General Concussion thread

[AngloScotsHybrid]

It seems that all the players suffering from memory loss played in the noughties. Did players before that not have memory loss or was it just covered up in the 80s and 90s?

 

[Which Tyler]

A] "It seems" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
B] Before the noughties, rugby was amateur, or essentially so. There were fewer collisions, between smaller people, who were less intent on dominating each collision.
C] Before the noughties, rugby was amateur, or essentially so. Players didn't earn their living by playing rugby, so there was less training, fewer domineering coaches, and fewer mortgages relying on getting back on the pitch; so whilst less was known about concussion, and there was a greater culture of "man up" there was also less urgency to return to rugby.
D] Those who were playing in the 80s and 90s (and 70s and 60s and 50s and...) were in a greater culture of "man up" and would feel massive shame about admitting something like this.
E] Those who were playing in the 70s and 80s are notably older than those playing in the 00s and 10s - to the point that, by the time the risk of memory loss was an acknowledged risk, they'd be at an age where a degree of memory loss would be considered a normal part of aging.

 

[Which Tyler]

Quarter of World Rugby’s test group of ex-players ‘at risk’ of cognitive problems

One quarter of a group of former elite rugby union players who have participated in World Rugby’s new brain health service programme have been identified as being ‘at risk’

www.theguardian.com

 

[McTallshort]

It seems that all the players suffering from memory loss played in the noughties. Did players before that not have memory loss or was it just covered up in the 80s and 90s?

No but there was proper rucking back then, players didn't play as many games as tackling tended to focus more on the legs. Also players where more athletic and less bulky so collisions were less impactful.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No but there was proper rucking back then, players didn't play as many games as tackling tended to focus more on the legs. Also players where more athletic and less bulky so collisions were less impactful.

Was watching a bit of the ABs vs Wal game from 1978 earlier. Bill McLaren described "two huge packs averaging 15 st 7lb"

Or to put it another way a Henry Slade.

Interesting that it’s intended that a lot of the marketing around the future English top flight is going to be based around huge collisions. Bit of a throwback to Nike and England in the 1990s “It’s not the winning, it’s the taking apart” etc. Might have thought things had moved on a tad in light of what we now know.

 

[Which Tyler]

Judge criticises solicitor acting on behalf of players with brain injury lawsuits

The judge presiding over the two brain injury lawsuits in rugby league and union has issued an extraordinary criticism of the solicitor acting on behalf of the injured players

www.theguardian.com

Lawyers for the claimants seem a touch amateur, despite "being backed by a commercial litigation funder"

I'm also calling bullshit on "the firm lacked the resources to comply with the impossible task of providing full medical records for every one of the players involved" since GDPR - it takes the resources of... 1 letter to the individual's GP

 

[Ddanno]

Judge criticises solicitor acting on behalf of players with brain injury lawsuits

The judge presiding over the two brain injury lawsuits in rugby league and union has issued an extraordinary criticism of the solicitor acting on behalf of the injured players

www.theguardian.com

Lawyers for the claimants seem a touch amateur, despite "being backed by a commercial litigation funder"

I'm also calling bullshit on "the firm lacked the resources to comply with the impossible task of providing full medical records for every one of the players involved" since GDPR - it takes the resources of... 1 letter to the individual's GP

Almost certainly some ambulance chasing going on here.

 

[Which Tyler]

This is from a year ago, but I'd missed it - also doesn't suggest good things from Rylands Garth

Legal firm at centre of rugby union's concussion lawsuit being investigated

The law firm at the centre of rugby union’s concussion lawsuit are being investigated by the Solicitors Regulation Authority following allegations a former player was pressurised into joining the group claim.

www.bbc.co.uk

Particularly

He said that, despite telling Rylands Garth of a second contradictory diagnosis, they "still pressed me to sign up for the group action, sending multiple emails pressuring me".

He added: "To do so would have perpetrated a fraud on the court because the claimant's medical experts' diagnosis was found to be wrong.

 

[Ddanno]

I am shocked, shocked I say

 

[Ddanno]

This is starting to stink

RYLANDS GARTH LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

RYLANDS GARTH LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

 

[Ddanno]

Looks very much like an SPV to try and hoover up costs. Boardman is the only partner/lawyer and the firm was only set up in '22 so the claims on their website are rather hollow.

The registered office is basically a PO Box - lots of companies do it, but not reputable solicitors

Owes over a million quid in taxes. Still solvent, but I'd like to dig into the prepayments and debtors figures to see how much of that is real and how much is projected.

Absolute chancer that's found a goldmine imo.

Having worked with litigation funders for some time I'm surprised they're working with him, funders tend to be quite cautious.

 

[Which Tyler]

Looks very much like an SPV to try and hoover up costs.

What's an SPV when it's at home?

