England vs Argentina - 06/11/22

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Piece of cake for part-timer Cheika. A shame he couldn't get 'Lebanon' to the rugby league semis as well.

Pumas up to a deserved 6th in the world and could overhaul England for 5th if they have a good tour.

England ar least looked a little more coherent in open play to me (at least in the last 20mins they were making line breaks regularly), but it's hard to see them having a massive upturn prior to the RWC.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Piece of cake for part-timer Cheika. A shame he couldn't get 'Lebanon' to the rugby league semis as well.

Pumas up to a deserved 6th in the world and could overhaul England for 5th if they have a good tour.

England ar least looked a little more coherent in open play to me (at least in the last 20mins they were making line breaks regularly), but it's hard to see them having a massive upturn prior to the RWC.

The problem with England making line breaks etc is you feel that they will inevitably cough it up. Ireland and Wales (even in poor form) can repeatedly get through 10 phases without looking like losing the ball. I have zero confidence England can do that. They will either give away a stupid penalty, throw a wayward pass or knock it on. These are players who, at club level, could retain the ball just fine so it's not like they can't do it.

The worst thing in any job is uncertainty, not knowing what you are doing hinders your ability more than anything and England look clueless in all aspects of the game. We do 1 out passing to big guys hoping someone will somehow bust through but there's next to no manipulating of defences. We are trying to play the South African style of "you know what's coming but can you stop it", which is ok but that relies on solid basics and discipline, England display neither.

 

[Geordie]

Dump Youngs, Mako, Manu and Cokasaniga.

Put Itoje back to lock, Put Willis at 6. Coles worth another look from bench or starting...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Dump Youngs, Mako, Manu and Cokasaniga.

Put Itoje back to lock, Put Willis at 6. Coles worth another look from bench or starting...

tbh if we were going to dump one of our wings, I'd dump Nowell. I've defended him a lot but I can't see what he offers any more.

 

[BillyMarlene]

They need an inspirational leader as coach.
Look what Sinfield did for Tigers; they would follow him over a cliff.
Having said that, I hope to God he stays with Tigers!

 

[higgik]

I 100% believe sarries would beat england if you could duplicate players. Just way more drilled and organised. They play with a plan and all seem to know what they are doing….the opposite of England.

My argument for picking a style like a successful club and adding players in.
Either go for Sarries or Quins. 2 different styles but successful.
Playing Faz and Smith denies both of playing their own game

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ok Farrell has played at 12 for how long? How can he STILL have no running game? Sorry but for a supposedly world class international who has been playing there for a few years the fact that he can go entire tournaments without running the ball into the defence himself even once is ridiculous. Defences can just completely ignore him.

 

[Geordie]

tbh if we were going to dump one of our wings, I'd dump Nowell. I've defended him a lot but I can't see what he offers any more.

Ah he can go aswell to be fair...Murley is a better version of Nowell...

 

[Derpus]

Wallabies really should have been able to put this England side away at home. Quite disappointing really.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Ah he can go aswell to be fair...Murley is a better version of Nowell...

Harsh on Murley tbh

 

[Umaga's Witness]

England thought they were the all blacks

 

[BPM]

You didn't finish your sentence. It should have said 'England thought they were the All Blacks when Ian Foster first took over'.

 

[BPM]

Wallabies really should have been able to put this England side away at home. Quite disappointing really.

Not as disappointing as being an England fan right now …

As you say, you really should have won that series and to be honest, it probably would have been better for us if you had. Our series win didn't exactly paper over the cracks but it took the heat off Eddie a little bit which hasn't helped.

Right now, I don't think it's inconceivable that we go 0/4 in the AIs. Japan can't be taken lightly. They'll have seen how poor we were last weekend and will fancy their chances of a first win over England. NZ will almost certainly be too good for us and so will SA. Although, IIRC, the SA game is outside of the test window so won't be played at full strength. Maybe that's our best shot?

 

[Geordie]

If we go 0/4 or even 1/4 does Eddie go?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think there's any chance the RFU bin him before the RWC - 2021 Six Nations would've been the time to do it, after a string of terrible performances/a 5th place finish/leaving enough time for a new guy to bed in

You'd hope they've been in contact with whoever it is that they're lining up to replace him after the World Cup, so it'd need either the new guy to be available now, or something willing to risk their coaching reputation on a 10month contract inheriting a really out of sorts side and heading almost immediately into a World Cup

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't think there's any chance the RFU bin him before the RWC - 2021 Six Nations would've been the time to do it, after a string of terrible performances/a 5th place finish/leaving enough time for a new guy to bed in

You'd hope they've been in contact with whoever it is that they're lining up to replace him after the World Cup, so it'd need either the new guy to be available now, or something willing to risk their coaching reputation on a 10month contract inheriting a really out of sorts side and heading almost immediately into a World Cup

Then again if you walk into a failing side and they continue to fail, you have an excuse. If you walk into a failing side and turn them around, you are viewed as a guru. If rumours are true that we are going after Robertson, he has plenty of credit in the bank already proving how good he is and could potentially take a knock inheriting a poor team.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't think there's any chance the RFU bin him before the RWC - 2021 Six Nations would've been the time to do it, after a string of terrible performances/a 5th place finish/leaving enough time for a new guy to bed in

You'd hope they've been in contact with whoever it is that they're lining up to replace him after the World Cup, so it'd need either the new guy to be available now, or something willing to risk their coaching reputation on a 10month contract inheriting a really out of sorts side and heading almost immediately into a World Cup

Exactly.

On the playing front the back line is obviously a mess but the one individual player we miss more than any other is Underhill, simply for his ability to make dominant plays that are not only great in themselves, but give the whole team a lift.

One positive was that I quite liked the balance of the front 5 yesterday. Stiffer tests await, but potential there and I'd like to see it given the series to see how it develops. No point chopping and changing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Then again if you walk into a failing side and they continue to fail, you have an excuse. If you walk into a failing side and turn them around, you are viewed as a guru. If rumours are true that we are going after Robertson, he has plenty of credit in the bank already proving how good he is and could potentially take a knock inheriting a poor team.

Fair points - if we do have Robertson lined up (or whoever) and he's happy to come in early then that'd be great,
I was thinking more along the lines of a Cockerill or a Borthwick (obv hypothetically as he's not gonna leave Tigers) - someone who might have their eyes on the top job further down the line might not want to blot their copybook with a poor RWC. Even if excusable the press would definitely rinse them for it

 

[BPM]

Exactly.

On the playing front the back line is obviously a mess but the one individual player we miss more than any other is Underhill, simply for his ability to make dominant plays that are not only great in themselves, but give the whole team a lift.

One positive was that I quite liked the balance of the front 5 yesterday. Stiffer tests await, but potential there and I'd like to see it given the series to see how it develops. No point chopping and changing.

Eh? I'm a fan of Underhill's, but that statement is a proper stretch.

I'm not going to make a big hyperbolic statement, but Jamie George is a bigger miss for me. He's a leader who always plays well and does his job very effectively. LCD is overrated IMO.

Are you really saying you'd rather Coles than Itoje?

 

[TommiG88]

Still not over how poor we were yesterday. I can't even say it was down to Argentina playing well as every time they came into the England half we gave them an easy 3 points.