Naughty Cruden staying in New Zealand

[Patchey]

I think England have some serious talent at fly half as well that guy for Bath on the weekend must be the fourth choice as well, along with Farrell, Burns and Cipriani I wouldn't be too envious.

Well sort of. We've finally got a good number of fly-halves performing well and looking like they're international standard but its nothing on the choice available to the All Blacks.

NZ Fly-halves:

Dan Carter: 100 caps, 1,442 points. When fit, world's best fly-half and would start in any other team on the planet.
Aaron Cruden: 35 caps, 254 points. When not drunk, arguably second best fly half in the world rugby.
Beauden Barrett: 23 caps, 70 points. Incredible potential, just needs to prove he can tears games up when starting.
Colin Slade: 12 caps, 65 points. A bit underrated IMO. Very good ball in hand, has started a RWC Final and is a much better game manager than given credit for.
Tom Taylor: 3 caps, 14 points. Does a job, has a very good boot and is reliable. Not many players make a debut against SA and look so unflustered.

English Fly-halves:

Owen Farrell: 25 caps, 271 points. Overrated but improving. Largely picked on his defense and his goal kicking, has no running game to speak of and poor passer.
George Ford: 2 caps, 0 points. Buckets of potential, but we have no idea if he'll perform internationally due to some terrible selection calls.
Freddy Burns: 5 caps, 57 points. Blows hot and cold. At his best, probably the most well rounded 10 in England. At his worst, absolutely abysmal.
Danny Cipriani: 8 caps, 52 points. Everyone calls him a maverick. Great in attack, now much better in defense. Dogged by past misbehaviour.
Stephen Myler: 1 cap, 2 points. Snore.

The comparison between the stats on caps and points alone is depressing, and once you've watched both sets of players it gets worse. NZ have depth at 10 featuring experience, versatility, youth and some genuinely world beating players. England's features lots of youth an potential but, outside of one player, hardly any international experience.

Taylor is about the most overated flyhalf in NZ rugby I dont rate him at all. I see he's got the call up behind Barrett and Slade. The only thing I will say about Taylor is he's an astute player. Other than that he's about as exciting to watch as a sloth as proved in the Crusaders campaign early in the season. A AB's flyhalf he is not.

I really would of thought Ihia West would of got a look in atleast.

West was really unlucky not to be picked up by a team at the start of the SR season and has suffered because of that IMO. I know he came in an did good at the Blues but you can't really show your true colours as a last minute, second choice fly-half. Hopefully he and Hickey, another good looking player, will get to battle it out for the ten jersey properly next season.

The groveling apology in the paper is a bit over the top... young lad went out, got drunk on a school night, woke up late for work and has paid the price.

Absolutely no need for the public humiliation of a lad who's otherwise been an exemplary professional.

Maybe, but he'll never do it again will he?

 

[goodNumber10]

Maybe, but he'll never do it again will he?

they said the same about Zac Guilford, and Norm Hewitt

but even so...

 

[Darwin]

Taylor is about the most overated flyhalf in NZ rugby I dont rate him at all. I see he's got the call up behind Barrett and Slade. The only thing I will say about Taylor is he's an astute player. Other than that he's about as exciting to watch as a sloth as proved in the Crusaders campaign early in the season. A AB's flyhalf he is not.

I really would of thought Ihia West would of got a look in atleast.

The great thing is we will now see how good Barrett actually is before the WC next year. Coming off the bench constantly and tearing up is a totally different thing to starting in SA.

As Nzlizard points out Taylor was very impressive on debut at 10 versus Australia last year. I'm not a big fan of him at 10, but he is someone who doesn't look to be overawed by the big occasion, and doesn't look like he will the AB's down if required....

Ihaia West has some talent, but I would question whether he is ready for Super Rugby, let alone test level. He is good with ball in hand, but he still needs to work on controlling the game, his defense needs a lot of work, and his goal-kicking hasn't been up to standard at all this year either. It would be surprised if he is on the AB's selectors radar at this stage.

Storm in a tea cup. What a player he is. I'm a big fan. Can't wait to see him in Top 14 after the WC

Unlikely. With Carter gone he will clearly be the AB's 1st choice 10 (he already is IMO), so I can't see him leaving. You are welcome to has Dan Carter though (he could do with retirement fund), and it wouldn't surprise me to see Tom Taylor and/or Colin Slade are heading in that direction too....

 

[Big Ewis]

Dan Carter back in France post 2015 ?...maybe in Perpignan again, Pro D2.

 

[nickdnz]

Ihaia West has some talent, but I would question whether he is ready for Super Rugby, let alone test level. He is good with ball in hand, but he still needs to work on controlling the game, his defense needs a lot of work, and his goal-kicking hasn't been up to standard at all this year either. It would be surprised if he is on the AB's selectors radar at this stage.

