Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[TRF_heineken]

SA posters, I would like and was hoping to hear other opinions on it; a Currie Cup serving as leading into ECC with 8 SA CC teams;

14 regular season home and away CC fixtures + SF + F. + However many ECC games your teams plays in whichever tier even if SA teams don't play in the top tier (please forgive me, I know they have different names and all).

Bottom 2 of the Top 8 SA teams to play vs the 2nd tier promo/releg matches;

1 Western Province
2 Golden Lions
3 Free State Cheetahs
4 Kwazulu-Natal Sharks
5 Eastern Province (Kings or Elephants?)
6 Blue Bulls
7 Mpumalanga Pumas
8 Boland Cavaliers (I would find it difficult to pick between WP and Boland as I live on the edge and despite supporting WP have always fancied myself a Bolander.. its just they don't play in any noteworthy tournaments currently)

9 Northern Cape Griquas
10 the dross..
11...
12...
13...
14...
15 Harare?
16 Windhoek?

The 'big 6' and Pumas should find themselves all but assured their spots in the premier division. I can only really see Boland and Griquas trading places every other year depending on form.

Nambia and Zimbabwe each allowed a team in the spirit of expanding the game and for symmetry between CC premier and 1st divisions; it'd be unfair expecting the bottom placed top tier team to play for their lives against the top of the bottom tiers if they played 4 fewer regular season matches.

Geez... Are you already entertaining this idea that we might disband the Super Rugby tournament? Even with the proposal of a global season on the cards??? Okay fine, I'll bite.

We already have some sort of promotion/relegation system with the CC. The issue I'm having is with SARU changing the format every year.

I think the SS Challenge trophy has been a welcome addition to the SA calendar, and I think it will strengthen the Currie Cup. I do however think that if we were to join the ECC, there will be a lot more players returning from the North. And this could lead to more teams being strengthened due to the player pool not being drained as much. The question will then be if the premier division will remain with 7, or will it grow to 8 or 9 or even 10 teams.

But if we are going to join the ECC and leave the SR, then our teams should have equal benefits. At least 5 of our teams should then be part of the ECC. Otherwise we will be losing out...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Geez... Are you already entertaining this idea that we might disband the Super Rugby tournament? Even with the proposal of a global season on the cards??? Okay fine, I'll bite.

We already have some sort of promotion/relegation system with the CC. The issue I'm having is with SARU changing the format every year.

I think the SS Challenge trophy has been a welcome addition to the SA calendar, and I think it will strengthen the Currie Cup. I do however think that if we were to join the ECC, there will be a lot more players returning from the North. And this could lead to more teams being strengthened due to the player pool not being drained as much. The question will then be if the premier division will remain with 7, or will it grow to 8 or 9 or even 10 teams.

But if we are going to join the ECC and leave the SR, then our teams should have equal benefits. At least 5 of our teams should then be part of the ECC. Otherwise we will be losing out...

Global season won't happen because there isn't money in it. There is money in this. I am more than confident 4 teams in ECC would be fine. Its not like the other teams will be out in the dark, just in a lower tier (playing against decent opposition).

 

[munstermuffin]

Global season won't happen because there isn't money in it. There is money in this. I am more than confident 4 teams in ECC would be fine. Its not like the other teams will be out in the dark, just in a lower tier (playing against decent opposition).

Isn't it sanctioned already for after 2019 season?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Isn't it sanctioned already for after 2019 season?

Really? Then I had a huge blindspot LOL.

 

[munstermuffin]

Really? Then I had a huge blindspot LOL.

I may be wrong but certain Super Rugby season willl be Jan - June with no interuption for internationals

 

[Stumpy]

Really? Then I had a huge blindspot LOL.

Here's the info on the new calendar

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

In fairness Alpha I go to every Munster match and have seen many faces that go to every pool game and numerous Pro 12 games away. Alot have made the Italian trips an annual thing. Also know of Leinster fans who do the same and go to quite a few away Pro 12 games taking advantage of cheap Ryanair flights etc and fact they can plan a few weeks in advance.

But equally I agree. South African teams are a great positive in my eyes for Pro12. Also there is a lot of South Africans in UK and Ireland so I can see all attendances in South Africa and here boosted.

Still a very small minority, are they going to care that there'd be three less trips to the likes of Newport, Castres or Coventry if we see better rugby at home? I doubt it!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Still a very small minority, are they going to care that there'd be three less trips to the likes of Newport, Castres or Leicester if we see better rugby at home? I doubt it!

I see what you did there.

Have you even been to Welford Road brah or where you still a Munster fan the last Time Leinster played against us at WR?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I'm not so sure about that. With the Continental Shield being expanded into a full 3rd tier EPCR tournament (as opposed to just a qualification process), there is plenty of scope to shunt maybe 3 or 4 non-performing AP/Top14 teams there, and thus make space to promote worthy former-EPCRQ teams into the Challenge and Champions Cups.