Is that the "commercial litigation funder" mentioned in the Guardian?

 

[Ddanno]

Sorry, single purpose vehicle. A company set up with one aim which is to either make a shitload of money, hold property for a time, or fail to do so and allow its directors and shareholders to wash their hands of any mess if it goes wrong.

This is what Rolands Garth looks like to me. Their sole partner won't even put his name to the firm which is smelly in itself. I don't know the name of the funder.

I would say they seem to be less diligent than the funders I've dealt with - the article hints that 200 odd cases haven't been properly vetted and disclosed which is odd when they're putting so much money on the line and even risking being joined to the proceedings.

 

[big ginger 8]

Judge criticises solicitor acting on behalf of players with brain injury lawsuits

The judge presiding over the two brain injury lawsuits in rugby league and union has issued an extraordinary criticism of the solicitor acting on behalf of the injured players

www.theguardian.com

Lawyers for the claimants seem a touch amateur, despite "being backed by a commercial litigation funder"

I'm also calling bullshit on "the firm lacked the resources to comply with the impossible task of providing full medical records for every one of the players involved" since GDPR - it takes the resources of... 1 letter to the individual's GP

Champerty and maintenence are fully legal in the UK so commercial litigation funders aren't rare over there. They're a pretty big industry.

I don't know how different the process is in E&W but that's not how GDPR has affected the discovery process in Ireland. Getting medical records is a notoriously painful, long and difficult process and is usually processed under the Freedom of Information Act instead.

 

[Which Tyler]

Champerty and maintenence are fully legal in the UK so commercial litigation funders aren't rare over there. They're a pretty big industry.

I don't know how different the process is in E&W but that's not how GDPR has affected the discovery process in Ireland. Getting medical records is a notoriously painful, long and difficult process and is usually processed under the Freedom of Information Act instead.

I've no idea how rare or otherwise they are - it's the ethics I question.

As for GDPR - as a medical provider - once a request has been received, I've a legal duty to provide a copy of the patient's notes within 28 days, free of charge, no excuses.
If burdensome, then I can charge printing and postage costs - complete with receipt. Generally it's emailing a pdf (password protected), or patient turning up with a USB stick.

 

[big ginger 8]

I've no idea how rare or otherwise they are - it's the ethics I question.

As for GDPR - as a medical provider - once a request has been received, I've a legal duty to provide a copy of the patient's notes within 28 days, free of charge, no excuses.
If burdensome, then I can charge printing and postage costs - complete with receipt. Generally it's emailing a pdf (password protected), or patient turning up with a USB stick.

The ethics is something that is pretty thoroughly debated and why it's illegal in Ireland. There are pros and cons on both sides for example it arguably gives access to justice to claimants who otherwise could not afford it and from what I understand it is a tightly regulated industry in the UK.

I'm well aware of the time limits imposed by GDPR. However, I'm just telling you that from my experience as a solicitor used to dealing with personal injuries and medical negligence that is not how it plays out here as another country where GDPR applies.

 

[Which Tyler]

FTR - I've had further feedback on that same comment elsewhere - and the difficulty seems to come down to the subject access request coming from the patient's representative, not the patient themself - which is much more limited in scope, as their only eligible for "only the information that is pertinent to your need". Which means a GP sitting down, knowing what your need is, and going through the patient's entire history and deciding what is or isn't "pertinent to your need". GPs famously loving paperwork, and having loads of spare time to dedicate to this, whilst not being paid a penny to do so.

As a chiropractor, we don't have this, and we just send the whole lot, because anything biomechanical could be pertinent. We also generally get requests direct from the patient.
As a side-note, you'd be amazed how many access requests from solicitors don't come with any actual consent to release the notes; which is the biggest hold-up I've come across.

 

[Ddanno]

Champerty and maintenence are fully legal in the UK so commercial litigation funders aren't rare over there. They're a pretty big industry.

Whilst legal, they still carry enormous risk, all the funders I've worked with want 60%+ cases after a barrister has gone over the details before they'll even consider taking it on (other than the funder that turned out to be a pyramid scheme and collapsed. Oops a daisy). This outfit sound like chancers

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Shane Christie, rugby concussion campaigner who wanted to donate his brain, found dead at 39

Former Maori All Blacks player Shane Christie, who had wanted his brain to be studied after suffering from multiple concussions, has died aged 39

www.theguardian.com

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Just a side note here, I went to my doctors regarding an issue with my hip and mentioned when I’d fractured it previously playing rugby and there were no records at all of the break, scans, rehab etc. I then mentioned my back and herniated discs and they also didn’t have the records of those injuries.

When I asked the doctor said that the hospitals didn’t always used to send over their scans/ treatments etc.

So I wonder if the medical records are very incomplete if players had club physios/ doctors/ seen a GP and or went to a hospital.