Champions Cup - Pool 3, Round 4 (Leicester, Toulon, Scarlets, Ulster)

[gaston le gaff]

Although i have no liking for Mon. Armitage i do think this ban is not justified. Castro takes the mike in front of all the press and goes off like a mad man at Leicester and Cockers, and gets 10,000 fine, small change for these guys,and a suspended sentance, Armitage answers a few foul mouthed supporters, (i have played the game for years and comments about wifes and mothers etc i have heard them all but there is a limit to everything, heckling is one thing which most can handle, abuse towards ones family is another) Armitage is no angel but 12 weeks is very harsh, what he said should be printed, then all will know and can make up their own minds, but once again the disiplinary panel are protecting themselves, i just hopê this is not pointing a finger at Toulon and their players, everything, must be on a level playing field and not directed at Toulon because they are by far the best team out there,( that hurt saying that). Players have been banned 12 weeks for gouging is this as bad, i personally do not thing so, Armitage as i said is no angel but!!!!! everybody should get the justice they deserve but i think this time it's over the top.

 

[munstermuffin]

Although i have no liking for Mon. Armitage i do think this ban is not justified. Castro takes the mike in front of all the press and goes off like a mad man at Leicester and Cockers, and gets 10,000 fine, small change for these guys,and a suspended sentance, Armitage answers a few foul mouthed supporters, (i have played the game for years and comments about wifes and mothers etc i have heard them all but there is a limit to everything, heckling is one thing which most can handle, abuse towards ones family is another) Armitage is no angel but 12 weeks is very harsh, what he said should be printed, then all will know and can make up their own minds, but once again the disiplinary panel are protecting themselves, i just hopê this is not pointing a finger at Toulon and their players, everything, must be on a level playing field and not directed at Toulon because they are by far the best team out there,( that hurt saying that). Players have been banned 12 weeks for gouging is this as bad, i personally do not thing so, Armitage as i said is no angel but!!!!! everybody should get the justice they deserve but i think this time it's over the top.

Gaston while I agree with a lot you say I think the 2 key things are 1. He shouldn't engage in it and these guys are professional and 2. It's a repeat offence so he's done it before and not learnt.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I agree twelve weeks seems kind of excessive. Are they really saying his offence is the same severity as eye gouging? I don't think so. Sticks and stones and all that

 

[gaston le gaff]

i realise all this and i as i said he is no angel but!!!! gouging and this a little different,( didn't Dupuy get 12 weeks for gouging) remember your beloved Trevor Brennan (not sure i got the family name right) he went into the crowd and thumped someone now that does deserve punishment, mind you at the time i though this actions although wrong were justified to a certain degree, i do think this is a little pointed at Toulon and their players. We are all aware that you should not engage, but if someone talks about your wife or mother in someway really awful and i have heard this as a player you walk on by!!! i certainly would not!!!! so i do honestly think that the words said should be known to all then no one is 2nd guessing!!!!!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I suppose Top 14 crowds are different but I haven't heard anyone say things about a player's family during a game, hell even saints players don't tend to get abuse thrown at them even Callum achey-breaky arm Clark didn't get abuse thrown at him, although some comments might have been said. Still think it was Armitage thinking he is going to do one on a big English club in England (look at his pre match comments) and he couldn't handle losing (And playing poorly) .

2 things lead to this 12 weeks ban
1) He said not guilty (pleading guilty cuts the ban in half) so 6 weeks.
2) He is a repeat offender. That was a added 4 weeks.

 

[Irishkid]

Exactly he gets banned every two minutes for something dodgy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Toulon considering suing tigers fans

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...igers-supporters-over-Delon-Armitage-row.html

Why don't they just say what the Tigers fans supposedly said then.

IMO if it was bad it would already have been mentioned in Quotes by someone in Toulon, instead they're just saying "Abuse" which can include anything in this day and age.

 

[goodNumber10]

Boudjellal says they would sue them for false testimony, not for what they say.

"We may even sue those two English supporters, for their false testimonies."

just more hot air from the main man... Armitage seems to have got what he's deserved for a long time.

I agree twelve weeks seems kind of excessive. Are they really saying his offence is the same severity as eye gouging? I don't think so. Sticks and stones and all that

he's alleged to have called a bunch of children "inbred c*nts" and offered to fight someone outside.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I suppose Top 14 crowds are different but I haven't heard anyone say things about a player's family during a game, hell even saints players don't tend to get abuse thrown at them even Callum achey-breaky arm Clark didn't get abuse thrown at him, although some comments might have been said.

