Italy v Ireland

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 16 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

How much more blood will Paddy Wallace have to spill for Ireland in this championship, there's devotion to duty but this above and beyond![/b]

None, hopefully. The only reason for his selection should be the kicking option, but he isn't even asked to do that.

Darcy ... NOW! I'll even give up asking for Horgan's return if Wallace goes.

p.s. Horgan must come back - again, no cross kick from ROG today. Is he storing it up for Mark Jones at the Millennium?

 

[MunsterMan]

The cross kick worked pretty well against the Argies for Bowe's try a few months ago Shtove. I think Wallace deserves at least 60 mins at 12 to prove himself. He offers things which D'arcy just can't IMO.

Horgan, No thanks!

 

[RC]

Gah!
How did such a high scoring match end up being such a borefest?!
Where was the Ireland of last week?

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 15 2009, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 16 2009, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How much more blood will Paddy Wallace have to spill for Ireland in this championship, there's devotion to duty but this above and beyond![/b]

None, hopefully. The only reason for his selection should be the kicking option, but he isn't even asked to do that.

Darcy ... NOW! I'll even give up asking for Horgan's return if Wallace goes.

p.s. Horgan must come back - again, no cross kick from ROG today. Or is he keeping it stored for Mark Jones at the Millennium?
[/b][/quote]

Ah now? And kick out Bowe or Fitzgerald when Horhan's been off form this year?

Hardly seems fair.

 

[JohnBE]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 15 2009, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If people couldn't see O'Gara was terrible today, god knows whats wrong with you (looking at you JohnBE). In the first half, he kicked the ball out on the full, then promptly didn't send a restart 10m. Later on in the half, he had his kick charged down and got yellow carded. He was constantly running down blind alleys, getting turned over a few times, and knowing him missed quite a few tackles!

In the second half, he improved somewhat, put in a couple of decent touch finders etc. but still ran into dead ends and was generally average. Those two combined = poor, very poor.[/b]

#


take ogara out..and put in godman.. and then you'll see how good O'Gara is.. the ability to control a game.. and create danger is very hard to explain but the great fly halfs do it. Jones and O'Gara in europe.

O'Gara did make some errors but it's about more than that.. he has the "it" factor, believe me I used to think he was highly highly overrated, but when you watch alot of rugby and other fly halfs you can then appreciate his ability, and those two little dinks to touch were excellent..right in the italian corner , he also really gets the back line moving, he has genuine flair(not so much individual flair) but he gets everyone around him moving..

Take O'Gara out of ireland..and then we'll see how they play

 

[dullonien]

Just because there's a lack of good 10's in Britain and especially Ireland, don't confuse O'Gara's display today as acceptable. He can be very good on his day, but he hasn't been for a while. Yes he's the best Ireland have at the moment, and he can't loose his place because there's no-one to step in, but don't start comparing him with Godman etc. If you want to compare him to anyone, compare him with Carter, the way a top fly half should perform.

This year has been really dissapointing at fly-half, neither Hook nor Cipriani have developed as they should (in fact they've both gone backwards), but the way O'gara's been playing, I'd prefer an off form Hook, and definately Stephen Jones who put his terrible kicking against Scotland behind him yesterday. So far, Stephen Jones is miles ahead for the lions 10 shirt, just because there's no-one else challenging, pitty!

 

[JohnBE]

I wouldn't say miles ahead, but currently Jones is the no.1 choice for the lions, has to be.. but honestly Hook is not a great fly half, good at the basics but look.. with the ospreys you have many of the same backs.. and yet.. boring rugby?.. where as with wales it's fairy?.. why?.. the jones effect

 

[durbutter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Feb 15 2009, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 15 2009, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If people couldn't see O'Gara was terrible today, god knows whats wrong with you (looking at you JohnBE). In the first half, he kicked the ball out on the full, then promptly didn't send a restart 10m. Later on in the half, he had his kick charged down and got yellow carded. He was constantly running down blind alleys, getting turned over a few times, and knowing him missed quite a few tackles!

In the second half, he improved somewhat, put in a couple of decent touch finders etc. but still ran into dead ends and was generally average. Those two combined = poor, very poor.[/b]

#


take ogara out..and put in godman.. and then you'll see how good O'Gara is.. the ability to control a game.. and create danger is very hard to explain but the great fly halfs do it. Jones and O'Gara in europe.

O'Gara did make some errors but it's about more than that.. he has the "it" factor, believe me I used to think he was highly highly overrated, but when you watch alot of rugby and other fly halfs you can then appreciate his ability, and those two little dinks to touch were excellent..right in the italian corner , he also really gets the back line moving, he has genuine flair(not so much individual flair) but he gets everyone around him moving..

Take O'Gara out of ireland..and then we'll see how they play
[/b][/quote]


na, thats a load of bullsh1t, spun by the pundits in ireland. O GARA IS NOT A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE. on form he is good. not the best in the world, just good.
he had a bad day and if people can't see that then there is something wrong. could have been the italians rushing up, or poor service whatever. bad day.

having said that he is not as bad as many people make out. he has great distribution at times, is fairly consistant out of hand and with a dead ball. 8/10 times he is more than competant and does not choke nearly as much as people say.

in conclusion, o gara is "a good player, not a great player Bill".

