Ireland World Cup 2019 Thread aka "Quarter Final 4"

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by The Alpha Bro, May 19, 2019.

  1. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    It was well over a year ago, he's improved massively since.
     
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  3. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Again I don't dis agree that he is possibly 2nd best option. As I said his positioning in any game I've seen him as a 15 has been poor alot of times. Not sure what big thing about it is there. Snoop actually picked the Munster game when he got a fabulous try but equally alot of kicks found space for us that day. Equally in RDS this year he was very insure and Haley actually looked the more comfortable by a bit in terms of positioning. Now before that is read wrong I'm not saying Haley was much better player or anything but just his more consistent playing at 15 stood to him and less kicks found space.
    And I have never said by the way he is poor defensively. Anyone who knows rugby knows there is huge difference between defensive and position senses. I'd say Kearney is poor to average as defender but world class as a positional guy and organisation. See positional game is not just being in right area, which Larmour struggles with at times, but also putting others in right area.
    I would add I rate Conway higer than him in this area as well as Haley but none are up to required part at moment. Yes Larmour is electric as a player and if he played 15 I wouldn't be arguing
     
  4. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Not massively as I pointed out in RDS 2 weeks ago he let alot hit the grass.
    As I said it is a weakness in his game. Every option has weaknesses. As I said a fabulous player but I think ask most Leinster fans where he is best and most say as a winger. And that is because there is strengths in his game that are suited to there
     
  5. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Have to keep checking this isn't me and muff arguing RK v Zebo... Very similar stuff!
     
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  6. snoopy snoopy dog dog

    snoopy snoopy dog dog Senior Member

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    He was 20 years old in that game and played excellently.

    It seems to me that somebody decided that he's not great positionally and it became an echo chamber around various forums. News flash: there isn't a fullback as good positionally as Rob Kearney. That's not a stick to beat Jordan Larmour with. Larmour brings different skills to the table and has performed really well. He's played plenty of knockout games in the 15 shirt and I have no doubt that he can do so if required for Ireland.
     
  7. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    The difference is I have no alternative. Is Larmour next best option at 15. Quite possible. But doesn't exclude weaknesses
     
  8. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Snoop. That is exactly what I am saying. I'm not beating lad up and have said just simply in my opinion in that aspect Conway may be slightly better and Haley is proven to be better due to being 15 exclusive.
    On my basis I'm using even game 2 weeks ago. We found grass 56% more than we did aginst Treviso and something similar compared to last few games.
    It was 1 area of our game in RDS which we aimed with and had success.
    I've never said he is not a good player or would struggle for Ireland just it's a weak area of his.

    And in that game years ago yes he was excellent but still positionally struggled then to slightly. Alpha mentioned Zebo. He is similar in some ways. You may think he's better and fair enough bit point being both were very good 15s and could do job for Ireland but questionable as a positional general
     
  9. snoopy snoopy dog dog

    snoopy snoopy dog dog Senior Member

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    If I had a chance to pick between Mike Haley and Jordan Larmour at fullback 100 times, I'd choose Larmour 100 times. He's a far superior player to Haley.

    What you get with Rob Kearney is excellence under a high ball, brilliant positioning and never losing the ball in contact. What you lose out on is an attacking game although he attacked quite well towards the end of the season.

    What you get with Jordan Larmour is an inverse of Rob Kearney. Okay at the defensive aspects but you can't give him any space to run back or he'll rip you apart.

    Mike Haley is Rob Kearney-lite.

    Andrew Conway probably bridges the gap in styles between Kearney and Larmour better than anyone. Good attacker and good defensively but he's a poor kicker. Lacks game time at the position.

    If Ireland were in a World Cup semi final (fanciful I know), Kearney, Larmour, Conway, Stockdale, Addison and Henshaw would all have to be injured before Haley would play. I've nothing against him but he's hardly top level. If Munster had better options at wing, Andrew Conway would shift to 15 and Haley would be out of the starting team. Good solid provincial player but I don't think he's more than that.
     
  10. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Again I never said I would select Haley over Larmour.
    And have actually said everything your pointing out. Larmour has strengths of course and is an attacking threat.
    I think Haley is better than you rate but again not a starter although I'd have hom ahead of Addison and Henshaw as a 15 by a distance.

    And agree with assessment of Conway.
     
