Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[munstermuffin]

I think that is a minority of players leaving due to that issue, who were victims of a violent crime. But that isn't the sole reason why they leave. If that was the case why hasn't Rohan Janse van Rensburg requested to leave immediately after he was held hostage in his own home and was robbed and tied up??

Money is the biggest issue for players leaving, especially the white players, they need financial stability for as long as we will have racial transformation (Quota) systems in SA.

As I said I'm just saying it is an issue. Like Ruan P said as much in a recent interview. I don't doubt for 1 minute money is a big part of reason. Just there is alot of South Africans who move with no intention of ever moving home.

 

[Gavin]

The new Pro14 league will kick-off in the first week of September and will comprise two conferences of seven teams. Each conference will have one Scottish side, one South African side, one Italian side and two each from Wales and Ireland.

The winners of each conference will qualify automatically for the semi-finals, while the teams placed in second and third in each conference will be drawn together in play-offs for the remaining two semi-final places.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40649652

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40649652

Thanks for that. He is pretty much regurgitating an article from last week. The new info is:

- 6 year deal
-£6million a year extra TV money compared to £11milion previously mooted.

6 years doesn't sound like dipping your toes in to test the water. It sounds more like putting on a snorkel and jumping in with both feet. It'd be good if there was that sort of serious long term commitment to take them up to RWC 2023.

 

[profitius]

Thanks for that. He is pretty much regurgitating an article from last week. The new info is:

- 6 year deal
-£6million a year extra TV money compared to £11milion previously mooted.

I think the £6m is half of the SA TV deal. Their 2 teams get to keep the other half.

 

[profitius]

Not to wake the big elephant in the room. But a lot of players leave South Africa due to issues like safety of their families, less crime rates and things like that. It isn't for money alone.

Stefan Molyneux's latest guest is a South African talking about how bad SA has become. Good listen.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Stefan Molyneux's latest guest is a South African talking about how bad SA has become. Good listen.

Hahaha, wait, let me just get back on my chair...

I only watched the first 3 seconds, and then realised, that this is not worth my time, or actually anyones.

The guest speaker, Mr. Steve Hofmeyr, is a celeb yes, (he's the guy that is singing the Bulls legendary song). But his political views are immensely skewed, and me, as a fellow WAM (White Afrikaans Male) is most of the time ashamed at what drivel this guy says.

You guys should take anything he says with a bag of salt, because a pinch just won't do.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Not touching that.. interview. I don't know any far right 'celebs' thinking they speak for everyone from the UK or I'd compare them to Steve 'wie's jou pappa?' Hofmeyr. A lot he says I agree with, a lot I don't. Lets just leave it at that.

On the Pro 14. Splitting into conferences makes the red flags wave for me. Its what is killing SR. It depends on how exactly its handled I suppose.

What I don't get is that the Pro 14 is starting soon and SR has just ended yet the Cheetahs have named a full strnegth (or near enough) for the Currie Cup opener; 15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 Rosco Soecman, 13 Francois Venter (captain), 12 William Small-Smith, 11 Raymond Rhule, 10 Niel Marais, 9 Shaun Venter, 8 Henco Venter, 7 Uzair Cassiem, 6 Niell Jordaan, 5 Reniel Hugo, 4 Carl Wegner, 3 Aranos Coetzee, 2 Joseph Dweba, 1 Charles Marais
Substitutes: 16 Ox Nche, 17 Reinach Venter, 18 Rynier Bernardo, 19 Chris Dry, 20 Zee Mkhabela, 21 JW Jonker, 22 Cecil Afrika

I think on the positive, it seems the Cheetahs are keeping a hold on most of their better players. I see only Mohoje and Petersen missing. Not major losses. I think Torsten van Jaarsveld is still injured. One would think or at least hope that they would be able to build up given enough capital into a competitive side.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think that is a minority of players leaving due to that issue, who were victims of a violent crime. But that isn't the sole reason why they leave. If that was the case why hasn't Rohan Janse van Rensburg requested to leave immediately after he was held hostage in his own home and was robbed and tied up??

