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Depression And Friends

I think the 'man up' expression can be taken in many ways. Personally I see it as 'ok, you know the problem, now address it!'
I don't find it abusive in the context in which it was said. I think it's more layman's terms for how to address the problem of any mental disorder. People need to admit the problem first, then 'man up'(aka admit it to others) and try to find a solution.

While I do agree to a large extent with this, there are factors regarding depression which haven't been addressed, and makes posts from Big E seem very distasteful.

Depression is a mental illness, yes. But it's not always something that can be controlled, or the person that is suffering from it, is even aware of. I have seen this in my own family. Depression, can be a genetic illness, passed on by parents/grandparents. On my mother's side, she, and all 3 her sisters went through a form of depression, and then my cousin has been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder.

Being bipolar is not something that can be controlled by using the "man-the-F-up" attitude. She needs medication, as when the "polarity" is at an all time low, she has tendencies towards suicide, using drugs, and other extreme behaviours. Now this cannot happen as she has a 3-month old baby.

I myself went through depression,due to a very traumatic series of events that happened in a week's time. My father (who used the "man-up" attitude, due to a lack of understanding the problem of depression itself) struggled to get anything out of me, he got furious many times and nearly assaulted me out of frustration.

Depression is a chemical imbalance in the body which affects the brain, but can also affect the rest of the body such as having fatigue, change in eating habits, pain in certain areas of the body and so on. Medication works, but mostly it's used to repair chemical imbalance in the body, and trying to get the balance at an equal base. facing the problem/cause of the depression, is one part of curing/living with the illness.

Using the "man-up" expression is a very uninformed and ignorant way to go about.
 
Crazy how many of you have experience with depression. I haven't but fair play to you all.
 
Agreed. Depression is as legit a medical condition as a broken arm or cancer. It doesn't just go away by having someone say "ah look, sure things are grand." Your life could be great in every measurable external way, but you still can have the illness. I'm sure that MM will agree with me when I say that Irish society has been particularly slow to take this on board, but it would appear that opinion is finally starting to turn in the correct direction, particularly amongst the younger generations.

Anyway, the main thing is being able to talk about it and get the support you need. The web is a great resource for this, as it can sometimes be difficult to bring yourself to explain your situation to those close to you, or those people may simply not be there. Reddit has a particularly good community for depression, I'd recommend anyone concerned check it out.

http://www.reddit.com/r/depression/

Your 100% correct. It was like a stigma in Ireland to see counsellor but things are changing slowly thankfully but at a price with suicide rates rising too unfortunately. But it is vital I think that people do embrace help and dont feel trapped with feelings.

Very good link Feic
 
I got medicated at one stage in my life after something of a breakdown (had quite a rough 2 years between 2006/08 mostly the results of my own choices) but I didn't take to well to it and stopped after a while. It made me dizzy, frantic and paranoid. Seeing the psychiatrist really helped though, just talking honestly and openly to some random person where I didn't care so much about the 'shame' accosiated with mental problems. That and later finding a church where God is the actual focus and not just an excuse for religious trappings has gotten me into a place where I feel really comfortable with who I am and what I can mean for those around me.

I'm not trying to say don't try medication or that it can't work but for me.. I just didn't feel 'right' while taking the medication perscribed to me at that stage.
 
I got medicated at one stage in my life after something of a breakdown (had quite a rough 2 years between 2006/08 mostly the results of my own choices) but I didn't take to well to it and stopped after a while. It made me dizzy, frantic and paranoid. Seeing the psychiatrist really helped though, just talking honestly and openly to some random person where I didn't care so much about the 'shame' accosiated with mental problems. That and later finding a church where God is the actual focus and not just an excuse for religious trappings has gotten me into a place where I feel really comfortable with who I am and what I can mean for those around me.

I'm not trying to say don't try medication or that it can't work but for me.. I just didn't feel 'right' while taking the medication perscribed to me at that stage.

This is also true. I'm not saying medication in the form of pills is always the only option. Medication comes in different forms, where pills are just one way of going about.

The medication I used was a very mild one, but it did make me extremely tired, when I was on them. I think the problem sometimes is, that the GP prescribes the pills and then says if it doesn't work, then go see a psychiatrist. Then the psychiatrist says that the dosage is too high or something like that, and then you are in a worse condition than you were before using the pills as medication.
 
I think I read somewhere once that the Antidepressant drugs had a huge link to mass shootings in the US, could be wrong or the source was full of ****
 
I wouldn't be surprised.

They hand out xanax like it's pick-and-mix.
It's bizarre seeing prescription drugs being advertised on tv - the US healthcare system is ****ed.
 