????
Welford Rd and Castle Grim are notorious for abuse thrown at travelling players.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

????
Welford Rd and Castle Grim are notorious for abuse thrown at travelling players.

And what is classed as Abuse?

I have never heard anyone have a go at a players family, Race etc.

 

[Every Time Ref]

he's alleged to have called a bunch of children "inbred c*nts" and offered to fight someone outside.

Presumably more than "alleged", as he's been convicted. I'm not defending him, I'm just looking at the scale of punishment, and yes I understand that as a repeat offender he should get a longer sentence, but it still seems wrong that any verbal offence should carry the same weight as gounging an eye. I don't know, maybe really that's more of an argument to have harsher punishments for gouging? Can't say I'd be against that.

 

[gaston le gaff]

before this gets out of hand, what the papers say and what actually is said are two entirely diferent things, it seems that to take the evidence of 2 supporters without recordings or TV DOC and little evidence SEEMS VERY HEAVY INDEED. if there is proof fair enough, if that is the case present it in the hearing have it recorded and then print it word by word and put it on the website, then you have the truth!!!! this seems not quite cricket chaps!!!!! Good job Toulon did not sign Carter or Armitage would have got a
LIFE BAN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

before this gets out of hand, what the papers say and what actually is said are two entirely diferent things, it seems that to take the evidence of 2 supporters without recordings or TV DOC and little evidence SEEMS VERY HEAVY INDEED. if there is proof fair enough, if that is the case present it in the hearing have it recorded and then print it word by word and put it on the website, then you have the truth!!!! this seems not quite cricket chaps!!!!! Good job Toulon did not sign Carter or Armitage would have got a
LIFE BAN!!!!!!!!!!!

But isn't that what you are doing as well?

 

[tituslechmakus]

Presumably more than "alleged", as he's been convicted. I'm not defending him, I'm just looking at the scale of punishment, and yes I understand that as a repeat offender he should get a longer sentence, but it still seems wrong that any verbal offence should carry the same weight as gounging an eye. I don't know, maybe really that's more of an argument to have harsher punishments for gouging? Can't say I'd be against that.

Honestly, I was wondering, from and English point of view, don't you find the EPRC a bit unfair with French clubs, always giving them longer sentences ? It was originally with ERC but seems to continue with EPRC ... I mean 12 weeks for an argument with fans ??? When O'Conell go nothing for a kick in the head 2 years ago ...

 

[gaston le gaff]

But isn't that what you are doing as well?

no not at all and when i hear you say i have never heard abuse like that!!!!! you are able to hear absolutely everything from where you sit or stand, incredible all 25,000, you should work for MI5. my comments are without prejudice and interesting, you for example just try and wind people up with little success, school boy days for me are a long and distant past, so hopefully i'm out of here.

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Honestly, I was wondering, from and English point of view, don't you find the EPRC a bit unfair with French clubs, always giving them longer sentences ? It was originally with ERC but seems to continue with EPRC ... I mean 12 weeks for an argument with fans ??? When O'Conell go nothing for a kick in the head 2 years ago ...

Please do not write thnigs like that its the same as taking the lamb to the slaughter, I completely agree with you but wait for the onslaught it will come my friend.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

no not at all and when i hear you say i have never heard abuse like that!!!!! you are able to hear absolutely everything from where you sit or stand, incredible all 25,000, you should work for MI5. my comments are without prejudice and interesting, you for example just try and wind people up with little success, school boy days for me are a long and distant past, so hopefully i'm out of here.

Not really because you were going on about insults to family members yet there has been nothing mentioned about that.

I have heard supporters swearing at players but never heard them direct anything towards them about there family etc. obviously I can't hear everyone but I have sat pretty much everywhere at one point or another and so you get an idea of what certain supporters are like in each area but have yet to hear someone mention any thing about a players family at all.

All you are doing is basing your evidence on what Toulon are saying (who have yet to given details into what the Supporters were saying), I'm going off what Leicester are saying we are both as bad as each other.