As much as I'd love relegation playoffs to the Continental Shield I think it unlikely that the same unions who defend their 6N cartel to the hilt at men's and women's rugby will then open the door to having their club teams relegated to play amateur sides from Portugal and Germany (with no disrespect with them).

The 6N unions would not have to think too long about whether they'd like two sides from Siberia in the Challenge Cup or two from South Africa.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I see what you did there.

Have you even been to Welford Road brah or where you still a Munster fan the last Time Leinster played against us at WR?

You mean when Ireland's best winger of the professional era went in under your sticks? I've never been but I must admit it's a trip I'd like to make and therefore I'll edit my post!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

You mean when Ireland's best winger of the professional era went in under your sticks? I've never been but I must admit it's a trip I'd like to make and therefore I'll edit my post!

That wasn't at WR TBF.

God Leinster has only faced us once at home in Europe (And you lost that game) . We seem to always get fecking Munster and Ulster.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That wasn't at WR TBF.

God Leinster has only faced us once at home in Europe (And you lost that game) . We seem to always get fecking Munster and Ulster.

The world isn't ready for Lei v Lei.

 

[die_mole]

Really? Where did you find them? A Trump rally?

I think after Japan's victory over the Springboks in the World Cup, a lot of people's perspectives changed regarding other nations playing rugby.

Most people I know can name at least 15 countries playing rugby...

on here you'll see people very entrenched in favour of the status quo

people don't want promotion/relegation introduced into six nations, want to limit roster spots for foreign players in domestic leagues, etc.,

 

[munstermuffin]

Still a very small minority, are they going to care that there'd be three less trips to the likes of Newport, Castres or Coventry if we see better rugby at home? I doubt it!

Especially when those spots aren't am ... historical beautiful cultural spots

 

[Brigantine]

As much as I'd love relegation playoffs to the Continental Shield I think it unlikely that the same unions who defend their 6N cartel to the hilt at men's and women's rugby will then open the door to having their club teams relegated to play amateur sides from Portugal and Germany (with no disrespect with them).

The 6N unions would not have to think too long about whether they'd like two sides from Siberia in the Challenge Cup or two from South Africa.

I'm mainly coming at this from the perspective of the 12th & 13th placed teams in the Top 14. Do they even *want* EPCR to be more than a warm-up game for their reserves, when they're pre-occupied fighting to avoid the Pro D2? Especially when every Challenge Cup pool already has a higher ranked French side that they already play twice per season.

But yeah I suppose there is an issue with the top seeds in the Challenge Cup wanting a level playing field for QF seeding, and other than Enisey STM I suppose the Eccellenza/Georgian/Romanian/Russian sides still have a way to go yet before they can provide that.

Maybe the Currie Cup will drop the premier division altogether and the Griquas/Pumas/Boland can qualify for the Challenge Cup instead!

 

[Gregster]

Would the Sunwolves be a better alternative in the Pro 12? Given that Japan will play Scotland, Ireland and at least one other Northern Hemisphere team in the next World Cup, you'd have thought that their rugby authorities would be keen to give their players more experience against this opposition. Cutting both the Cheetahs and Southerners does seem very harsh.

 

[munstermuffin]

Would the Sunwolves be a better alternative in the Pro 12? Given that Japan will play Scotland, Ireland and at least one other Northern Hemisphere team in the next World Cup, you'd have thought that their rugby authorities would be keen to give their players more experience against this opposition. Cutting both the Cheetahs and Southerners does seem very harsh.

You can't really judge it based on World Cup pools though.

 

[Amiga500]

Would the Sunwolves be a better alternative in the Pro 12?

No. The SA timezone is much more favourable to Europe, ditto the Sunwolves playing with the Kiwis/Aussies.

 

[Thingimubob]

Games in Portugal and Germany would certainly be less expensive and easier to get to than SA, I have no idea what it is like travel to Georgia but presumably easier than SA. Russian teams already play in the Challange Cup.
Look what happened when we tried to move a game to SA, people weren't happy. We moved a game to Belguim as well and people weren't happy about it but they understood as at the time we had no home ground. But from that point on they said they'd move no more home games abroad. So we decided to move our away games abroad instead and people are not happy about that but it won't stop them doing it.
At the end of the day, SA teams I am sure will join and there will be people unhappy about it like me but it doesn't matter ECC and the clubs will see the idea of more money and we do what they want. Fans are replaceable in their eyes.

Not that easy annoyingly. Have been looking into it recently as Wales are playing in Tbilisi soon for a football world cup qualifier, there's only one or two direct flights per week from the UK (which don't line up all that well for a weekend trip) and they'll set you back a good £350 or so. There are plenty of other bloody long flights with connections in Istanbul though too, but they aren't too cheap either.

Interested to see how this experiment goes, looking forward to welcoming some SA fans to Cardiff though!

 

[Gregster]

Surely the Sunwolves were created with the 2019 World Cup in mind, to raise the profile of the game in the country and the standard of opposition their players face on a regular basis. It can't all be about TV, timezones etc, can it?!