Luke Watson

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by shiznit, May 17, 2007.

  1. shiznit

    shiznit Guest

    Hey guys...
    just wanting to know what people(SA fans in particular) think of all the fuss around the selection of Luke Watson in the SA training squad.

    apparently the SA selectors said hes not good enough because of his size so hes missed out so far. some people say he wasnt picked because his old man was a top springbok who ditched the old SARFU during apartheid and played in the coloured competiton.

    now the Govt & SARFU have put him into the training squad disregarding Jake White and the selectors thoughts because they say he deserves it.

    i thought he should have been in the boks a couple of years ago especially when Burger was out with a neck injury. do you think his non-selection has anything to do with his father?? and does selection by a 3rd party set a dangerous precident??
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  3. Dumbo

    Dumbo Guest

    Good question Shiznit.

    For mine he's easily good enough to be there.
    You could almost put a world class squad together with guys that just don't seem to cut it with thier local selectors...
  4. Boggle

    Boggle Guest


    I hate this, I hate it so much.

    Why couldn't they just pick him in a normal situation which doesn't involve any contraversy over his selection, I believe he's a good player but this needs to stop.

    All I ever wanted for him is to have a chance at the bok squad, that's all. If it didn't happen under whites' rule then under the new bok coach after the world cup would have been fine too.

    Now it it seems as if it could cuase quite a stirr in the whole team and coaching setup, especially with SA rugby breathing down white's neck to "maintain sanity".

    I'm happy for Luke I really am, but this probably isn't the best way to get into the team, I heard people say this effectively makes him the first white qouta player, which was actually quite funny. (*except of course for the fact that he was picked on merit and nothing else*).
  5. shiznit

    shiznit Guest

    Boogle... you could answer this question...
    why wasnt he picked earlier?? do you really think it had much to do with his dad??
  6. TheBokke

    TheBokke Guest

    I definately don`t think it is because of his dad. If anything he should have been picked last year when he was at the top of his game and they toured the U.K

    It is 2 things really that stop Jake from picking him. Jake has always stuck by his philsopy that he prefers flankers who are ball carriers and better lineout options, which I don`t really agree with. Luckily Buger allows him to play with this back 3 combination.

    Jake had a personal issue with him even when he was coaching the U-21 squad that won the world cup. Appparently he sent him home from the training squad for a bad attitude, since then they ahve never seen eye to eye, and he did not cover himself in glory last year when he spat out his dummy to the press I think that really rammed it home for Jake.

  7. shiznit

    shiznit Guest

    ohh cool... thats what i was really looking for... i really couldnt see Jake White holding a grudge against his dad. but from all that i heard that was the only thing that made sense.
  8. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Guest

    When Luke was with EP Jake told the coach of EP to move Luke to hooker and Luke was very upset about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  9. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Guest

    And did you know Watson can benchpress 160kg
  10. Boggle

    Boggle Guest

    I just beliee this is all so stupid, I know luke got ****** becuase white insisted on playing him at hooker instead of flanker back in the U21 side, but that's years ago, they should have BOTH left it dead and burried by know.

    Also, I don't agree with white on what Lukes ability to carry up the ball, he's an excellent ball carrier.

    I don't tend to get on the "HATE WHITE" bandwagon, I think he's a really good coach, this whole mess is just starting to annoy me. :(
  11. Sharkie

    Sharkie Guest

    Western Cape premier Ebrahim Rasool's statement that rugby star Luke Watson is a "black player" overshadows a billionaire rugby club created by two of his uncles, Valens and Ronnie Watson. Luke, captain of Cape Town's Stormers, is son of Dan "Cheeky" Watson, erstwhile rugby star, and anti-apartheid activist who refused to play in the Springbok team,

    As Rasool put it, Cheeky Watson "chose to play his rugby on the dusty pot-holed fields of the Eastern Cape's townships, Luke comes from a historically disadvantaged community". Last week, Luke Watson found himself at the centre of huge controversy after South African Rugby Union Head, Oregan Hoskins, over-ruled Springbok coach Jake White and included Luke Watson on a list of 45 players invited to a Springbok training camp this week

    The row, which has torn at the nation's very fabric, overlooks the successes of one of the most spectacularly successful black economic empowerment (BEE) entities in the country, little-known Vulisango. Today, at current market prices, Vulisango's stake in an entity called Jaganda, which holds shares in JSE-listed Simmer & Jack, is worth R1,4bn.

    The shareholders in Vulisango include Valens Watson, and retired rugby players Archie Mkele and Zola Yeye, along with a number of stalwarts, some of who also have Eastern Cape connections, viz, Gibson Njenje, Siviwe Mapisa, Margaret Ndlovu, Baba Njenje, Nozuko Pikoli, and Ayanda Sisulu.

    Yeye, Springbok team manager, found himself in the middle of the Luke Watson controversy, when yesterday Yeye refuted media reports that White had been instructed not to talk to the media against his will.

