MMA/UFC thread

[nickdnz]

I'd be suprised if Jnr Dos Santos cracked the top 75 heavyweight boxers in the world...

Boxing is a great sport and I am a big fan but saying boxers are better strikers then MMA fighters is kind of retarded. People are always like put an MMA in a boxing match and he wouldn't last a second, well the same can be said for boxers in an MMA match so really the argument is really not applicable. Conveniently people always bring up Mercer vs Sylvia but I can bring up Couture vs Toney which for me was basically the same thing. For one the stance a boxer uses is different to that of an MMA fighter because he doesn't have to worry about sprawling for takedown's, having to work from the clinch and checking leg kicks.

Personally, I think the best strikers in the world are kickboxers, preferably guys that do K1. Guys like Semy Schilt, Badr Hari, Remy Bonjasky, Tyrone Sponge, Gohkan Saki, Peter Aerts, etc. Not to mention when these guys fight for the K1 Grand-Prix they end up fighting 3 to 4 kickboxing matches in one night to win the championship. Overeem actually has excellent striking for an MMA fighter and he won the last K1 Grand Prix although in my opinion he got lucky because of the draw he received and the fact that Badr Hari was suspended.

How did Toney lose? Oh that's right, on the ground being choked out...We're talking about striking. A lot of MMA guys have very little boxing ability - people are talking about Mark Hunt as an awsome striker - he has perfected the flail, but in his two boxing matches he managed a loss and a draw...

I'd never say a top boxer would be especially successful in MMA - chances are he just hasn't added enough wrestling/BJJ to be especially competitive, so a take down is pretty much game over. with that said - I'd wage just about any decent competitive boxer would beat an MMA fighter standing up.

 

[psychic duck]

I'd be suprised if Jnr Dos Santos cracked the top 75 heavyweight boxers in the world....

To be fair, heavyweight boxing is very thin at the moment. Manuel Charr (who was rubbish) got a World ***le shot recently. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody could take up the sport and progress quite far with training and practice within just 2 or 3 years. In the UK, there is a fighter called Martin Rogan who only started Boxing past the age of 30 but got up to Commonwealth ***le level and beat former British champions (Matt Skelton), European champions who have had World ***le matches (Audley Harrison, Albert Sosnowski). Okay, not great opposition, but considering the age he started boxing he went quite far. Bernard Hopkins, Sergio Martinez and Rocky Marciano all also started quite late as adults in their 20's so it wouldn't surprise me if he could go far after a few years practice.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I'd be suprised if Jnr Dos Santos cracked the top 75 heavyweight boxers in the world...



How did Toney lose? Oh that's right, on the ground being choked out...We're talking about striking. A lot of MMA guys have very little boxing ability - people are talking about Mark Hunt as an awsome striker - he has perfected the flail, but in his two boxing matches he managed a loss and a draw...

I'd never say a top boxer would be especially successful in MMA - chances are he just hasn't added enough wrestling/BJJ to be especially competitive, so a take down is pretty much game over. with that said - I'd wage just about any decent competitive boxer would beat an MMA fighter standing up.

Are we talking about in a boxing match then of course I agree with you that an MMA fighter would lose in a boxing match. However, I do not agree that a competitive boxer would beat any MMA fighter in a fight standing because Boxer's are one dimensional fighters. Some Boxers would actually do terrible in an MMA/kickboxing rules standup war because like people manipulate MMA rules to their advantage boxers do the same thing with their rules.

Floyd Mayweather Jr's. Philly Shell Defence, for instance, is terrible for MMA as it exposes you to kicks and other non-conventional strikes Muhammad Lawal (who trains with Mayweather Jr.) has tried employing it his past couple of fights and it has worked out less then stellar for him. His last fight he got knocked out by a spinning back-fist to his exposed side.

The biggest reason in the past that MMA has been dominated by wrestling is because that is where the majority of the fighters originally came from; however, that is changing and you only need to look at the champions to see that strikers do dominate the UFC as well.

Flyweight - Demetrious Johnson - Grappler
Bantamweight - Dominick Cruz - Striker
Featherweight - Jose Aldo - Striker
Lightweight - Benson Henderson - Striker
Welterweight - GSP - Grappler (Albeit with very effective standup as well)
Middleweight - Anderson Silva - Striker
Light Heavyweight - Jon Jones - Grappler (Very effective standup as well)
Heavyweight - Cain Velasquez - Grappler

So really, you don't need to be a good wrestler to dominate MMA, what you need to be is the most complete fighter. TBH I would pay to see Anderson Silva go at it with Mayweather in a kickboxing rules match, even in MMA match and I think Anderson would keep the fight standing as well and wreck Mayweather with kicks and in the clinch.