  11. Jockstap

    Jockstap Senior Member

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    He's demonstrated that every time he's played for Ireland. Not just fielding the ball but also defensive decision making. Even recently in the Saracens game for their first try.
     
  12. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague Senior Member

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    If I was Irish I'd feel best about Conway wearing the 15 shirt if Kearney went down.
     
  13. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I reckon the order is most likely RK - Larmour - Stockdale (maybe) - Conway. Schmidt has generally picked 15s you'd be reluctant to kick to, Conway isn't that, he's not a fantastic runner like Larmour, his positioning isn't close to Rob Kearney's (no one's in world rugby really is), neither is he as strong in contact and if he tries to kick it back at you you're virtually guaranteed to win that territorial battle.

    I think there's few enough things Conway does better than Larmour to be totally honest, positioning? Maybe but definitely not significantly, Larmour's panicked running style which sees people overrating his footwork slightly has the opposite effect in this regard I think. Aerially? Chasing the ball probably but that's not really the 15s job, defensively Larmour is very good there and the last guy you want find his feet after taking a high ball. Obviously with ball in hand you pick Larmour as well as kicking even though it's not a strong point of his either.

    For me Conway is a bit of a litmus test for an international back three player, if you're better than him you're international class, if you're worse you're not. I rate him as our third best available 15 and 5th best wing (4th best in the squad) if he makes the plane it's as the 31st man. He's not a guy I'd want to see playing 15 against England, Wales or NZ, I think he'd do a job against anyone else.
     
  14. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    I think it's more a case what do you base your full backs primary threats as. Offensive or defensive. Like Larmour is streets ahead of RK attacking too but is still only 23 shirt at best at the moment.

    Stockdale has stated yesterday he wants his future at 15 too. And has the build and class to be best of all options there
     
  15. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague Senior Member

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    That surprises me, I know he's played bits of 13 and 15 before but I've always seen him more in the category of big, hard-running winger. Him playing 15 seems weird, like Rieko Ioane playing there.
     
  16. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 Senior Member

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    He played most of his youth rugby at 13 and 15, which isn’t exactly unusual given he’d get more ball there. He’s got certain qualities that suit playing 15, he’s got a howitzer of a boot, great at attacking high balls and would probably have more license to act as a strike runner but there’s certainly other problems to playing there like positioning and tackling. He could play there but I’d want him playing 15 full time at Ulster first.

    I think players tend to be quite poor at knowing what position they should play. There constantly seems to be some back wanting to play more 10, 13 or 15 because it’s where they played schools and they had more ball and/or time and space. This being despite the fact they’re more suited to another position at professional level.
     
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  17. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    This.

    I'm open to the idea of Stockdale at fullback but realistically it'd be Larmour coming on the wing to replace him. I think Larmour is better on the wing but even still if you have a choice between Earls-Stockdale-Larmour and Stockdale-Larmour-Earls I'd go for the latter just based off pro level game time there. If Stockdale plays there during the warmups and looks good though I'd love to see us try him there.

    As for Henshaw, please no. If we're investing gametime in someone at 15 please let it be Carbery or Stockdale, the players with skillsets actually suited to playing there.
     
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  18. bushytop

    bushytop Senior Member

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    Just read that James McCarthy is ‘returning home’ to join the Dragons from the Munster academy. Just wondering what the Irish viewpoint on him and this move is. Seems like he done ok since switching his allegiance to Ireland a couple of years ago (more so with Ireland age grade than with Munster tbh).

    Obviously this move doesn’t necessarily mean he is switching his allegiance yet again back to Wales but I’d imagine it a likelihood. Good move for the Dragons what with losing Hallam Amos but will it be considered a loss (at all) for Munster and/or Ireland?
     
  19. snoopy snoopy dog dog

    snoopy snoopy dog dog Senior Member

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    I heard homesickness played a part in his move back to Wales. He obviously had talent since he played for the u20s as an u19. Didn't overly impress though. Hope the move works out for him. The change of scenery will do him good.
     
  20. bushytop

    bushytop Senior Member

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    Us Welsh boys rarely settle comfortably outside of the land of our fathers... anyone would think it a paradise or something, which is more than merely ironic if you have ever visited South Wales.
     
  21. profitius

    profitius Senior Member

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    Very talented lad. Disappointed to see him go.

    Munster have too many wingers I'd say. One of the young lads, Calvin Nash, barely played at all this season. McCarthy would be younger than him and still only academy so I can see why he didn't want to wait around.
     
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