Money is the biggest issue for players leaving, especially the white players, they need financial stability for as long as we will have racial transformation (Quota) systems in SA.

As I said I'm just saying it is an issue. Like Ruan P said as much in a recent interview. I don't doubt for 1 minute money is a big part of reason. Just there is alot of South Africans who move with no intention of ever moving home.

Hahaha, wait, let me just get back on my chair...

I only watched the first 3 seconds, and then realised, that this is not worth my time, or actually anyones.

The guest speaker, Mr. Steve Hofmeyr, is a celeb yes, (he's the guy that is singing the Bulls legendary song). But his political views are immensely skewed, and me, as a fellow WAM (White Afrikaans Male) is most of the time ashamed at what drivel this guy says.

You guys should take anything he says with a bag of salt, because a pinch just won't do.

Didin't watch that but my original comment was only based on a few interviews from different South Africans based in Europe who have said they won't return home.
Ruan Piennar being the latest for example who has said he will keep his family base in Belfast and it is here he wished to live when retired.
Also CJ Stander is after buying a house here and seems certain to remain here although I know that is nothing to do with safety more he has settled in Limerick likeit was a destiny.

 

[TRF_heineken]

As I said I'm just saying it is an issue. Like Ruan P said as much in a recent interview. I don't doubt for 1 minute money is a big part of reason. Just there is alot of South Africans who move with no intention of ever moving home.

Didin't watch that but my original comment was only based on a few interviews from different South Africans based in Europe who have said they won't return home.
Ruan Piennar being the latest for example who has said he will keep his family base in Belfast and it is here he wished to live when retired.
Also CJ Stander is after buying a house here and seems certain to remain here although I know that is nothing to do with safety more he has settled in Limerick likeit was a destiny.

Fair enough, but I can also point to several players who went to the NH and returned to SA, and as retired rugby players are still living in South Africa. off the top of my head, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Thinus Delport, Derick Hougaard, Fourie Du Preez, Werner Swanepoel, Gary Botha...

 

[saulan]

Stefan Molyneux's latest guest is a South African talking about how bad SA has become. Good listen.

That guy is one of the biggest idiots in our country, anything he says should be completely disregarded. We live in our own country and know what it's like. They guy stirs up anger and racism (and is a massive racist) and does no good.

The idea of South Africa as this massive crime hub where you are never safe is a massive stereotype and a complete disregard for the actual facts. I think we are often regarded as a country in a war with criminals (which we are in a way, but not the physical kind, the corrupt kind, but that's what a lot of first world countries deal with as well), but it's definitely not this terrible war zone that everyone is fleeing which you seem to have in your mind. Yes we have worse crime stats than first world countries, but honestly, most of the crime is (unfortunately in most senses) located in our informal areas where tourists wouldn't venture to anyway, and none of us would venture to either.

As I said I'm just saying it is an issue. Like Ruan P said as much in a recent interview. I don't doubt for 1 minute money is a big part of reason. Just there is alot of South Africans who move with no intention of ever moving home.

You have said this multiple times, Ruan P is not the spokesperson for the majority of South Africans, nor is he the spokesperson of all South Africans who go to the UK to play rugby. I could do the same and say that the Kings scrumhalf's opinion is what all the players believe:

"Most of the South Africans want to earn their pounds or their Euros and I think playing in Europe, playing against Munster or Ulster, the big teams from Ireland or Scotland or Wales can certainly put your foot in the door a bit.

"I've got only about four, five, six years left - you have to make your pounds or your Euros. Playing against the European teams week in, week out should hopefully make a way for us to get overseas just by playing against the teams there."

Source: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/van-rooyen-sa-teams-would-prefer-pro12-20170711

I know many South Africans who have headed to the UK as well, I have thought about it too. But it's not because I fear crime, it's because a place like London has greater opportunities financially and experience wise that will most likely result in us being able to grow a lot faster and earn a lot more as well. That's too be expected moving from a third world country to a country which has one of the economic hubs of the world.