I like boxing a lot but I don't pretend that they are the demi-gods of striking because fists are but one aspect and when you include clinch-work and kicks into the mix it changes the game entirely. Their have been a couple of boxer's that went and tried K1 and they all got their **** stomped in. Ray Mercer fought Musashi, who is nowhere near the top of the K1 circuit, a few years ago and got murdered with kicks for 15 minutes straight. He then fought Remy Bonjasky who kicked him in the head once and Mercer threw in the towel.

Here is a good Video of how well pure boxing works in a kickboxing/K1 fight

 

[admartian]

The leg kicks in that vid are vicious.l Most underutilised tool in combat sport. And lol at trying to close the distance only to be met by the Plomb and some knees to the face.

I still think a Kickboxer/Muay Thai fighter (Pettis, Bendo, etc) do etc will beat a boxer, striking, in an MMA setting. Especially muay thai; where the boxer can't hide in a clinch. Boxers would just get 'dirty-boxed' Randy Couture style up against the cage.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

The leg kicks in that vid are vicious.l Most underutilised tool in combat sport. And lol at trying to close the distance only to be met by the Plomb and some knees to the face.

I still think a Kickboxer/Muay Thai fighter (Pettis, Bendo, etc) do etc will beat a boxer, striking, in an MMA setting. Especially muay thai; where the boxer can't hide in a clinch. Boxers would just get 'dirty-boxed' Randy Couture style up against the cage.

you mean plum?

 

[Larksea]

omg I disagree completely. Top heavyweights of boxing would have their way with JDS in a boxing match. JDS's defense is horrible, especially his head movement. Imagine JDS vs wladimir or vitali, JDS's face would look even worse than it did when he fought Cain. He'd get jabbed from the first to last round unless he got tko'd in between.

He was dropped by Cain. If Cain can find his chin, you can bet that the top heavyweights would have no problem tagging him all day. Boxers box, that is what they do.

defending in boxing is easier than MMA by some margin, I really dont see that as an issue.

I mean in boxing you have large gloves which makes it easier to defend, your opponent has large gloves that are easier to defend against and you dont have to defend kicks, knees, elbos and takedowns.....

also note that as always it's not a good idea to judge anything/anyone on one fight, JDS has basically gone his whole MMA carrier without anyone even really being able to touch him. I expect him to come back a better fighter after that cane fight.

 

[Larksea]

interesting results from 158

GSP won as expected I guess, he dominated the strike stats. I didn't see the fight as I dont get the PPV but the after fight interview GSP's face looked a lot more banged up than Diaz's

hendricks beat Condit as I was hoping, I'm sure this guy will worry GSP. He can knock out anyone and I guess with this result showed he can win a decision against a top ranked fighter as well.

Patrick Cote vs. Bobby Voelker was an awesome fight on the prelims but the result kinda emphasizes one of the problems I see with UFC scoring using the 10 point must system Patrick Cote won because the judges gave him the 1st and 2nd rounds even though they were very close. Voelker dominated the 3rd round easily doing the most significant damage of the fight yet he still only got 1 more point for the round meaning Cote won 29-28 by all 3 judges.

I dont understand why they dont use more of the scope of the 10 point system and score rounds better representing how well the fighters did in the round and give more 10-8 10-7 and even 10-6 rounds

Prelims also exposed another name to watch - Jordan Mein

He handed Dan Miller his first ever stoppage loss, looked very composed. defended an early miller takedown. got up, worked miller on his feet and moved his stance around eventually finding hime for some nasty jabs. Knocked miller down and finished him easy.

TJ Dillashaw dominated as expected, he's a great fighter to watch as well

that makes it 3 dominant wins from 3 fights since losing the TUF final to Dodson.

 

[admartian]

I was really disappointed in Diaz - I thought he'd take the fight to GSP. We all knew what GSP was going to do, no surprises there.

Hopefully they don't make Ellenberger vs Hendricks as I think they're the best two to take out and finish GSP right now. As much as I am a Maia fan, I think he needs more time.

Next fight has to be Hendricks.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

defending in boxing is easier than MMA by some margin, I really dont see that as an issue.

I mean in boxing you have large gloves which makes it easier to defend, your opponent has large gloves that are easier to defend against and you dont have to defend kicks, knees, elbos and takedowns.....

also note that as always it's not a good idea to judge anything/anyone on one fight, JDS has basically gone his whole MMA carrier without anyone even really being able to touch him. I expect him to come back a better fighter after that cane fight.

Defense within boxing is not easier than mma. Its different, you cant compare the two. Same with kick boxers and thai style fighters. Defense within their art is not comparable to another art. Thats like saying defending in rugby is easier than american football.

My point in my original post was that, boxers have the best hands in the business. If you put JDS in a boxing ring with top heavyweights at this moment, theyll tear him apart. Just as if you would put a boxer in a cage.