 

[JohnBE]

ahh "well john..wouldn't you think now that O'Gara..IS infact a good player and deserves his place on the irish team"

"well bill I think that ehhhh he's a good player bill"




and I just have to disagree, he has something about him.. that jones as too and no other outhalf in europe as at the moment, it's the unknown factor and also O'Gara's record is pretty exceptional in all competitions.

Why O'Gara is so good, fundamentally, is his very quick and accurate passing and ability to put other players into gaps, simple as.. and then when necessary, controls the game with the boot

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Feb 15 2009, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Feb 15 2009, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If people couldn't see O'Gara was terrible today, god knows whats wrong with you (looking at you JohnBE). In the first half, he kicked the ball out on the full, then promptly didn't send a restart 10m. Later on in the half, he had his kick charged down and got yellow carded. He was constantly running down blind alleys, getting turned over a few times, and knowing him missed quite a few tackles!

In the second half, he improved somewhat, put in a couple of decent touch finders etc. but still ran into dead ends and was generally average. Those two combined = poor, very poor.[/b]

#


take ogara out..and put in godman.. and then you'll see how good O'Gara is.. the ability to control a game.. and create danger is very hard to explain but the great fly halfs do it. Jones and O'Gara in europe.

O'Gara did make some errors but it's about more than that.. he has the "it" factor, believe me I used to think he was highly highly overrated, but when you watch alot of rugby and other fly halfs you can then appreciate his ability, and those two little dinks to touch were excellent..right in the italian corner , he also really gets the back line moving, he has genuine flair(not so much individual flair) but he gets everyone around him moving..

Take O'Gara out of ireland..and then we'll see how they play
[/b][/quote]

Chris White did for the final 10 of the 1st half... And Ireland atually played much better.

*cough*

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Feb 16 2009, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I wouldn't say miles ahead, but currently Jones is the no.1 choice for the lions, has to be.. but honestly Hook is not a great fly half, good at the basics but look.. with the ospreys you have many of the same backs.. and yet.. boring rugby?.. where as with wales it's fairy?.. why?.. the jones effect[/b]

Nope, it's the Gatland factor. Hook's having an off spell at the moment, his previous excellent goal kicking has fallen into hit and miss (like Jones & O'Gara) and his running skills seems to have reduced to running sideways. But his general play and organising of the backline has actually improved, not to mention his defence, which is pretty solid nowerdays.

Anyway, I didn't want to reduce this thread to a O'Gara v Hook thing, just wanted to point out that O'Gara isn't playing well atall in alot of the games I've seen. Even last week, he missed numerous tackles and his kicking was woefull.

 

[JohnBE]

that was when they did no backline play at all..and played forwards rugby.. how does O'Gara's presence improve or disimprove forwards rugby?

 

[Bullitt]

Because as the general of the backs, surely his job is to get the said backline involved perhaps?

A crazy concept, I know.

 

[JohnBE]

but he wasn't on the pitch..so they played only forward rugby:S.. so how can he marshell the backline..if he is on the bench?

 

[dullonien]

Are you on about when he was yellow carded? I'm a bit lost.

 

[Bullitt]

Me too.

From what I remember... Ireland put under early Italian pressure. O'Choke makes a multitude of mistakes. Ireland score a breakaway try. O'Choke gets binned. Ireland improve. 2nd half begins as O'Choke returns and game gets boring. Italy get tired. Ireland use fitness to finish off ther Azurri.

When in all that lot did O'Choke ever look remotely useful, apart from using his arse as a splinter cushion just before halftime?

 

[shazbooger]

You see what you want to see Mite.

Funny I saw O'Gara go to the bin, and once stringer came on the ball was flying out from the breakdown. Ireland still kept going inside though with Ferris, O'Connell, Heaslip all carrying the ball well. The ball speeded up and with it, the amount of phases Ireland went though.

Italy's defense makes it extremely hard to get the balls to the wings. Its kind of simple, and Kidney himself explained it right after the match. Where France drift and so allow you to fling the ball wide (with the intention of pushing you towards the touchline), Italy's outside backs come in to cut off that avenue. So Ireland appeared more adventurous against France.

The game itself got boring because of the error count combined with the disaster that became the scrum.

 

[durbutter]

Was very impressed with Ferris today. What a beast. and i donno if anyone one else noticed this, but he was laughing and smiling all the way through Ireland Call. Must ahve seen o leary's smiley team photo.

 

[shazbooger]

You had to laugh, it was one of the worst renditions of any "anthem" Ive seen in a long time. You either laugh or walk over and smack the conductor.

Agree on Ferris through. Personally I thought he outshone the rest of the backrow players. He's been a real find.

 

[dullonien]

lol yeh, the Irish anthem was appalling. I'm guessing the conductor was going too slow, meaning averyone in the crowd + the players were half a verse in front by the end, then they added a repeat of the chorus at the end, where there usually isn't one! They sometimes do that with the Welsh anthem aswell, drives me fu**ing nuts!