look at the lead France would have if the bonus system was in place now.

    I think that if this system was put in next year, tactics when it comes to individual games will change as every team will see an opportunity to get points out of every game.
    [/b][/quote]

    France would be on 9 points, while Wales would be on 8, with Ireland and England both on 5.
     
  11. SmokeyMonkey

    SmokeyMonkey Guest

  12. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    and there was me thinking it was only a theory, hadn't reaslised that it worked out like that in 2002.

    Since introduced from 1994, the championship has been decided on points difference on 6 occasions and of those 6 only 1 championship would have been decided any differently and that was last year, but regardless of the advantage we would have got I'd still be in favour of keeping the current system.

    Again last year is a perfect example of why the current system works, we had the championship being decided in the last play of the game in Paris, how much more excitement could you want, however, had the championship been decided by the bp system then the French Scottish match would have been irrelevant.
     
  13. danny

    danny Guest

    And if Rob Andrew had half a brain and a set of balls, he'd be in the England coaching setup. It's professional sport, grow up and get over it.

    Back on topic - I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to think of introducing it to be honest. I think the bonus point system has been a great success in all the competitions it has been made part of. Adds a bit of tactical spice as well - if you have scored 3 tries but the game is close, do you close up your game or keep playing and go for the extra point? It does just mean there is usually something to play for for both sides right up until the final whistle.
    [/b][/quote]

    To be fair I would love to see Edwards involved with England. I dont really want him in the tower. Ashton on the other hand???
     
  14. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    I like the idea of bonus points. Ireland and Italy's fightbacks were superb in the last round. Did they deserve a point at least? Yes. Did they get one? No and that just ain't right! :(
     
  15. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    It's about winning a trophy, not giving points to losers.
     
  16. SmokeyMonkey

    SmokeyMonkey Guest

    Do you think England deserved a BP for their 'performance' vs Wales? :huh:
     
  17. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    *facepalms*

    In any case, if the risk of a losing bonus point was there, Wales would have probably scored a final try to get out of reach so remember, it would go both ways...
     
  18. nick_w

    nick_w Guest

    A tad medieval, but ten points for originality.

    Anyways, what damage would it do the six nations if the bonus point system was brought in. Ok, technically, a team could win the six nations and a separate team could win the grand slam, but where are bragging rights likely to remain in such an unlikely situation? looking at it in perspective, if it was the bonus point situation was in place now it would leave the following table:
    France- 7
    Wales- 4
    Ireland- 4
    England- 4
    Italy- 2
    Scotland- 0

    (this is using the point system of 4 points for 4 tries or more and 1 point for losing within 7 points.)

    I can't be arsed to work out the tries, but you can see that it makes the table look a little different, especially between Scotland and Italy, and look at the lead France would have if the bonus system was in place now.

    I think that if this system was put in next year, tactics when it comes to individual games will change as every team will see an opportunity to get points out of every game.
    [/b][/quote]

    France would be on 9 points, while Wales would be on 8, with Ireland and England both on 5.
    [/b][/quote]

    my mistake, was never one for simple maths!

    Very interesting case study as to whether the bonus point system would work.

    It really is a double edge sword, illustrated by what some people are already saying here. Thing is, at the same time as teams like France are trying to get the extra bonus point by scoring 4 tries in a game, is there a threat of teams like Scotland or Italy tightening up their game to be mega defensive in an attempt to earn a bonus point by staying close to their opponents? I know some of the best games are the closest, but if it turns into an all out tustle on the half way line all game long, is it going to be worth it.

    (P.S. does that make any sense to anyone? all comprehensiveness on my part has gone to s**t due to the Friday factor.)
     
  19. SmokeyMonkey

    SmokeyMonkey Guest

    Personally, I think the incentive of a win over a (let's be honest here) age old rival (read:enemy) is enough to give us entralling games. Bonus points aren't needed here. There's enough evidence against it I think. :)
     
  20. Vambo

    Vambo Guest

    Nah... don't see there being any need to introduce a bonus point system in the 6Nations .

    Indeed!
     
  21. polonius

    polonius Guest

    Here's another angle from which to look ... A ticket for a match costs a minimum of around £45~£50.

    Customers deserve a bit more entertainment for this kind of money and now the professional age means much fitter players (and half-a-sideful of substitutes), why not have bonus points and 45 minutes each half.
     
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