 

[nickdnz]

Defense within boxing is not easier than mma. Its different, you cant compare the two. Same with kick boxers and thai style fighters. Defense within their art is not comparable to another art. Thats like saying defending in rugby is easier than american football.

My point in my original post was that, boxers have the best hands in the business. If you put JDS in a boxing ring with top heavyweights at this moment, theyll tear him apart. Just as if you would put a boxer in a cage.

Exactly. The big differencwe between defending in boxing and MMA - is space. MMA fighters find it very difficult to get used to defending from close range, which is a necessity in boxing. Similarily, boxers find it very difficult getting used to having to defend from a distance - as they are open to leg kicks and more importantly take downs (which no 5 week training camp will make a boxer compitant in BJJ). While there are transferable skills between the two, the differences mean that cross overs are rarely successful. What is more of an interesting thing to look at - is the level of international competition in terms of number of competing athletes and resources put into the sports.

 

[powerfulduck]

@ Larksea "hendricks beat Condit as I was hoping, I'm sure this guy will worry GSP. He can knock out anyone and I guess with this result showed he can win a decision against a top ranked fighter as well."

That fight needed 5 rounds, Hendricks either gassed or Condit had worked him out, rounds 4&5 sure would have been interesting. I actualy think Hendricks will be the man to dethrone GSP so maybe we'll get to see Condit v Hendricks over 5 rounds before long.

 

[admartian]

@ Larksea "hendricks beat Condit as I was hoping, I'm sure this guy will worry GSP. He can knock out anyone and I guess with this result showed he can win a decision against a top ranked fighter as well."

That fight needed 5 rounds, Hendricks either gassed or Condit had worked him out, rounds 4&5 sure would have been interesting. I actualy think Hendricks will be the man to dethrone GSP so maybe we'll get to see Condit v Hendricks over 5 rounds before long.

I think it might be Ellenberger. Seems more well conditioned and a bit more technical/less wild than Hendricks. They're pretty much the same guy, except I think Ellennberger is a tad more disciplined.

 

[james5000]

I think it might be Ellenberger. Seems more well conditioned and a bit more technical/less wild than Hendricks. They're pretty much the same guy, except I think Ellennberger is a tad more disciplined.

I think Hendricks is a better wrestler than Ellenberger. He is a bit more wild though, and they both hit hard. I don't think either beat GSP to be honest.

You have to be a gun wrestler to beat GSP I reckon, so i'd say Hendricks is the better bet.

 

[admartian]

I think Hendricks is a better wrestler than Ellenberger. He is a bit more wild though, and they both hit hard. I don't think either beat GSP to be honest.

You have to be a gun wrestler to beat GSP I reckon, so i'd say Hendricks is the better bet.

I wanna see both in a straight up wrestling match. Both look even to me more or less.

 

[powerfulduck]

You guys think GSP will survive their strikes? i'd like to think he will but they both hit very hard.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I don't think Hendricks has what it takes to deal with GSP. He was clearly getting the worst of it in the third round by Condit and GSP man-handled Condit for 5 straight rounds and weathered some significant strikes from Condit. Sure Hendricks has some solid takedowns but he was taking down Condit who is known for weak TD defence and when it hit the ground Condit was getting the better of him. What makes GSP such a dominant fighter is his solid TD's combined with his extensive knowledge of Jits and his Jits is top-notch, particularly his defensive Jits.

 

[lucky number 7]

Imtervasities jujitsu on this morning ... I spent last night on various Dublin night clubs sober trying to find two of the most elusive drunks in the world.

Got into bed at half 6 to a text from one of them saying he had found his way unbeknownst to him to Dundrum ... An area about 5 miles from the city centre. Horrible night.

Anyways looks like ill be in 85kg today provided I make the weight. 2 classes above last year but **** it.

 

[Larksea]

some awesome fights on the UFC on fuel even last weekend.

Brad Pickett vs. Mike Easton was an awesome fight
Conor McGregor looked like one to watch
Diego Brandao again looks really impressive, should be fighting higher up in the rankings next time
Ryan Couture vs. Ross Pearson when I saw this match up I had wondered if they had set this up so Couture got a beating, lets face it Pearson is not a nice opponent to have your UFC debut against, Coture looked good and even took the first round but it was only a matter of time till Pearson landed some power and when he did it was all over fast and Couture got hurt as I expected.
I really like Matt Mitrione but his fight was a letdown, not his fault.

main event Gegard Mousasi dominated but Ilir Latifi basically faught to lose, it became obvious from the start his only chance was to get it to the ground but he stood with him for 95% of the fight and had his face turned to a meat paddy. Bad gameplan pure and simple.

 

[admartian]

Brandao's submission was awesome.

 

[lucky number 7]

Mcgregor actually used to fight out of a gym in town here. Looks pretty tasty from what I've seen