I got medicated at one stage in my life after something of a breakdown (had quite a rough 2 years between 2006/08 mostly the results of my own choices) but I didn't take to well to it and stopped after a while. It made me dizzy, frantic and paranoid. Seeing the psychiatrist really helped though, just talking honestly and openly to some random person where I didn't care so much about the 'shame' accosiated with mental problems. That and later finding a church where God is the actual focus and not just an excuse for religious trappings has gotten me into a place where I feel really comfortable with who I am and what I can mean for those around me.

I'm not trying to say don't try medication or that it can't work but for me.. I just didn't feel 'right' while taking the medication perscribed to me at that stage.

I think the key there is having focus in your mind. I think it's 1 of toughest aspects of beating mental illness is keeping mind focussed and learning it is a battle you'll always be vulnerable to. But thanks for that story Stormer it is very reflective and great guideline.
 
There's a reason why the 'man-up' strategy doesn't work:

brain.jpg

At the time, one knows these things. One thinks about all the bad things in the world and how good their situation is, and how life is worthwhile. But it only serves to make the feelings worse - "why do I feel this way?" and it becomes a vicious cycle. It's pretty disconcerting to simultaneously acknowledge the good in the world, yet want nothing else but to die.
 
if you want facts, here are some other ones that haven't been mentioned here:
depression is something that's reported in developed countries the most, by far. While it is a three-dimensional, weighty reality for us out here, it's a luxury for someone in a poor African country. We can *afford* to go to school and learn philosophy and 'oh can you believe Aristotle came up with a logic system way back then, how impressive'. And even if the depression is real, its origin is this fake-a$s world we've fabricated, far from all things natural and harmonizing. We're people of the concrete, an urban species with its own new faults that never should've existed. And our tummies are softer than ever. A restaurant is a place to go eat food, not pay 50€ to taste intellectually captivating waters in "water bars". Dressing up in 100€ clothes our dogs. Our world is sick and has derailed from the plot long ago.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome only exists in the first world, you don't fkng see poor Bolivians or Congolese people with it; and 'adrenal fatigue' was dubbed the "21st century disease" by a famous contemporary doctor. Pollution, terrible quality of food, sur-exploitation, enormous stress at work or social occasions, the capitalistic disaster, over-stimulating, screens all day, everything this world has come to is incompatible with the human species we are, evolved primates/hominids with biological needs and essential requirements.
Where do all those suicides and depressions come from ?? Why us, the "developed" societies ? What species manages to create problems for itself, invent a new platform to set its own self up for sickness ?

About the 'man-up' approach, I'm just saying this life can get tough - tough as hell, it can... - but we need to be strong, strong as fk, that's what life is all about. You all have the strength in you, you just need to tap into it, and sometimes a good shakeup in your life is just what you need. I hate this saying coz it's so cheesy, but "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger", fkn cheesy but still true. Each time something rough happens to you, it's a blessing, because you don't improve from emotional inertia; everytime something bad happens, that's one more thing you'll overcome and can call personal conquest.
But look, sometimes you've got a really rough period to go through, and you run into something on TV or online, and then you go 'you know what, thank God...things could be tons worse. Maybe what I have is real, and very very difficult, but fk it, I'm gonna man up. I'm gonna fight more and complain less and fit in with everybody else like I've got nothing.' Just check out this guy a little bit talking about his Progeria condition and how he actually manages to stay happy:




God, or life, will impose tests on you. This is it, you don't get another fight. This is life and if you've got a real problem, show your mettle, it's your chance to beat the wrong: confidence and self-esteem, all that stuff is in your head. It's not real.
 
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if you want facts, here are some other ones that haven't been mentioned here:
depression is something that's reported in developed countries the most, by far. While it is a three-dimensional, weighty reality for us out here, it's a luxury for someone in a poor African country. We can *afford* to go to school and learn philosophy and 'oh can you believe Aristotle came up with a logic system way back then, how impressive'. And even if the depression is real, its origin is this fake-a$s world we've fabricated, far from all things natural and harmonizing. We're people of the concrete, an urban species with its own new faults that never should've existed. And our tummies are softer than ever. A restaurant is a place to go eat food, not pay 50â'¬ to taste intellectually captivating waters in "water bars". Dressing up in 100â'¬ clothes our dogs. Our world is sick and has derailed from the plot long ago.