If you come to South Africa on the tours, as you said you most likely would as the teams physio, I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[mdaclarke]

My uncle lives in Cape Town and now has South African Citizenship, from what he says to me, the country is nothing like as bad as the media portrays. If anything it sounds better and safer than England. Makes me almost want to move there.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

First official statement by Pro12. Looks a done deal.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/2017/07/19/statement-pro12-talks-with-south-african-rugby-union/

 

[munstermuffin]

Seems an issue is qualification for European competition.
Also the derbies are safe but how the season works is still up for discussion I believe

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My uncle lives in Cape Town and now has South African Citizenship, from what he says to me, the country is nothing like as bad as the media portrays. If anything it sounds better and safer than England. Makes me almost want to move there.

Cape Town is a paradise. At least the good parts. Of which there are plenty mind you.


TBF to Steve Hofmeyr he isn't talking about the better urban parts of SA. Everything he talks about is interior rural SA. Two hugely different worlds. My father's uncle is a cow farmer (he'll tell you he farms with grass the cows take care of themselves) and I was shocked when visiting. He has a reinforced concrete deck above the ceiling not acting as the roof, merely for saftey, 5 camps you go through to get to the house, What really got me was they have thick steel burglarproofing concave and very narrow so that handgrenades can't get passed. Worst is they have been attacked three times. Automatic weapons, handgreandes, IE heavily armed, organized and planned attacks. This is Northern Free State. My father's cousin was attacked in his home by 9 men armed with axes and pangas. He flattened 4 (was a boxer and still hard AF) getting to his car. He had a cracked skull from being thrown with a brick, plenty of lacerations and deep cuts yet he was arrested for assault on the attackers he punched lights out and had to pay each R9000 or 2 years in jail. He just paid and wanted to get the thing over and done with. That is the SA Steve is talking about. As much as we defend SA, there are two very different SAs.

 

[Gregster]

Not touching that.. interview. I don't know any far right 'celebs' thinking they speak for everyone from the UK or I'd compare them to Steve 'wie's jou pappa?' Hofmeyr. A lot he says I agree with, a lot I don't. Lets just leave it at that.

On the Pro 14. Splitting into conferences makes the red flags wave for me. Its what is killing SR. It depends on how exactly its handled I suppose.

What I don't get is that the Pro 14 is starting soon and SR has just ended yet the Cheetahs have named a full strnegth (or near enough) for the Currie Cup opener; 15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 Rosco Soecman, 13 Francois Venter (captain), 12 William Small-Smith, 11 Raymond Rhule, 10 Niel Marais, 9 Shaun Venter, 8 Henco Venter, 7 Uzair Cassiem, 6 Niell Jordaan, 5 Reniel Hugo, 4 Carl Wegner, 3 Aranos Coetzee, 2 Joseph Dweba, 1 Charles Marais
Substitutes: 16 Ox Nche, 17 Reinach Venter, 18 Rynier Bernardo, 19 Chris Dry, 20 Zee Mkhabela, 21 JW Jonker, 22 Cecil Afrika

I think on the positive, it seems the Cheetahs are keeping a hold on most of their better players. I see only Mohoje and Petersen missing. Not major losses. I think Torsten van Jaarsveld is still injured. One would think or at least hope that they would be able to build up given enough capital into a competitive side.

Do the Kings also have a team in the Currie Cup? How can they and the Cheetahs play in both?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Do the Kings also have a team in the Currie Cup? How can they and the Cheetahs play in both?

Kings are not in the CC premier division.

These sides are provincial and player resources usually run deep. Even if those players are on peanuts. All our SR sides' provinces played in the Super Sport Challenge Cup while we were busy with Super Rugby. Western Province (Stormers) just won it last week fielding players like Bjorn Basson and Kurt Coleman etc with SR experience all while we were playing SR. We generally use these competitions to keep the fringe players match fit and get youngsters or players returning from long injury up to speed apart from those that fit right into the 'senior/tier 1' sides. My thinking is that the Cheetahs and Kins will use the Currie Cup for this purpose. The bigger sides already tend to not put in a full tilt effort in CC as is.

 

[Gregster]

Kings are not in the CC premier division.