I agree that Ihaia West probably is no where on the All Blacks radar, but I think you're exaggerating saying he may not be ready for Super Rugby.

In this ITM Cup

His goal kicking has been fairly poor at 61% (many have been conversions from the sideline to be fair), while his tackling has been at 79% (a higher rate than Tom Taylor's this ITM Cup). Furthermore his tackling was almost exactly the same in Super Rugby at 78%, while he was kicking at 72% (ironically higher than Tom Taylor's kicking percentages in Super Rugby last year). I think he's actually a pretty tidy game manager. His running is obviously brilliant, but I think he has a good mind when to pass or when to plug the corners. Still early days so I'd like to see him get at least two or so more seasons of Super Rugby to improve before looking seriously at test selection.

I hope someone pays Daniel Carter a ludicrous amount of money after this RWC...maybe Toulon. They can give him some of the children's blood or baby's tears or w/e they were giving Wilkinson to stop him from breaking down all the time.

 

[FrenchFan]

Dan Carter back in France post 2015 ?...maybe in Perpignan again, Pro D2.

sure. They'll go back to Top14 with him playing

and Mourad at Toulon promised he would sign the mysterious Fab Four after the WC. I'd say they'll be quite a few ABs in the lot...he could pull it ...wouldn't put it past him..

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah I remember that of course, but Carter will be about 47 by that time with 7 children and 4 ex-wives. Possibly a drug addiction by then too...almost completely bald, and more injuries added to the old carcass. I think Boudjellal has somebody else in mind. Or maybe he'll modify that Fantastic Four concept, it was just smt to feed the media at the time...I don't think Dan Carter, Toulon may pick up guys from the SH who are past their prime, but I don't think a 34 yo flyhalf with no knees is up to the standards.
Maybe Brive..

 

[TRF_heineken]

Hey hey! You Frenchies need to stop hijacking threads and turn it into a melodramatic Top14 thread!!!

This thread is about players, alcohol, and getting into trouble... And 2 of those things are not synonymous with French Rugby...

 

[Big Ewis]

true, apologies to the forum but we don't mean to spread our business around, it just happens spontaneously and we don't have an intention of making it a long talk. It just pops up...POP..PO-OP !!...anybody watches Community ? I thought it used to be funny and then was alright in the later seasons, but then eventually turned formulaic and was defeated by its own game. Furthermore, I think....

 

[Jaguares]

 

[FrenchFan]

Hey hey! You Frenchies need to stop hijacking threads and turn it into a melodramatic Top14 thread!!!

This thread is about players, alcohol, and getting into trouble... And 2 of those things are not synonymous with French Rugby...

players, alcohol, and getting into trouble?...oh yes it is ..throw in a few women as well.

 

[Icemn]

players, alcohol, and getting into trouble?...oh yes it is ..throw in a few women as well.

...and that is only in the dressing room half time...

 

[Jaguares]

 

[nickdnz]

yeah I remember that of course, but Carter will be about 47 by that time with 7 children and 4 ex-wives. Possibly a drug addiction by then too...almost completely bald, and more injuries added to the old carcass. I think Boudjellal has somebody else in mind. Or maybe he'll modify that Fantastic Four concept, it was just smt to feed the media at the time...I don't think Dan Carter, Toulon may pick up guys from the SH who are past their prime, but I don't think a 34 yo flyhalf with no knees is up to the standards.
Maybe Brive..

Well he's still the best 1st 5/8th of all time and probably the best one in the world when fit. Pretty sure any player who isn't on permanently on life support, is up to Top 14 standard, particularly if they're not French.

Matt Giteau is one year younger. Wilkinson was 35 when he retired.

In fact if you look at Toulon's roster:

Sebastian Bruno 40, Chris Masoe 35, Gerhard Vosloo 35, Bakkies Botha 35, Juan Smith 33, Carl Hayman 34, Ali Williams 33, Juan Martin Hernandez 32, Jozelino Suta 31, Martin Castrogiovanni 32, Freddy Michalak 31, Matt Giteau 31, Bryan Habana 31, Jocelino Suta 31, Nicolas Durand 31, Michael Classens 31, Drew Mitchell 30, Rudi Wulf 30, Mamuka Gorgodze 30, Fabien Barcella 30.

At least half their squad is in their 30's, and many players such as Juan Smith, Ali Williams and Juan Martin Hernandez have all had reasonably serious injury problems.