    The Luke Watson controversy is in good company, but on a different timeframe. Jaganda's origins can be traced back to a rights issue by Simmer & Jack in early 2005, when the late Brett Kebble injected cash into Simmer & Jack. In classic Kebble fashion, loans owed by Simmer & Jack to a number of Kebble entities were converted into new Simmer & Jack shares vended into Jaganda, which then issued preference shares to Kebble's key company, JCI.

    Seen another way, Simmer & Jack was allowed to effectively kill its debt by indirectly issuing preference shares in Jaganda to JCI. The actual shares in Jaganda were then held 51% by Vulisango, with the balance of 49% held by the Simmer & Jack "management grouping", Gordon Miller, Roger Kebble, Graham Wanblad, John Berry and Ronnie Watson, to the tune of 9,8% each. Terrible squabbling subsequently broke out between the two camps, and Ronnie Watson crossed to the Vulisango camp, where his brother Valens already was.

    On May 18 2006, the internecine battle was finally resolved when the management shareholders declared that they would sell their 49% interest in Jaganda in exchange for up to 100m Simmers shares, currently worth just over R700m. There is, of course, a fourth Watson brother, Gavin, but he has spent his time pursuing other interesting business propositions.

    Things have been quiet at Simmer & Jack, a gold miner and uranium hopeful, for many months. But the noise on the rugby front appears to have a long way to go. It has been noted that White did not select Luke Watson for the Springbok tour, in November last year, preferring Solly Tyibilika, a real black player. .

    Donald Lee, spokesperson on sport and recreation for the Democratic Alliance, the official opposition, says that the issue is no longer about race - "that is just a smokescreen. As with every other sphere in which the ANC has imposed its political programme of transformation, the issue is now about how connected you are to the ANC. It is simply disgusting".

    Lee argues strenuously that Luke Watson is a player of great talent. "He has the ANC to thank for tainting his career with the ruling party's political agenda, something that will no doubt now plague him for the rest of his professional career as a rugby player".
  12. QKXV

    QKXV Guest

    Very interesting story Sharkie and welcome to the forum, where does this come from?
  13. Wako

    Wako Guest

    This sheds some new light on the Luke Watson issue. It will be interesting to see how things work out for Luke in the future
  14. Watson is yet another victim to the SA government's hands-on governance of White's springboks.

    Personally, I love the guy. He plays for the right team (Stormers/Province), he's a hell of a flanker, and he's a great leader as well.

    And, while there may be differences between Cheeky Watson, Luke, and Jake White, the fact of the matter is that Watson doesn't fit in with White's style of rugby. Plain and simple.

    It happens all the time that great players who do not fit in with one coach's particular sports dogma get left out, justly or unjustly. But the travesty isn't with Watson, it's with the ANC pushing Watson there. He had a shitty first half against Samoa (first game jitters?) and overall he didn't live up to the pressure or hype.

    If everything goes the way politicians want it to go in SA, Luke will have his chance. I suggest we wait until then.

    On that point, how's HC and Magner's Cup? I've never followed that before as a Southern Hemisphere rugby fan, but with all the SA players moving up there with the quotas and other nonesuch, I'll think I'll need to follow it now...
  15. Butch

    Butch Guest

    Luke Watson isn't a team player, he never has been and never will be! The players dont like him and the last thing you want in your team is negative energy! As an example when he left the sharks the players and coaches basically through a party cause he was gone! So thats the underlying reason jake doesnt want him on the team so i guess province are left with the burden that is luke watson!
  16. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    ^ :bravo:

    At long last, I`ve found a kindred spirit on TRF. My exact self same views there Butch. Even though I`ve called a truce on Luke in the interests of Bok rugby for now. And even though he plays for the right team, like American Bok rightly points out.
  17. Rockstar

    Rockstar Guest

    There are so many better flankers out there in SA rugby than Luke.......

    it's only because the ANC make it a racist everything they do.
  18. QKXV

    QKXV Guest

    I have to say that the recent north south derby in the currie cup showed luke up for what he is, a very hot headed, emotion driven young man.

    Emotions makes people do stupid things and his constant chatting had him not pay enough attention to his playing and captaining the side. IMO Province was the better side on the day against the bulls, but Luke's directionless leadership cost them the game.
  19. Rockstar

    Rockstar Guest

    Luke Luke much to learn so little time..
  20. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    Exactly QK. And that`s been my main gripe from a purely playing perspective on Watson. Ever notice him do ANYTHING constructive in the really big games against the powerhouse packs? Just seems to either lose the plot, like in the WP/Bulls game, or disappears into complete oblivion.

    Make no mistake, the talent`s there alright, but he remains a young `un, and a bit of a hothead. And he`s never struck me as the type of loose forward that will live or die for the cause. Guys like Burger, Van Heerden, Floors and Venter are the type of loosies I enjoy more- guys who can give as good as they get, guys who don`t shrink back from a physical challenge, and guys that won`t lose their cool in the heat of battle.
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