Yeah, I'm hardly pleased with today's society and all that, but depression is far from just a 21st century illness and has been part of civilisation from long before we were that far removed from nature (and, on a side note, we've been derailing from the plot ever since we decided to pick up a rock to crack a nut). It's a set of complex conditions that cannot be ascribed to any one thing. Bipolar spectrum disorders, for example, are genetically inherited (that's an irrefutable fact) and has also been alluded to throughout history and have nothing to do with the condition of today's society. Either way, depression arises in people with a predisposition to it - it's not to do with being 'strong' or 'weak', it just is.

On another note, I was reading one of Lewis Wolpert's books on the subject a while back, it's suspected that the physical manifestation of depression does vary from country to country and is an oft-somatised condition - for example, there are fewer incidences of the 'classic' depressive symptoms in China, but they often manifest as other physical complaints, usually stomach-related. I haven't got the references to hand, but having had a few somatic complaints myself I can believe that.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome only exists in the first world, you don't fkng see poor Bolivians or Congolese people with it; and 'adrenal fatigue' was dubbed the "21st century disease" by a famous contemporary doctor. Pollution, terrible quality of food, sur-exploitation, enormous stress at work or social occasions, the capitalistic disaster, over-stimulating, screens all day, everything this world has come to is incompatible with the human species we are, evolved primates/hominids with biological needs and essential requirements.
Where do all those suicides and depressions come from ?? Why us, the "developed" societies ? What species manages to create problems for itself, invent a new platform to set its own self up for sickness ?

Seeing as (still) so little is known about CFS, I wouldn't rush to draw conclusions and blame everything on perceived societal ills. In drawing up a counterpoint, I'd argue that people with such conditions often have weaker immune systems and, in poorer countries with limited medical access are more likely to die at a younger age. There's also the fact that Western medicine is hardly standardised across the world, and in many cases these will be diagnosed as 'possession' et al. Again, I don't necessarily like the 'removal from nature' aspects of today's society, but I also don't think that you can proffer a simple cause-and-effect explanation for '21st century illness'.

About the 'man-up' approach, I'm just saying this life can get tough - tough as hell, it can... - but we need to be strong, strong as fk, that's what life is all about. You all have the strength in you, you just need to tap into it, and sometimes a good shakeup in your life is just what you need. I hate this saying coz it's so cheesy, but "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger", fkn cheesy but still true. Each time something rough happens to you, it's a blessing, because you don't improve from emotional inertia; everytime something bad happens, that's one more thing you'll overcome and can call personal conquest.
But look, sometimes you've got a really rough period to go through, and you run into something on TV or online, and then you go 'you know what, thank God...things could be tons worse. Maybe what I have is real, and very very difficult, but fk it, I'm gonna man up. I'm gonna fight more and complain less and fit in with everybody else like I've got nothing.' Just check out this guy a little bit talking about his Progeria condition and how he actually manages to stay happy:

God, or life, will impose tests on you. This is it, you don't get another fight. This is life and if you've got a real problem, show your mettle, it's your chance to beat the wrong: confidence and self-esteem, all that stuff is in your head. It's not real.

I'd say that depression and the act of getting through depression can be a learning, cleansing experience. However, I will say that simply the act of surviving a depressive episode IS 'manning up' (I ****ing abhor that phrase). If you are able to function relatively normally during one, then great, so long as it's not detrimental. However, it's not always the case - simply surviving depressive episodes is a massive challenge and, quite frankly, your advice is tantamount to telling someone with a broken arm that they're a pussy for having a cast.

I cannot impress on you enough the degree to which one's cognitive faculties are compromised at the time and the fact that depression is nothing to do with weakness and strength, it's a state that just IS and can occur at any time, whether it's triggered by events or whether it's simply random. It's not a case of just engaging the brain and just getting on with things, it's not something that can be pushed through. Have you not considered that, for some people, depression IS one of 'life's tests' for them? That that is the hand that they've been dealt and one of their life tasks is learning how to manage it? Ultimately, depression is a set of conditions that aren't cured, only managed. The way to deal with it is to build your support when you're not and to be able to survive through it when you are. The only thing you can do during depression is try to remove yourself from triggers that will worsen it.
 
well there's tons to be said here, but this probably isn't the place for it.
Of course depression is old as man himself, but I'm obviously pointing my finger at the *new reasons* for depression, this new urban culture or urban biotope we've artificially built around us.
You tell me about bipolar syndrome, something ultra-debilitating and degenerative. My uncle has it, he's a nut. I'm clearly just talking about your common bloke, the regular Joe who's at the bar with his regular friends after a regular day of work sayin' "hey guys, I think I'm depressed". That's what this thread is about, unless I've missed it, we're not talking about considerably unbalanced people here. I'm leaving out full-on INSANITY like my uncle who clearly NEEDS urgent medical assistance (but won't get it, because he partially denies having it...).