 

[FrenchFan]

yeah I remember that of course, but Carter will be about 47 by that time with 7 children and 4 ex-wives. Possibly a drug addiction by then too...almost completely bald, and more injuries added to the old carcass. I think Boudjellal has somebody else in mind. Or maybe he'll modify that Fantastic Four concept, it was just smt to feed the media at the time...I don't think Dan Carter, Toulon may pick up guys from the SH who are past their prime, but I don't think a 34 yo flyhalf with no knees is up to the standards.
Maybe Brive..

no problem for the 4 wives. Toulon is practicaly Muslim territory. He'll fit right in there. And he can have more wives.

Even with a zimmer frame they'll take him. Imagine the damage you could do in a ruck with a zimmer frame...

 

[Big Ewis]

well whether he's the best 10 of all-time is entirely irrelevant here of course, also that Toulon are very old. Forwards are one thing, a flyhalf another. Wilko may've been old when he quit but he had a lot of help (perfect chemistry with Giteau at first center and Tilous-Bordes at 9) and was so perfectly seated in his throne and had played for Toulon for so long...
Bringing in Dan Carter at 35 would be a bit ridiculous. Maybe he's got insane longevity and looks after himself exceptionally well and will show a second wind in his career and his injuries won't pull him back too much then, yes, that's mathematically possible. It isn't IMpossible. But I doubt, with the info I currently possess, Toulon would go for an old Carter when they'll have so much to pick from, and with the sort of money and attractiveness they have..

I think it's quite possible he'll come to France again after the RWC, but I don't think Toulon. Unless he's still in excellent form ? Why not. But I'd see him in one of those other clubs. George Smith was once considered one of the best flankers in the world, or THE best, one of the best Wallabies ever, or even players overall ever...and now he's in Lyon, which just got promoted to Top 14 this year, and 35yo. Fairplay.

no problem for the 4 wives. Toulon is practicaly Muslim territory. He'll fit right in there. And he can have more wives.

Even with a zimmer frame they'll take him. Imagine the damage you could do in a ruck with a zimmer frame...

:lol: that is a good point, you know..

 

[nickdnz]

I think it's quite possible he'll come to France again after the RWC, but I don't think Toulon. Unless he's still in excellent form ? Why not. But I'd see him in one of those other clubs. George Smith was once considered one of the best flankers in the world, or THE best, one of the best Wallabies ever, or even players overall ever...and now he's in Lyon, which just got promoted to Top 14 this year, and 35yo. Fairplay.

Right, Lyon. Over the past two years he's been playing for Stade Francais, Suntory Sun Goliath, Brumbies, Australia and Lyon. He's on a deal with Suntory which makes him Australia's highest paid player, while playing for other clubs in the off season. I think if you took the time to look into George Smith's situation, you'd find he is doing very well for himself. I would be very surprised if Daniel Carter isn't offered a deal in the Top 14 that would make him one of the highest paid players in the world. Either that or he goes to Japan, he's technically won the Top 14 anyway

 

[FrenchFan]

well whether he's the best 10 of all-time is entirely irrelevant here of course, also that Toulon are very old. Forwards are one thing, a flyhalf another. Wilko may've been old when he quit but he had a lot of help (perfect chemistry with Giteau at first center and Tilous-Bordes at 9) and was so perfectly seated in his throne and had played for Toulon for so long...
Bringing in Dan Carter at 35 would be a bit ridiculous. Maybe he's got insane longevity and looks after himself exceptionally well and will show a second wind in his career and his injuries won't pull him back too much then, yes, that's mathematically possible. It isn't IMpossible. But I doubt, with the info I currently possess, Toulon would go for an old Carter when they'll have so much to pick from, and with the sort of money and attractiveness they have..

I think it's quite possible he'll come to France again after the RWC, but I don't think Toulon. Unless he's still in excellent form ? Why not. But I'd see him in one of those other clubs. George Smith was once considered one of the best flankers in the world, or THE best, one of the best Wallabies ever, or even players overall ever...and now he's in Lyon, which just got promoted to Top 14 this year, and 35yo. Fairplay.



:lol: that is a good point, you know..

we'll become the Zimmer Frame league of Rugby Union

after the Top Tired we'll get the Top Retired :lol:

 

[Big Ewis]

we'll become the Zimmer Frame league of Rugby Union

after the Top Tired we'll get the Top Retired :lol:

haha ! En forme Monsieur !!

nick: I don't know who you're replying to. No mention of money anywhere from me...just saying Smith plays for a relatively small club, and at 35yo it's okay. Top 14 doesn't have a BAD team per se, every team is genuinely competitive. If Carter gets a good salary in 1.5 years, good...good for him..I guess ?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I have never been a fan of Hansen, mostly because he used to have this smug look of entitlement on his face.

But recently I have grown to like him, and I have the utmost respect for him. He doesn't take any nonsense from anyone, and he tells it like it is, no beating around the bush.

A decision like this is necessary, and you have to applaud the coaching team for enforcing the rules within the team protocols.

I concur with this.