 

[Big Ewis]

the mere fact, fundamentally, a crowd can interact and play a role in a player's long-term, multiple months banning, and that in his own league when back home, is farcical. Players are without a voice, protection from this sort of clear abuse. They're defenseless, and if they reply in kind, which some naturally, inevitably will (and have), they'll get in trouble and the crowd, i.e. the very *initiators*, get away with throwing absolute verbal poison gratuitously and with no consequence (unless Boudjellal finds a way this time ? would be a first in pro sports...).
Again, the very concept some scum crowd members will change the outcome ...of a pro athlete's season ?? - is laughable. That's exactly, exactly like poking someone every now and then, and when they look back at you angrily and growl the one time, you go to the cops and whine like a ***** to get him in trouble. Pathetic. Not every Rugby Union player can be the Dalai Lama and kumbaya I must find my center your angry words are but hot wind, wake the hell up. He just answered back to a couple of lowest breed assholes, should've been left there.

There's no doubt this is furiously ridiculous and unfair, but raises issues I've mentioned that need solving. This can't go on forever, do something about your fkng crowds. Players WILL continue to answer back eventually, not all are the Virgin Marry, and if the solution is to enforce such severe sanctions on players as an example for others then that's wrong too, it basically means "just stfu every single time you hear people vomit their guts at you, or we'll freaking mur-der you, mmkay ? mmkay...".

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will add, to make it clear, I hope deeply, for the right reasons not because I'm supporting my own players, that the right thing will occur and Boudjellal will manage to identify the two culprits and this can happen. It would be a first in sports, and something I've been wanting to see for a long time. The initiators should pay, goes without saying; would be absolutely excellent. And would serve as something of an example for further situations, maybe fans can keep their filthy mouths shut the way they should be. Easy to swear at guys when you're flocking with thousands of other sheep at just one powerless individual whose every actions and words are scrutinized.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But then what if Toulon are over exaggerating the issue, What if the "Abuse" is mainly jeering etc that Armitage has taken to heart wouldn't been the first thing he has tried to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

What then will crowds have to supporter in silence will the high balls followed by "ohhhhhhhhh" be banned.

I'm waiting till the full report is released, but ATM I'm not taking the words of the Toulon representatives at all. As said if it was so bad why not say what the supporters were doing.

Will be interesting to see what Boudjellal does this time as he has been all smoke no fire recently.

If the crowd were found to be racist, abusive towards his family or overly nasty to Delon then fine.

 

[Tony Manx]

............ or overly nasty to Delon.......

Now that did make me laugh!!!!

 

[Every Time Ref]

the mere fact, fundamentally, a crowd can interact and play a role in a player's long-term, multiple months banning, and that in his own league when back home, is farcical. Players are without a voice, protection from this sort of clear abuse. They're defenseless, and if they reply in kind, which some naturally, inevitably will (and have), they'll get in trouble and the crowd, i.e. the very *initiators*, get away with throwing absolute verbal poison gratuitously and with no consequence (unless Boudjellal finds a way this time ? would be a first in pro sports...).
Again, the very concept some scum crowd members will change the outcome ...of a pro athlete's season ?? - is laughable. That's exactly, exactly like poking someone every now and then, and when they look back at you angrily and growl the one time, you go to the cops and whine like a ***** to get him in trouble. Pathetic. Not every Rugby Union player can be the Dalai Lama and kumbaya I must find my center your angry words are but hot wind, wake the hell up. He just answered back to a couple of lowest breed assholes, should've been left there.

There's no doubt this is furiously ridiculous and unfair, but raises issues I've mentioned that need solving. This can't go on forever, do something about your fkng crowds. Players WILL continue to answer back eventually, not all are the Virgin Marry, and if the solution is to enforce such severe sanctions on players as an example for others then that's wrong too, it basically means "just stfu every single time you hear people vomit their guts at you, or we'll freaking mur-der you, mmkay ? mmkay...".

- - - Updated - - -

will add, to make it clear, I hope deeply, for the right reasons not because I'm supporting my own players, that the right thing will occur and Boudjellal will manage to identify the two culprits and this can happen. It would be a first in sports, and something I've been wanting to see for a long time. The initiators should pay, goes without saying; would be absolutely excellent. And would serve as something of an example for further situations, maybe fans can keep their filthy mouths shut the way they should be. Easy to swear at guys when you're flocking with thousands of other sheep at just one powerless individual whose every actions and words are scrutinized.

I kind of agree, it is unfair that a player isn't allowed to just snap and shout back when abused - but if we allow any players to do that, we open the floodgates to allow all sorts of uncontrolled verbal fighting between fans and players - I think we can all agree we don't want that, so the sacrifice we have to make is that of the players' "right to reply", which is unfortunate but so it goes.