These sides are provincial and player resources usually run deep. Even if those players are on peanuts. All our SR sides' provinces played in the Super Sport Challenge Cup while we were busy with Super Rugby. Western Province (Stormers) just won it last week fielding players like Bjorn Basson and Kurt Coleman etc with SR experience all while we were playing SR. We generally use these competitions to keep the fringe players match fit and get youngsters or players returning from long injury up to speed apart from those that fit right into the 'senior/tier 1' sides. My thinking is that the Cheetahs and Kins will use the Currie Cup for this purpose. The bigger sides already tend to not put in a full tilt effort in CC as is.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm really looking forward to seeing both the Cheetahs and Kings play here in the UK. Do you think that many supporters of either team will travel over?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm really looking forward to seeing both the Cheetahs and Kings play here in the UK. Do you think that many supporters of either team will travel over?

I would be surprised if the numbers traveling would be substantial. The weak Rand is hitting us hard over here. Doubly so when looking at traveling. I suspect their supporters pitching to games will be mostly expats or youngsters working abroad or people traveling anyway (many SA parents take teh opportunity of their children working abroad to travel to those destinations). All in all we aren't big travelers. The Rand is not strong.

 

[profitius]

Cape Town is a paradise. At least the good parts. Of which there are plenty mind you.


TBF to Steve Hofmeyr he isn't talking about the better urban parts of SA. Everything he talks about is interior rural SA. Two hugely different worlds. My father's uncle is a cow farmer (he'll tell you he farms with grass the cows take care of themselves) and I was shocked when visiting. He has a reinforced concrete deck above the ceiling not acting as the roof, merely for saftey, 5 camps you go through to get to the house, What really got me was they have thick steel burglarproofing concave and very narrow so that handgrenades can't get passed. Worst is they have been attacked three times. Automatic weapons, handgreandes, IE heavily armed, organized and planned attacks. This is Northern Free State. My father's cousin was attacked in his home by 9 men armed with axes and pangas. He flattened 4 (was a boxer and still hard AF) getting to his car. He had a cracked skull from being thrown with a brick, plenty of lacerations and deep cuts yet he was arrested for assault on the attackers he punched lights out and had to pay each R9000 or 2 years in jail. He just paid and wanted to get the thing over and done with. That is the SA Steve is talking about. As much as we defend SA, there are two very different SAs.

Theres only one SA, thats the problem. The same crowd runs the whole country and if some parts have turned into that state, why do you think it won't happen in other areas? Its inevitable.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Theres only one SA, thats the problem. The same crowd runs the whole country and if some parts have turned into that state, why do you think it won't happen in other areas? Its inevitable.

No it's not inevitable. And you need to live here to understand. There is a massive difference between the urban areas and the rural areas. And while the farm murders, particularly in the Free State area is happening, it's less apparent in other provinces closer to urban areas.

First of education plays a major factor. People in the urban areas are more educated and knows what is going on in the country, and what needs to change. Why else would the ANC lose 4 of the biggest Metropolitan areas to the DA?? People of all races are standing together to fight corruption.

Most of these farm murders are politically motivated, where the majority party spew racist chants in a violent matter, and these rural guys gets paid a boatload of money, to do these heinous act, to try and get the farmers to sell their farm to the government at a cheap value.

It happened here in Limpopo, One of my father's close friends was the owner of the biggest tobacco farm in Limpopo, and then he and his wife was attacked on his farm, had several break-ins etc. to the point that they just said, enough. They had to sell their farm to the Government, and the government GAVE the farm back to the people who had ancestral heritage connected to the land. 3 years later, that land was a barren wasteland with no sign whatsoever that there was ever a multimillion industry operating there. The government then went back to the farmer and asked if he would like to buy the farm back from them. To which he declined, and so the government had to spend a lot of money into training the people living on the farm to actually farm. To this date that farm hasn't performed at all, but what it did do, was stop the government from doing it to other farmers in the Province.

But that's how our majority party does things. First do it their way (which is the wrong way), fail miserably (everytime), and then ask the white man to help them...
Wash, Rinse, Repeat