And no you're wrong about CFS. It's not that poorer country ppl have it and just die from it and we live to talk about it because we can contain it. It was originally called the Yuppy flu, for a damn good reason. Poor countries *don't have* CFS. It's just us rich folks. White people mostly, in a crushing majority. And yes, it almost always comes with digestive issues.

About "manning up". Said all I needed to, won't talk more. Take it or leave it - with respect I say this.
 
Yuppy flu is mumps/glandular fever.
CFS is very much a real thing, as are other invisible diseases like ME/fibromyalgia, and yes mental illnesses too.
 
Is this thread for sharing experiences and support, or for general debate? Cos if its the former, it's gone heavily of course...
 
Is this thread for sharing experiences and support, or for general debate? Cos if its the former, it's gone heavily of course...
Both Peat. Everyone should feel free to say any of their experiences but also it is a subject open to debate. I don't agree with alot Big E is saying but understand his views and points behind it. And well some may view his observations as fair.
As a sufferer I think its important to talk and well share experiences as if 1 little tip from 1 guy helps another then it means this thread has been worthwhile. Of course I don't believe any 2 cases are the same and every individual case is unique but just it baffles me why such an importand part of a person bilogically and mentally isn't viewed as highly in medical world (here in Ireland any way). And awareness is rising a bit but mental health still doesn't get enough coverage and in Ireland I still believe some have a stigma of talking to professionals. In the USA its very common to speak to a shrink or therapist which is where I'd hope this region of the world could eventually head towards.
 
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Yuppy flu is mumps/glandular fever.
CFS is very much a real thing, as are other invisible diseases like ME/fibromyalgia, and yes mental illnesses too.

I know, I'm simply pointing out it was called that originally - as a means to illustrate just how 'Caucasian' the problem really is.
 
well there's tons to be said here, but this probably isn't the place for it.
Of course depression is old as man himself, but I'm obviously pointing my finger at the *new reasons* for depression, this new urban culture or urban biotope we've artificially built around us.
You tell me about bipolar syndrome, something ultra-debilitating and degenerative. My uncle has it, he's a nut. I'm clearly just talking about your common bloke, the regular Joe who's at the bar with his regular friends after a regular day of work sayin' "hey guys, I think I'm depressed". That's what this thread is about, unless I've missed it, we're not talking about considerably unbalanced people here. I'm leaving out full-on INSANITY like my uncle who clearly NEEDS urgent medical assistance (but won't get it, because he partially denies having it...).

And no you're wrong about CFS. It's not that poorer country ppl have it and just die from it and we live to talk about it because we can contain it. It was originally called the Yuppy flu, for a damn good reason. Poor countries *don't have* CFS. It's just us rich folks. White people mostly, in a crushing majority. And yes, it almost always comes with digestive issues.

About "manning up". Said all I needed to, won't talk more. Take it or leave it - with respect I say this.

Just because it impacts largely more developed societies - does that make it any less real? Other diseases of affluence include osteoporosis and colorectal cancer, are they any less real because they mostly affect MEDC's (or as you would say, 'the rich')? Poor counties / LEDC's / less developed countries suffer from a lot of diseases and problems that are non existent in our reality.
Also, a large proportion of women in less developed countries suffer from depression because of various socio-economic reasons. (and in my opinion the view and treatment of women by religion is a major part of that - I'm sure I won't make many friends posting that..).

"He's a nut" - you do know this type of speaking makes people feel worse? Or, again, is this just ignorance? I doubt you mean harm, contrary to what you may think I don't dislike you, but I'm not so sure you realize what you type sometimes. Words have huge impacts on people.

"Hey guys, I'm depressed". This really shows you have no idea what you're talking about, and have never experienced it before. This is clearly NOT what depression is. If it was then it wouldn't be such a huge problem and people could fight it or 'man up' as you say. I wish I had more knowledge on neuroscience, fascinating topic, but fundamental imbalances in the brain do not just 'go away' overnight.

Quality of life also isn't the only source of depression - which I think you were hinting at when talking about 'regular joe' and his 'regular day of work'.

I just think you need to understand the difference between feeling down and clinical depression. Sorry if this is derailing the thread, so much respect for all you guys posting about their problems.
 
Ok guys, let's not turn this into a debate thread. I think the intention was for people with similar experiences to connect here. If you want to have a debate on this or other topics, please feel free to carry on in a new thread.
 
No no that's alright, I'm just about done here stating facts about my bunkers uncle and CFS and....I'M PURE EVILLL !!!!!!!
haha, wowww, where did that come from, right ?!...hah, ....
 

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